For the off season the mega poll(s), it will be “who is the best current or active Sprint Cup Driver

[Greg]

For the off season the mega poll(s), it will be “who is the best current or active Sprint Cup Driver?”

This will work very much like last year’s contest “who is the best sprint cup driver ever?” where David Pearson was chosen as the greatest of all times by the Race Forums members.

This is a semi serious contest, obviously many will vote for the favorites regardless of facts. But this can be fun and even informative as we consider different careers.

There will be at least 32 of the most active drivers to choose from, the final 16 will be paired up against each other in one on one elimination rounds until we have a winner.

I hope as many as possible will participate.

There will be more explanations in this thread to explain the matchups etc…..

 

[racer8]

This sounds like fun.

 

[Greg]

The drivers will be seeded the using, following four statistics averaged together:

-total wins
-win percentage
-Sprint Cup championships
-Championship rate (the percentage or ratio of titles compared to the number of races entered)

This will recognize total winning achievements over an extended period ex. Jeff Gordons leading win count, Johnsons leading amount of titles. But it will also index some of the younger drivers rapid rise among the ranks in a short period of time, ex Brads title in just his third season.

I will be doing this over the next few days, don't worry if the driver you think is best isn't rated as the number one seed. It is merely a tool or a point of reference for me to set up the polls.

For the purpose of this contest the best driver will be chosen by the results of the polls, again the initial seeds are just a starting point.

Again I am hoping for lots of participation and I hoping lots of people will contribute their thoughts and perspectives.
If you feel strongly about drivers talent, make that case.

Like last year's polls this can be a journey were we can respect the drivers and celebrate their careers.

 

[Greg]

Rank * Driver * win total * Starts * win percentage
1 * Gordon, Jeff * 87 wins, 689 starts, 12.627% win %
2 * Johnson, Jimmie * 60 wins, 399 starts, 15.038% win %
3 * Stewart, Tony * 47 wins, 500 starts, 9.400% win %
4 * Martin, Mark * 40 wins, 854 starts, 4.684% win %
5 * Busch, Kurt * 24 wins, 435 starts, 5.517% win %
6 * Busch, Kyle * 24 wins, 293 starts, 8.191% win %
7 * Kenseth, Matt * 24 wins, 472 starts, 5.085% win %
8 * Hamlin, Denny * 22 wins, 259 starts, 8.494% win %
9 * Labonte, Bobby * 21 wins, 690 starts, 3.043% win %
10 * Burton, Jeff * 21 wins, 655 starts, 3.206% win %
11 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 19 wins, 469 starts, 4.051% win %
12 * Edwards, Carl * 19 wins, 301 starts, 6.312% win %
13 * Harvick, Kevin * 19 wins, 430 starts, 4.419% win %
14 * Biffle, Greg * 18 wins, 366 starts, 4.918% win %
15 * Newman, Ryan * 16 wins, 404 starts, 3.960% win %
16 * Kahne, Kasey * 14 wins, 324 starts, 4.321% win %
17 * Keselowski, Brad * 9 wins, 125 starts, 7.200% win %
18 * Bowyer, Clint * 8 wins, 253 starts, 3.162% win %
19 * McMurray, Jamie * 6 wins, 366 starts, 1.639% win %
20 * Waltrip, Michael * 4 wins, 771 starts, 0.519% win %
21 * Schrader, Ken * 4 wins, 753 starts, 0.531% win %
22 * Nemechek, Joe * 4 wins, 619 starts, 0.646% win %
23 * Sadler, Elliott * 3 wins, 431 starts, 0.696% win %
24 * Gordon, Robby * 3 wins, 397 starts, 0.756% win %
25 * Vickers, Brian * 2 wins, 264 starts, 0.758% win %
26 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 2 wins, 217 starts, 0.922% win %
27 * Reutimann, David * 2 wins, 196 starts, 1.020% win %
28 * Ambrose, Marcos * 2 wins, 155 starts, 1.290% win %
29 * Logano, Joey * 2 wins, 147 starts, 1.361% win %
30 * Mears, Casey * 1 wins, 344 starts, 0.291% win %
31 * Truex Jr., Martin * 1 wins, 261 starts, 0.383% win %
32 * Menard, Paul * 1 wins, 219 starts, 0.457% win %
33 * Ragan, David * 1 wins, 218 starts, 0.459% win %
34 * Smith, Regan * 1 wins, 165 starts, 0.606% win %
35 * Bayne, Trevor * 1 wins, 34 starts, 2.941% win %

 

[Greg]

Rank * Driver * win percentage
1 * Johnson, Jimmie * 15.038% win %
2 * Gordon, Jeff * 12.627% win %
3 * Stewart, Tony * 9.400% win %
4 * Hamlin, Denny * 8.494% win %
5 * Busch, Kyle * 8.191% win %
6 * Keselowski, Brad * 7.200% win %
7 * Edwards, Carl * 6.312% win %
8 * Busch, Kurt * 5.517% win %
9 * Kenseth, Matt * 5.085% win %
10 * Biffle, Greg * 4.918% win %
11 * Martin, Mark * 4.684% win %
12 * Harvick, Kevin * 4.419% win %
13 * Kahne, Kasey * 4.321% win %
14 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 4.051% win %
15 * Newman, Ryan * 3.960% win %
16 * Burton, Jeff * 3.206% win %
17 * Bowyer, Clint * 3.162% win %
18 * Labonte, Bobby * 3.043% win %
19 * Bayne, Trevor * 2.941% win %
20 * McMurray, Jamie * 1.639% win %
21 * Logano, Joey * 1.361% win %
22 * Ambrose, Marcos * 1.290% win %
23 * Reutimann, David * 1.020% win %
24 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 0.922% win %
25 * Vickers, Brian * 0.758% win %
26 * Gordon, Robby * 0.756% win %
27 * Sadler, Elliott * 0.696% win %
28 * Nemechek, Joe * 0.646% win %
29 * Smith, Regan * 0.606% win %
30 * Schrader, Ken * 0.531% win %
31 * Waltrip, Michael * 0.519% win %
32 * Ragan, David * 0.459% win %
33 * Menard, Paul * 0.457% win %
34 * Truex Jr., Martin * 0.383% win %
35 * Mears, Casey * 0.291% win %

 

[Greg]

The previous two posts may seem like insane nerdness, and that is probably right, but I will use it to seed the drivers. Half of the data is posted above; I will use a similar method to rate the drivers on championships. Afterwards I will average them up, and devise the poll matchups accordingly, but that will have to wait until tomorrow.

The highest seeds will be polled against the lowest.

 

[Greg]

Bill Elliot and Terry Labonte will not be part of these polls. I realize they still make a few occasional starts, but there biggest racing moments are gone and I do not believe we can evaluate them in terms of an active status. This is not meant to disrespect them, they are future Hall of Famers, but again I want the polls restricted to current and active drivers.

There are others with advance ages racing, but they are still running most races on the schedule.

 

[ted@economy]

The first ranking is a bit of a shocker , but the second ,on win percentage, is very interesting.

 

[FenderBumper]

The drivers will be seeded the using, following four statistics averaged together:

-total wins
-win percentage
-Sprint Cup championships
-Championship rate (the percentage or ratio of titles compared to the number of races entered)

Using full career stats will make JJ an easy choice. If you define 'current' as 3 years and use just those stats, things could get interesting.

 

[Greg]

Using full career stats will make JJ an easy choice. If you define 'current' as 3 years and use just those stats, things could get interesting.

It will be up to each person to determine their own personal definition of current or active, that can be very recent, or an entire current career.
The stats aren't meant to be the only consideration, a voters intuition should be huge. I am using them intensively for the seeding to set up the polls fairly, and hopefully the final match ups will pit the best drivers against each other.

The nerd like approach is also an effort to be objective as possible. I don't want any surprise rules, and I want to be transparent.

 

[robbybee]

COOL!

Let the off-season driver bashing commence!!

I'm gonna vote for Pee Wee whenever I get the chance. I'm just sayin...

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Looks like fun.

 

[Greg]

Drivers are rated here by the best point finishing positions, based only on finishing in top 10
in points. For ties their next best season breaks the tie.
Drivers who have never finished in the top 10 points are rated by their career average finish.

Rank * Driver * results
1 * Johnson, Jimmie * 5 time Champion
2 * Gordon, Jeff * 4 time Champion
3 * Stewart, Tony * 3 time Champion
4 * Kenseth, Matt * 2003 Champion, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th,7th, 7th, 8th,8th
5 * Labonte, Bobby * 2000 Champion, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th
6 * Busch, Kurt * 2004 Champion, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th
7 * Keselowski, Brad * 2012 Champion and another 5th
8 * Martin, Mark * 2nd 6 times
9 * Edwards, Carl * 2nd,2nd, 3rd, 4th,9th
10 * Biffle, Greg * 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th
11 * Hamlin, Denny * 2nd,3rd,5th, 6th, 8th, 9th
12 * Bowyer, Clint * 2nd ,3rd,5th
13 * Harvick, Kevin * 3rd,3rd, 4th, 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th
14 * Burton, Jeff * 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th
15 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th
16 * Schrader, Ken * 4th, 5th, 5th, 9th, 9th, 10th,10th,
17 * Kahne, Kasey * 4th, 8th
18 * Busch, Kyle * 5th, 8th
19 * Newman, Ryan * 6th, 6th, 7th, 9th
20 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 8th
21 * Sadler, Elliott * 9th
The drivers below have never finished in the top 10 in the points. They are ranked by total average finish
22 * Truex Jr., Martin * 18.3 Avg Fin
23 * Logano, Joey * 18.7 Avg Fin
24 * McMurray, Jamie * 19. 4 Avg Fin
25 * Ambrose, Marcos * 20.3 Avg Fin
26 * Vickers, Brian * 20. 4 Avg Fin
27 * Waltrip, Michael * 21.9 Avg Fin
28 * Menard, Paul * 22.0 Avg Fin
29 * Ragan, David * 22.1 Avg. Fin
30 * Reutimann, David * 22.6 Avg Fin
31 * Mears, Casey * 23.5 Avg Fin
32 * Bayne, Trevor * 24.0 Avg Fin
33 * Smith, Regan * 24.7 Avg Fin
34 * Gordon, Robby * 26.5 Avg Fin
35 * Nemechek, Joe * 27.6 Avg. Fin

The numbers were put together manually, if you see an error I will appreciate anyone letting
me know. Details aren't not a strength of mine.

 

[wilson89]

So are we voting on them by current ability or by career acomplishments?

 

[Greg]

So are we voting on them by current ability or by career acomplishments?

Vote on your intution, the above data can be used for reference, but I posted them to help me seed the drivers, it is ok to believe a particular driver is better even without the stats. The goal is to use the early rounds to pit the strong against the weak. By the time we reach the final 16 we will have some good matchups, by the final 8 there will be some great matchups.

As for defination of active I want voters to decide that for themselves. I just provided the terms "Active" and "Current", that can be the last 25 weeks or 25 years, based on a voters disrection.

 

[Greg]

The folkowing is the seed order listed on the far left side, and in order. All of these active drivers have won at least one Sprint Cup Race, recording one win is required to make the polls or contest.

Seed * name * average * total wins * win % * point performance * point /ratios
1 * Johnson, Jimmie * 1.25 * 2 * 1 * 1 * 1
2 * Gordon, Jeff * 2.25 * 1 * 2 * 2 * 4
3 * Stewart, Tony * 3 * 3 * 3 * 3 * 3
4 * Busch, Kurt * 6.25 * 6 * 8 * 6 * 5
5 * Kenseth, Matt * 6.25 * 6 * 9 * 4 * 6
6 * Martin, Mark * 7.75 * 4 * 11 * 8 * 8
7 * Keselowski, Brad * 8 * 17 * 6 * 7 * 2
8 * Hamlin, Denny * 8.5 * 8 * 4 * 11 * 11
9 * Edwards, Carl * 9.25 * 12 * 7 * 9 * 9
10 * Labonte, Bobby * 9.875 * 9.5 * 18 * 5 * 7
11 * Biffle, Greg * 11.5 * 14 * 10 * 10 * 12
12 * Busch, Kyle * 11.75 * 6 * 5 * 18 * 18
13 * Harvick, Kevin * 12.5 * 12 * 12 * 13 * 13
14 * Burton, Jeff * 13.625 * 9.5 * 16 * 14 * 15
15 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 13.75 * 12 * 14 * 15 * 14
16 * Bowyer, Clint * 14.25 * 18 * 17 * 12 * 10
17 * Kahne, Kasey * 16.75 * 16 * 18 * 17 * 16
18 * Newman, Ryan * 17 * 15 * 15 * 19 * 19
19 * Schrader, Ken * 21.25 * 21 * 30 * 17 * 17
20 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 22.5 * 26 * 24 * 20 * 20
21 * Logano, Joey * 25.625 * 26 * 25 * 23 * 28.5
22 * Sadler, Elliott * 22.875 * 22.5 * 27 * 21 * 21
23 * McMurray, Jamie * 24.875 * 19 * 28 * 24 * 28.5
24 * Vickers, Brian * 24.875 * 26 * 19 * 26 * 28.5
25 * Ambrose, Marcos * 25.375 * 26 * 22 * 25 * 28.5
26 * Waltrip, Michael * 25.375 * 21 * 25 * 27 * 28.5
27 * Truex Jr., Martin * 26 * 32.5 * 21 * 22 * 28.5
28 * Reutimann, David * 26.125 * 26 * 20 * 30 * 28.5
29 * Nemechek, Joe * 27.625 * 21 * 26 * 35 * 28.5
30 * Gordon, Robby * 27.75 * 22.5 * 26 * 34 * 28.5
31 * Bayne, Trevor * 28 * 32.5 * 19 * 32 * 28.5
32 * Ragan, David * 28.5 * 32.5 * 20 * 33 * 28.5
33 * Smith, Regan * 29 * 32.5 * 26 * 29 * 28.5
34 * Menard, Paul * 30.5 * 32.5 * 33 * 28 * 28.5
35 * Mears, Casey * 31.75 * 32.5 * 35 * 31 * 28.5

Win percentage is the tie breaker. Kurt Busch and Matt Kenseth average the same overall in the four measurements , Kurt has a better win percentage and is seeded 4th, Kenseth is 5th. There is at least one other tie, and the same tie breaker is used.

 

[klemmabyna]

but greg...the wrong guy won last years poll!!!!

just a heads up for the keslowski fans (you know who you are!), especially any band wagon jumpers ( i might fit here), start preparing your debate! jimmie and jeff fans: how do you overcome the "current" tag greg put on this poll? the tony crew has some history to lean on. and then there are the kyle fanatics who may have talent, but will have to step up for this arguement.

anxiously awaiting the matchups......

 

[ted@economy]

but greg...the wrong guy won last years poll!!!!

just a heads up for the keslowski fans (you know who you are!), especially any band wagon jumpers ( i might fit here), start preparing your debate! jimmie and jeff fans: how do you overcome the "current" tag greg put on this poll? the tony crew has some history to lean on. and then there are the kyle fanatics who may have talent, but will have to step up for this arguement.

anxiously awaiting the matchups......

I agree with what you are saying . The Keslowski people will be pushing the most recent events and because his wins are fresh , he will get more mileage . Kyle could have used a chase win or two to revive his support . I also agree that Bill Elliott should have won the last pole and will be writing the mods over him being left off of this one.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

Uh, what's with the stats for Robby Gordon? I thought this was 'current or active'. Terry Labonte and Bill Elliot started more races over the last two years than he did.

 

[Greg]

Fair enough and my mistake, I will put Terry Labonte and Bill Elliott into the contest, then post the revised seeding order.

 

[ted@economy]

Fair enough and my mistake, I will put Terry Labonte and Bill Elliott into the contest, then post the revised seeding order.

I think the guys were just havin a bit of fun Greg . Terry and Bill are obviously a bit old for this grouping while Robby Gordon is younger and a better fit (in spite of his stats ) . IMO

 

[Greg]

I think the guys were just havin a bit of fun Greg . Terry and Bill are obviously a bit old for this grouping while Robby Gordon is younger and a better fit (in spite of his stats ) . IMO

Too late, my dog is half way through recalculating. When I told him revisions were needed he just kept licking himself, when he doesnt stop to make eye contact it is a always a bad sign. I shall not revisit the point with him, besides this way folks can decide themselves, power to the people.

 

[Greg]

* * Wins * starts *
1 * Gordon, Jeff * 87 * 689 * 12.627%
2 * Johnson, Jimmie * 60 * 399 * 15.038%
3 * Stewart, Tony * 47 * 500 * 9.400%
4 * Elliott, Bill * 44 * 828 * 5.314%
5 * Martin, Mark * 40 * 854 * 4.684%
7 * Busch, Kurt * 24 * 435 * 5.517%
7 * Busch, Kyle * 24 * 293 * 8.191%
7 * Kenseth, Matt * 24 * 472 * 5.085%
9.5 * Hamlin, Denny * 22 * 259 * 8.494%
9.5 * Terry Labonte * 22 * 881 * 2.497%
11.5 * Labonte, Bobby * 21 * 690 * 3.043%
11.5 * Burton, Jeff * 21 * 655 * 3.206%
14 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 19 * 469 * 4.051%
14 * Edwards, Carl * 19 * 301 * 6.312%
14 * Harvick, Kevin * 19 * 430 * 4.419%
16 * Biffle, Greg * 18 * 366 * 4.918%
17 * Newman, Ryan * 16 * 404 * 3.960%
18 * Kahne, Kasey * 14 * 324 * 4.321%
19 * Keselowski, Brad * 9 * 125 * 7.200%
20 * Bowyer, Clint * 8 * 253 * 3.162%
21 * McMurray, Jamie * 6 * 366 * 1.639%
23 * Waltrip, Michael * 4 * 771 * 0.519%
23 * Schrader, Ken * 4 * 753 * 0.531%
23 * Nemechek, Joe * 4 * 619 * 0.646%
25.5 * Sadler, Elliott * 3 * 431 * 0.696%
25.5 * Gordon, Robby * 3 * 397 * 0.756%
29 * Vickers, Brian * 2 * 264 * 0.758%
29 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 2 * 217 * 0.922%
29 * Reutimann, David * 2 * 196 * 1.020%
29 * Ambrose, Marcos * 2 * 155 * 1.290%
29 * Logano, Joey * 2 * 147 * 1.361%
34.5 * Mears, Casey * 1 * 344 * 0.291%
34.5 * Truex Jr., Martin * 1 * 261 * 0.383%
34.5 * Menard, Paul * 1 * 219 * 0.457%
34.5 * Ragan, David * 1 * 218 * 0.459%
34.5 * Smith, Regan * 1 * 165 * 0.606%
34.5 * Bayne, Trevor * 1 * 34 * 2.941%



This is a revision
This post charts the total number of driver wins, it does not consider win percentage.
The number on the left represents one of four numbers I will average for the seeding order
If there were no ties those numbers would go simply 1-37.
Since there are ties the numbers for the tied drivers are averaged, this keeps the total average calibrated.
For example Terry Labonte and Denny Hamlin are tied with 22 wins each, ranked 9th and 10th, both are averged at 9.5

 

[Greg]

Rank * Driver * win percentage
1 * Johnson, Jimmie * 15.038% win %
2 * Gordon, Jeff * 12.627% win %
3 * Stewart, Tony * 9.400% win %
4 * Hamlin, Denny * 8.494% win %
5 * Busch, Kyle * 8.191% win %
6 * Keselowski, Brad * 7.200% win %
7 * Edwards, Carl * 6.312% win %
8 * Busch, Kurt * 5.517% win %
9 * Elliott, Bill * 5.314% win %
10 * Kenseth, Matt * 5.09% win %
11 * Biffle, Greg * 4.92% win %
12 * Martin, Mark * 4.684% win %
13 * Harvick, Kevin * 4.419% win %
14 * Kahne, Kasey * 4.321% win %
15 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 4.051% win %
16 * Newman, Ryan * 3.960% win %
17 * Burton, Jeff * 3.206% win %
18 * Bowyer, Clint * 3.162% win %
19 * Labonte, Bobby * 3.043% win %
20 * Bayne, Trevor * 2.941% win %
21 * Labonte, Terry * 2.497% win %
22 * McMurray, Jamie * 1.639% win %
23 * Logano, Joey * 1.361% win %
24 * Ambrose, Marcos * 1.290% win %
25 * Reutimann, David * 1.020% win %
26 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 0.922% win %
27 * Vickers, Brian * 0.758% win %
28 * Gordon, Robby * 0.756% win %
29 * Sadler, Elliott * 0.696% win %
30 * Nemechek, Joe * 0.646% win %
31 * Smith, Regan * 0.606% win %
32 * Schrader, Ken * 0.531% win %
33 * Waltrip, Michael * 0.519% win %
34 * Ragan, David * 0.459% win %
35 * Menard, Paul * 0.457% win %
36 * Truex Jr., Martin * 0.383% win %
37 * Mears, Casey * 0.291% win %

This is a revision
This post simply tracks each drivers win %. It does not consider who has the most total wins
The number on the left represents the 2nd of four numbers I will average for the seeding order
The highest % is ranked #1, the lowest # 37

 

[ted@economy]

Too late, my dog is half way through recalculating. When I told him revisions were needed he just kept licking himself, when he doesnt stop to make eye contact it is a always a bad sign. I shall not revisit the point with him, besides this way folks can decide themselves, power to the people.

I can see where the dog is comin from . What with Mark Martin in there and all. You tell him Ted says Good Boy.

 

[Greg]

Revison, the 3rd of four numbers used to average for the seeding.
I will complete the seed order Saturday.
The contest will probably begin Sunday night.

Number of
races needed
per title * Driver * results
1 * 79.8 * Johnson, Jimmie * 5 time Champion
2 * 125 * Keselowski, Brad * 2012 Champion and another 5th
3 * 167 * Stewart, Tony * 3 time Champion
4 * 172 * Gordon, Jeff * 4 time Champion
5 * Labonte, Terry * 2 time Champion
6 * Elliott, Bill * 1988 Champion, 2nd, 2nd,2nd,3rd,3rd,4th,4th,6th,8th,8th,8th,10th
7 * 435 * Busch, Kurt * 2004 Champion, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th
8 * 472 * Kenseth, Matt * 2003 Champion, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th,7th, 7th, 8th,8th
9 * 690 * Labonte, Bobby * 2000 Champion, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th
* races needed for each 2nd in points year( 2nd place is the best points finish for these drivers)
10 * 142 * Martin, Mark * 2nd 6 times
11 * 200 * Edwards, Carl * 2nd,2nd, 3rd, 4th,9th
12 * 253 * Bowyer, Clint * 2nd ,3rd,5th
13 * 259 * Hamlin, Denny * 2nd,3rd,5th, 6th, 8th, 9th
14 * 366 * Biffle, Greg * 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th
* races needed for each 3rd in points year
15 * 215 * Harvick, Kevin * 3rd 2times
16 * 469 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th
17 * 655 * Burton, Jeff * 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th
* races needed for each 4th in points year
18 * 324 * Kahne, Kasey * 4th, 8th
19 * 753 * Schrader, Ken * 4th, 5th, 5th, 9th, 9th, 10th,10th,
*
20 * 293 * Busch, Kyle * 5th, 8th
21 * 404 * Newman, Ryan * 6th, 6th, 7th, 9th
22 * 217 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 8th
23 * 431 * Sadler, Elliott * 9th
The drivers below have never finished in the top 10 in the points, so there career average finish is used
24 * 22 * Truex Jr., Martin * 18.3 Avg Fin
25 * 23 * Logano, Joey * 18.7 Avg Fin
26 * 24 * McMurray, Jamie * 19. 4 Avg Fin
27 * 25 * Ambrose, Marcos * 20.3 Avg Fin
28 * 26 * Vickers, Brian * 20. 4 Avg Fin
29 * 27 * Waltrip, Michael * 21.9 Avg Fin
30 * 28 * Menard, Paul * 22.0 Avg Fin
31 * 29 * Ragan, David * 22.1 Avg. Fin
32 * 30 * Reutimann, David * 22.6 Avg Fin
33 * 31 * Mears, Casey * 23.5 Avg Fin
34 * 32 * Bayne, Trevor * 24.0 Avg Fin
35 * 33 * Smith, Regan * 24.7 Avg Fin
36 * 34 * Gordon, Robby * 26.5 Avg Fin
37 * 35 * Nemechek, Joe * 27.6 Avg. Fin

The numbers were put together manually, if you see an error I will appreciate anyone pointing out the error.

 

[Charlie Spencer]

I think the guys were just havin a bit of fun Greg . Terry and Bill are obviously a bit old for this grouping while Robby Gordon is younger and a better fit (in spite of his stats ) . IMO

No, I was actually going for the exact opposite. I agree that Terry and Bill don't belong. I think Robby needs to join them, not the other way around. But since the dog (name?) has already done all the work, more power to the people!

 

[MOEJOE]

Too late, my dog is half way through recalculating. When I told him revisions were needed he just kept licking himself, when he doesnt stop to make eye contact it is a always a bad sign. I shall not revisit the point with him, besides this way folks can decide themselves, power to the people.

That's Phucking Phunny chit right there sunny.

 

[Greg]

Revison, the 3rd of four numbers used to average for the seeding.
I will complete the seed order Saturday.
The contest will probably begin Sunday night.

Number of
races needed
per title * Driver * results
1 * 79.8 * Johnson, Jimmie * 5 time Champion
2 * 125 * Keselowski, Brad * 2012 Champion and another 5th
3 * 167 * Stewart, Tony * 3 time Champion
4 * 172 * Gordon, Jeff * 4 time Champion
5 * Labonte, Terry * 2 time Champion
6 * Elliott, Bill * 1988 Champion, 2nd, 2nd,2nd,3rd,3rd,4th,4th,6th,8th,8th,8th,10th
7 * 435 * Busch, Kurt * 2004 Champion, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th
8 * 472 * Kenseth, Matt * 2003 Champion, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th,7th, 7th, 8th,8th
9 * 690 * Labonte, Bobby * 2000 Champion, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th
* races needed for each 2nd in points year( 2nd place is the best points finish for these drivers)
10 * 142 * Martin, Mark * 2nd 6 times
11 * 200 * Edwards, Carl * 2nd,2nd, 3rd, 4th,9th
12 * 253 * Bowyer, Clint * 2nd ,3rd,5th
13 * 259 * Hamlin, Denny * 2nd,3rd,5th, 6th, 8th, 9th
14 * 366 * Biffle, Greg * 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th
* races needed for each 3rd in points year
15 * 215 * Harvick, Kevin * 3rd 2times
16 * 469 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th
17 * 655 * Burton, Jeff * 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th
* races needed for each 4th in points year
18 * 324 * Kahne, Kasey * 4th, 8th
19 * 753 * Schrader, Ken * 4th, 5th, 5th, 9th, 9th, 10th,10th,
*
20 * 293 * Busch, Kyle * 5th, 8th
21 * 404 * Newman, Ryan * 6th, 6th, 7th, 9th
22 * 217 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 8th
23 * 431 * Sadler, Elliott * 9th
The drivers below have never finished in the top 10 in the points, so there career average finish is used
24 * 22 * Truex Jr., Martin * 18.3 Avg Fin
25 * 23 * Logano, Joey * 18.7 Avg Fin
26 * 24 * McMurray, Jamie * 19. 4 Avg Fin
27 * 25 * Ambrose, Marcos * 20.3 Avg Fin
28 * 26 * Vickers, Brian * 20. 4 Avg Fin
29 * 27 * Waltrip, Michael * 21.9 Avg Fin
30 * 28 * Menard, Paul * 22.0 Avg Fin
31 * 29 * Ragan, David * 22.1 Avg. Fin
32 * 30 * Reutimann, David * 22.6 Avg Fin
33 * 31 * Mears, Casey * 23.5 Avg Fin
34 * 32 * Bayne, Trevor * 24.0 Avg Fin
35 * 33 * Smith, Regan * 24.7 Avg Fin
36 * 34 * Gordon, Robby * 26.5 Avg Fin
37 * 35 * Nemechek, Joe * 27.6 Avg. Fin

The numbers were put together manually, if you see an error I will appreciate anyone pointing out the error.

The Revisons are becoming emabarrassing but note the following one among the drivers who have won a title.
I forgot to consider the ratios of titles per races started for Labonte and Elliott the correction is posted below.
The rest is unchanged.

Number of
races needed
per title * Driver * results
1 * 79.8 * Johnson, Jimmie * 5 time Champion
2 * 125 * Keselowski, Brad * 2012 Champion and another 5th
3 * 167 * Stewart, Tony * 3 time Champion
4 * 172 * Gordon, Jeff * 4 time Champion
5 * 411 Labonte, Terry * 2 time Champion
6 * 435 * Busch, Kurt * 2004 Champion, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th
7 * 472 * Kenseth, Matt * 2003 Champion, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th,7th, 7th, 8th,8th
8 * 690 * Labonte, Bobby * 2000 Champion, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th
9 * 828 Elliott, Bill * 1988 Champion, 2nd, 2nd,2nd,3rd,3rd,4th,4th,6th,8th,8th,8th,10th
* races needed for each 2nd in points year( 2nd place is the best points finish for these drivers)
10 * 142 * Martin, Mark * 2nd 6 times
11 * 200 * Edwards, Carl * 2nd,2nd, 3rd, 4th,9th
12 * 253 * Bowyer, Clint * 2nd ,3rd,5th
13 * 259 * Hamlin, Denny * 2nd,3rd,5th, 6th, 8th, 9th
14 * 366 * Biffle, Greg * 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th
* races needed for each 3rd in points year
15 * 215 * Harvick, Kevin * 3rd 2times
16 * 469 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th
17 * 655 * Burton, Jeff * 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th
* races needed for each 4th in points year
18 * 324 * Kahne, Kasey * 4th, 8th
19 * 753 * Schrader, Ken * 4th, 5th, 5th, 9th, 9th, 10th,10th,
*
20 * 293 * Busch, Kyle * 5th, 8th
21 * 404 * Newman, Ryan * 6th, 6th, 7th, 9th
22 * 217 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 8th
23 * 431 * Sadler, Elliott * 9th
The drivers below have never finished in the top 10 in the points, so there career average finish is used
24 * 22 * Truex Jr., Martin * 18.3 Avg Fin
25 * 23 * Logano, Joey * 18.7 Avg Fin
26 * 24 * McMurray, Jamie * 19. 4 Avg Fin
27 * 25 * Ambrose, Marcos * 20.3 Avg Fin
28 * 26 * Vickers, Brian * 20. 4 Avg Fin
29 * 27 * Waltrip, Michael * 21.9 Avg Fin
30 * 28 * Menard, Paul * 22.0 Avg Fin
31 * 29 * Ragan, David * 22.1 Avg. Fin
32 * 30 * Reutimann, David * 22.6 Avg Fin
33 * 31 * Mears, Casey * 23.5 Avg Fin
34 * 32 * Bayne, Trevor * 24.0 Avg Fin
35 * 33 * Smith, Regan * 24.7 Avg Fin
36 * 34 * Gordon, Robby * 26.5 Avg Fin
37 * 35 * Nemechek, Joe * 27.6 Avg. Fin

 

[Greg]

Driver * results
1 * Johnson, Jimmie * 5 time Champion
2 * Gordon, Jeff * 4 time Champion
3 * Stewart, Tony * 3 time Champion
4 * Labonte, Terry * 2 time Champion
5 * Elliott, Bill * 1988 Champion, 2nd, 2nd,2nd,3rd,3rd,4th,4th,6th,8th,8th,8th,10th
Elliott, Bill with the most 2nds gets tie breaker over the others with one championship.
6 * Kenseth, Matt * 2003 Champion, 2nd, 4th, 4th, 5th,7th, 7th, 8th,8th
7 * Labonte, Bobby * 2000 Champion, 2nd, 6th, 6th, 7th, 8th, and 10th
8 * Busch, Kurt * 2004 Champion, 3rd, 4th, 7th, 10th
9 * Keselowski, Brad * 2012 Champion and another 5th
10 * Martin, Mark * 2nd 6 times
11 * Edwards, Carl * 2nd,2nd, 3rd, 4th,9th
12 * Biffle, Greg * 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th
13 * Hamlin, Denny * 2nd,3rd,5th, 6th, 8th, 9th
14 * Bowyer, Clint * 2nd ,3rd,5th
15 * Harvick, Kevin * 3rd 2times
16 * Burton, Jeff * 3rd, 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th
17 * Earnhardt, Dale Jr. * 3rd, 5th, 5th, 7th, 8th
18 * Kahne, Kasey * 4th, 8th
19 * Schrader, Ken * 4th, 5th, 5th, 9th, 9th, 10th,10th,
20 * Busch, Kyle * 5th, 8th
21 * Newman, Ryan * 6th, 6th, 7th, 9th
22 * Montoya, Juan Pablo * 8th
23 * Sadler, Elliott * 9th
The drivers below have never finished in the top 10 in the points, so there career average finish is used
24 * Truex Jr., Martin * 18.3 Avg Fin
25 * Logano, Joey * 18.7 Avg Fin
26 * McMurray, Jamie * 19. 4 Avg Fin
27 * Ambrose, Marcos * 20.3 Avg Fin
28 * Vickers, Brian * 20. 4 Avg Fin
29 * Waltrip, Michael * 21.9 Avg Fin
30 * Menard, Paul * 22.0 Avg Fin
31 * Ragan, David * 22.1 Avg. Fin
32 * Reutimann, David * 22.6 Avg Fin
33 * Mears, Casey * 23.5 Avg Fin
34 * Bayne, Trevor * 24.0 Avg Fin
35 * Smith, Regan * 24.7 Avg Fin
36 * Gordon, Robby * 26.5 Avg Fin
37 * Nemechek, Joe * 27.6 Avg. Fin

Finally the fourth of four items I will average to determine the seeding.
These list point performance.
Drivers with the most titles are ranked best, when two drivers are tied the one with the most 2nds get the
tiebreaker, then the most thirds etc…
Drivers who have never finished top 10 in points are ranked the lowest, and seeded by their career average finish.

 

[Greg]

Finally after a lot of pomp here is the seeding order that will be used to establish the polls.

Average * * wins * win % * point ratio * Points
1 1.25 * Jimmie Johnson * 2 * 1 * 1 * 1
2 2.25 * Jeff, Gordon * 1 * 2 * 4 * 2
3 3 * Tony Stewart * 3 * 3 * 3 * 3
4 6.75 * Bill Elliott * 4 * 9 * 9 * 5
5 7.25 * Kurt Busch * 7 * 8 * 6 * 8
6 7.5 * Matt Kenseth * 7 * 10 * 7 * 6
7 9 * Brad Keselowski * 19 * 6 * 2 * 9
8 9.25 * Mark Martin * 5 * 12 * 10 * 10
9 9.875 * Denny Hamlin * 9.5 * 4 * 13 * 13
10 9.875 * Terry Labonte * 9.5 * 21 * 5 * 4
11 10.75 * Carl Edwards * 14 * 7 * 11 * 11
12 11.375 * Bobby Labonte * 11.5 * 19 * 8 * 7
13 13 * Kyle Busch * 7 * 5 * 20 * 20
14 13.25 * Greg Biffle * 16 * 11 * 14 * 12
15 14.25 * Kevin Harvick * 14 * 13 * 15 * 15
16 15.5 * Dale Earnhardt Jr * 14 * 15 * 16 * 17
17 16 * Jeff Burton * 14 * 17 * 17 * 16
18 16 * Clint Bowyer * 20 * 18 * 12 * 14
19 17 * Kasey Kahne * 18 * 14 * 18 * 18
20 18.75 * Ryan Newman * 17 * 16 * 21 * 21
21 23.25 * Ken Schrader * 23 * 32 * 19 * 19
22 23.75 * Jamine McMurray * 21 * 22 * 26 * 26
23 24.75 * Juan Pablo Montoya * 29 * 26 * 22 * 22
24 25.125 * Elliot Sadler * 25.5 * 29 * 23 * 23
25 25.5 * Joey Lagano * 29 * 23 * 25 * 25
26 26.75 * Marcos Ambrose * 29 * 24 * 27 * 27
27 28 * Brian Vickers * 29 * 27 * 28 * 28
28 28.5 * Michael Waltrip * 23 * 33 * 29 * 29
29 29.5 * David Reutimann * 29 * 25 * 32 * 32
30 29.625 * Martin Truex Jr * 34.5 * 36 * 24 * 24
31 30.625 * Trevor Bayne * 34.5 * 20 * 34 * 34
32 31.375 * Robby Gordon * 25.5 * 28 * 36 * 36
33 31.75 * Joe Nemechek * 23 * 30 * 37 * 37
34 32.375 * Paul Menard * 34.5 * 35 * 30 * 30
35 32.625 * David Ragan * 34.5 * 34 * 31 * 31
36 33.875 * Regan Smith * 34.5 * 31 * 35 * 35
37 34.375 * Casey Mears * 34.5 * 37 * 33 * 33

 

[Greg]

The following is the Seed Order

* * Average * wins * win % * point ratio * Points
1 * Jimmie Johnson * 1.25 * 2 * 1 * 1 * 1
2 * Jeff, Gordon * 2.25 * 1 * 2 * 4 * 2
3 * Tony Stewart * 3 * 3 * 3 * 3 * 3
4 * Bill Elliott * 6.75 * 4 * 9 * 9 * 5
5 * Kurt Busch * 7.25 * 7 * 8 * 6 * 8
6 * Matt Kenseth * 7.5 * 7 * 10 * 7 * 6
7 * Brad Keselowski * 9 * 19 * 6 * 2 * 9
8 * Mark Martin * 9.25 * 5 * 12 * 10 * 10
9 * Denny Hamlin * 9.875 * 9.5 * 4 * 13 * 13
10 * Terry Labonte * 9.875 * 9.5 * 21 * 5 * 4
11 * Carl Edwards * 10.75 * 14 * 7 * 11 * 11
12 * Bobby Labonte * 11.375 * 11.5 * 19 * 8 * 7
13 * Kyle Busch * 13 * 7 * 5 * 20 * 20
14 * Greg Biffle * 13.25 * 16 * 11 * 14 * 12
15 * Kevin Harvick * 14.25 * 14 * 13 * 15 * 15
16 * Dale Earnhardt Jr * 15.5 * 14 * 15 * 16 * 17
17 * Jeff Burton * 16 * 14 * 17 * 17 * 16
18 * Clint Bowyer * 16 * 20 * 18 * 12 * 14
19 * Kasey Kahne * 17 * 18 * 14 * 18 * 18
20 * Ryan Newman * 18.75 * 17 * 16 * 21 * 21
21 * Ken Schrader * 23.25 * 23 * 32 * 19 * 19
22 * Jamine McMurray * 23.75 * 21 * 22 * 26 * 26
23 * Juan Pablo Montoya * 24.75 * 29 * 26 * 22 * 22
24 * Elliot Sadler * 25.125 * 25.5 * 29 * 23 * 23
25 * Joey Lagano * 25.5 * 29 * 23 * 25 * 25
26 * Marcos Ambrose * 26.75 * 29 * 24 * 27 * 27
27 * Brian Vickers * 28 * 29 * 27 * 28 * 28
28 * Michael Waltrip * 28.5 * 23 * 33 * 29 * 29
29 * David Reutimann * 29.5 * 29 * 25 * 32 * 32
30 * Martin Truex Jr * 29.625 * 34.5 * 36 * 24 * 24
31 * Trevor Bayne * 30.625 * 34.5 * 20 * 34 * 34
32 * Robby Gordon * 31.375 * 25.5 * 28 * 36 * 36
33 * Joe Nemechek * 31.75 * 23 * 30 * 37 * 37
34 * Paul Menard * 32.375 * 34.5 * 35 * 30 * 30
35 * David Ragan * 32.625 * 34.5 * 34 * 31 * 31
36 * Regan Smith * 33.875 * 34.5 * 31 * 35 * 35
37 * Casey Mears * 34.375 * 34.5 * 37 * 33 * 33

 

[Greg]

The first round will trim the list down to 16 drivers
the matchups will be contested according to the seed order
if there are no ties this round will eliminate 21 drivers.

This round will be hit and miss, there are some good matchups and some snoozers
Your patience is needed, and appreciated this round is necessary to arrive to a final 16.
The final 16 match ups will be better.
round 1
1.1 16 vs. 17 vs. 24 vs. 31
1.2 15 vs. 18 vs. 25 vs. 32
1.3 14 vs. 19 vs. 26 vs. 33
1.4 13 vs. 20 vs. 27 vs. 34
1.5 12 vs. 21 vs. 28 vs. 35
1.6 11 vs. 22 vs. 29 vs. 36
1.7 10 vs. 23 vs. 30 vs. 37

round 1
1.1 *Dale Jr,Jeff Burton, Elliott Sadler, Trevor Bayne
1.2 *Harvick,Bowyer,Lagano, Robby Gordon
1.3 *Biffle, Kahne, Ambrose, Nemecheck
1.4 *Kyle Busch, Newman, Vickers, Menard
1.5 *Bobby Labonte,Ken Schrader,Micheal Waltrip,David Ragan
1.6 *Edwards,McMurray, Reutimann, R.Smith
1.7 *Terry Labonte, Montoya, Truex Jr, Casey Mears

 

[MOEJOE]

Greg, if I dropped a box of matches on the ground, could you count them in like 4 seconds? If you had that dog with you?

Too late, my dog is half way through recalculating. When I told him revisions were needed he just kept licking himself, when he doesnt stop to make eye contact it is a always a bad sign. I shall not revisit the point with him, besides this way folks can decide themselves, power to the people.

 

[Greg]

Greg, if I dropped a box of matches on the ground, could you count them in like 4 seconds? If you had that dog with you?

Will need to ask him first, and the first poll is fixing to be posted

 

[Greg]

Regarding the terms CURRENT and ACTIVE, I am expecting people to define them subjectively. That's fine with me and even if I wanted to, there is no way I could stop them. I also as the creator of these threads do not want to apply a strict legalistic definition. I also am trying to be careful not impose my own subjective bias, each person has the freedom or liberty to decide themselves.
However, I will explain my definition as long as it is understood that this is just the thoughts of another forum member. Should anyone disagree, I still hope they will participate on these threads using there own good judgement.

Here goes: As a longer driver is still fast and capable of winning I would consider them as current. Stats are good and provide some direction, but they are not the total sum of a driver, so intuition and good discernment is needed. I also believe the driver who performed the best does not always win. I would simply vote for the driver that his impressed me the most with his driving performance.
Again this is just my idea, no one else has to agree.

I would consider almost everyone as current except for : Terry Labonte, Bill Elliott, and Robby Gordon. But they are still here and anyone should be able to vote for them without apology.

Now on to bigger questions if I was voting between Jeff Gordon, Jimmie Johnson and Brad Keselowski, I would vote for Gordon of the mid 90s, or JJ 2005 to 2010, or Brads last three years. All three can still win and dominate at times. The one who impressed me most at the best stages would get my vote.

 

[ted@economy]

Harvick v/s Bowyer ...oooh interesting . What have you done for me lately?