FOX Kills NASCAR appeal

E

Eagle1

Guest
This is a pretty good article. Guess it's not just many of us fans that think this.

The Ledger.com

Published Thursday, July 8, 2004

FOX Kills NASCAR's Appeal

Somehow, some way, Fox never got the message. Fox television ended its NASCAR season Saturday with the telecast of Daytona's rain-delayed Pepsi 400, and NBC now takes over for the rest of the year.

Frankly, that's got to be an improvement.

When the networks picked up NASCAR in 2000, it was supposed to mark the beginning of a new era.

The contract appeared to signify acceptance of stock car racing as a potential mainstream sport, not just a southern regional phenomenon.

For years, NASCAR has been fighting to rid itself of that label, to get the message out that it isn't just a bunch of good ol' boys banging fenders on a Sunday afternoon.

But labels are hard to remove, and that's still how an awful lot of people picture NASCAR.

Now, there was a real chance to change that. NASCAR would be treated like the NFL or baseball, presented professionally.

Unfortunately, that went right by Fox. It hired a crew of good ol' boys to do the telecasts, treated NASCAR like it was about on a level with professional wrestling, and perpetuated the image most outsiders have of the sport.

Clearly, Fox execs see NASCAR the way it was 40 or 50 years ago, not the way it is now.

And just as clearly, they have no respect for the majority of its fans, who expect the broadcast crew to give them information, not play video games with baseball caps worn backwards.

That is typical of the Fox approach, which seems more intent on making stars out of its announcers than covering the stars on the track.

It's like putting John Madden in a leather helmet and having him expound on football before they invented the forward pass, ignoring the fact that Peyton Manning has just thrown for five touchdowns in the second half.

How long would NFL fans put up with that?

And it's not like Fox couldn't find something meaningful to talk about. If you've ever been close to NASCAR, you know that during any given week there are usually a dozen stories bubbling beneath the surface.

But Fox is so preoccupied with doing things that amuse its broadcasters and push them to center stage that it can't be bothered with much that's worthwhile.

Where this is really hurting NASCAR is with the casual fan in the big metro markets who figures he might give racing a try, only to have his suspicions confirmed that it isn't really anything to be taken seriously.

And those are the people who, in the long run, are going to decide if NASCAR makes it as a big-time, legitimate sport.

There is one true professional on Fox, Mike Joy, who is articulate, respects racing and takes it seriously.

But Fox needs to totally change its approach and probably most of its crew, as well.

For openers, its pit reporters could benefit from watching about 100 hours of Chris Economaki on film to see how a real pro works.

Fox has a good group of guys, many of whom have made their mark in the sport, and it isn't about them per se. To steal a line from The Godfather, "It's not personal, it's strictly business."

But just because you can build or drive a race car doesn't, by itself, mean you're qualified to handle a telecast, any more than being able to talk about racing qualifies you to drive or build a race car.

Patrick Zier is a retired sports writer for The Ledger.
 
I agree with a lot of that (especially pertaining to the commentators) but, most people I know prefer the Fox broadcast to the NBC broadcasts. Not because of the broadcast crew ( I can't stand DW or BP) but for how the actual race is shown. I found that NBC gave little coverage to the field outside the top 5-10 aside from the occasional run-downs. The biggest peeve is that whenever something would happen on track to bring out a caution...it would take forever for them to show a replay, and the seemingly constant comercial breaks didn't help either.

In the end, I think both FOX and NBC could, and need to, do a lot to improve.

Lord...please let ABC/ESPN get the rights to broadcast the entire season back when the current contracts expire...please!!!!
 
To tell you the truth, I don't really wish for the old days. I have many races on tape that ESPN/ABC/CBS televised during the "good old days". You rarely saw all the cars in the field during the race, the pit reporting was not very good, and the announcers rarely talked about anyone running below 15th.
 
Originally posted by TexasRaceLady@Jul 8 2004, 04:29 PM
To tell you the truth, I don't really wish for the old days. I have many races on tape that ESPN/ABC/CBS televised during the "good old days". You rarely saw all the cars in the field during the race, the pit reporting was not very good, and the announcers rarely talked about anyone running below 15th.
And to tell you the truth TRL, I'm not sure how many really remeber the "good old days of ESPN" race coverage other than what they hear about it.

You are totally correct about the coverage and I too have a room full ( well, that is an exageration since I gave most of them away when we moved) of tapes from the "good old days of ESPN". The coverage centered on the top four or five cars and even if there were competition in the back of the pack the only driver they ever watched if out of the out of the top group was Earnhardt.

It truly was as if a driver did not run in the front he was a non entity. The week he ran in the front he was on camera.

Ned Jarrett was always mindful of making comment about his son, Dale. The rest was mediocre at best.

We can all complain but it is better today than yesterday and tomorrow will be better yet.
 
i wish they would offer a pay perview option for those of us that hate commericals, and have jerry punch, and buddy baker doing the broadcast.

let the bashing begin !!
 
The Fox ratings have been down in recent weeks. The FOX crew has lost it. DW needs to go. They need fresh faces that know what they are doing in those jobs.

Maybe Leilani should be put on pit road or in the booth. I would watch more then.

Let's see how NBC does this summer with the Olympics taking center stage on the same network.
 
Originally posted by WideOpenPhoto@Jul 8 2004, 01:51 PM
The FOX crew has lost it. DW needs to go. They need fresh faces that know what they are doing in those jobs.

I couldn't agree with you more. My husband and I always stayed in on Sunday to watch the race but not anymore. Glad to see Fox guys leaving but I cann't stand BP either. I'm sure who worse DW or BP. I think they both should go and have younger guys completely take over.
 
Nascar is full of young guns.... why can't the broadcasters be like the drivers.???????? :headbang:
 
Originally posted by de7xwcc@Jul 8 2004, 05:41 PM
i wish they would offer a pay perview option for those of us that hate commericals, and have jerry punch, and buddy baker doing the broadcast.

let the bashing begin !!
OKAY !!! Here is a little of the bashing you asked for.

Dr. Jerry Punch was a one-man advertisement for Dale Earnhardt !!!! He bragged on him, professed his friendship with him and did everything except genulfect in his general direction when mentioning his name. It rubbed off on Dale Junior at a Bristol race and for me, that was the last straw.

Other than that, Jerry Punch, Mike Joy and Dave DeSpain are good announcers. That is if you can get past the hurried dialogue used by DeSpain.

Doubtful anyone will please us all, but between Hammond, Meyers and Waltrip, it was getting tough to listen and enjoy a race.
Until we hear the announcers from NBC, see what crappy little special effects they offer, I'll reserve judgement.
 
de7xwcc, PAY-TO-VIEW????? Horrors!!!!!!!
Wash your mouth with soap!!!!! LOL
That's a wee bit extreme!!!!!
I like Dr Jerry Punch, Mike Joy, and Dave DeSpain.
I also like Dick Berggren. Once in a while, I do
like to hear the opinions of the different drivers
in the booth just to see and hear a different view point.
I am soooooooooooooooooo sick of DW, I could
scream!!!!! Him and his puppeteer, Larrry Mac.

I am truly praying that NBC/TNT have listened and maybe
even learned a bit from all the FOX bashing.
Maybe we might be pleasantly surprised; although
I do doubt my own statement.
 
imo, they both stink...but let's see if nbc/tnt will at least do a better job of showing replays that don't involved junior or stewart, and that they will realize that when they're about to go to commercials, and they show someone passing the leader, spinning, or hear an announcer yell "SPIN!", it's a good idea to go back to the action instead of the commercial, at least long enough to let us see what's going on.
 
I've been watching these races for a long time and other than the announcers, things have gotten better and better. Yeah, I guess it's gonna be a hard thing to find a crew that everyone will like, but there's more to it than that. As far as the actual racing footage, there hasn't been any better and it does continue to get better and better. However, I do believe that FOX and to some extent, NBC is trying to copy their success in the NFL. I just don't think the format and the way the sport is will make that possible. It would probably be better if FOX just cut about half of their crew and tried to do the same. They'd probably get the same thing done with half the salary and we'd have half as many people to get ticked at. Covering the sport is never going to be easy because of it's very nature. Only at tracks where they run in huge packs can we keep an eye on so many drivers at once, but wouldn't you know it, most of us bitch about those tracks and want the plates taken off. I guess we want our cake and eat it too. I don't want to say that we should be glad that we have what we have, but I do remember those days when not every race was televised. In fact, I remember the days when very few of them were broadcast and trying to even find MRN was hard. Yeah TRL, the good old days weren't really all that good for the stay at home fan.
 
Yes I remember the days when we were glued to the radio insted of the TV, and what a wonder it was when they actually televised a race. And being so thankful for ABC/ESPN for covering the races.

I'll admit I've said I miss the old days of ESPN, but I've rewatched a few of them old races lately and realize as far as camara coverage goes it's never been better than the recent coverage. I just wish they'd stop all this skit and stupidity stuff and cover the races as #1, not what they throw in to fill in between their skits.

Both Whizzer and Buckaroo make very valid points.
 
What I remember most about the "good old days" with ESPN, ABC and TNN was the way Ned Jarrett was the color commentator. Not the announcer and certainly not the star of the show. The cars and drivers on the track were the stars........everyone else was very simply just supporting characters. There to pull the focus to what was going on in the race........the race on the track. Sure FOX and NBC brought a lot of cameras with innovative angles and shots but they have moved away from the real stars and focused on the characters that are supposed to be supporting the show.......they made them the show. And FOX is much worse than NBC. Benny Parsons at least knows he's no longer a driver..........Darrell Waltrip doesn't. So Benny's my man in that two man match up. All in all, I would say the race coverage is better than the old days......the video race coverage. The commentating is another story completely. Kill the mics on the blathering idiots until the announcer asks them a question about something concerning the race.......then kill the mics again after 10 seconds so the race can be covered without the idiotic musings of the clowns in the booth.
 
Originally posted by Eagle1@Jul 8 2004, 10:43 AM
There is one true professional on Fox, Mike Joy, who is articulate, respects racing and takes it seriously.

Totally agree. He is the only pro on that crew. He doesnt do any stupid side skits and other crap that has absolutely nothing to do with Nascar. For example did anyone like myself want to vomit when FOx did that like 10 minute segment on Chris Myers looking for a golf cart. At least when NBC/TNT is under rain delay they interview drivers and show footage of previous races.
 
Originally posted by Whizzer+Jul 8 2004, 11:48 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Whizzer @ Jul 8 2004, 11:48 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--TexasRaceLady@Jul 8 2004, 04:29 PM
To tell you the truth, I don't really wish for the old days.&nbsp; I have many races on tape that ESPN/ABC/CBS televised during the "good old days".&nbsp; You rarely saw all the cars in the field during the race, the pit reporting was not very good, and the announcers rarely talked about anyone running below 15th.
And to tell you the truth TRL, I'm not sure how many really remeber the "good old days of ESPN" race coverage other than what they hear about it.

You are totally correct about the coverage and I too have a room full ( well, that is an exageration since I gave most of them away when we moved) of tapes from the "good old days of ESPN". The coverage centered on the top four or five cars and even if there were competition in the back of the pack the only driver they ever watched if out of the out of the top group was Earnhardt.

It truly was as if a driver did not run in the front he was a non entity. The week he ran in the front he was on camera.

Ned Jarrett was always mindful of making comment about his son, Dale. The rest was mediocre at best.

We can all complain but it is better today than yesterday and tomorrow will be better yet. [/b][/quote]
Ah the good ole ESPN days. I have so many tapes from those days. For the time being and the money they got ESPN did a fair job. I miss the Daytona 500 being on CBS with Ken Squier and Mike Joy. That was a team there. Ken IMO was probably the best commentator Nascars had. I think he worked for TBS too but Im not sure. Its funny how many stations have had Nascar in the last 20 years. Fox NBC CBS TBS TNT FX TNN ABC ESPN. If I missed any please fill in for what I missed.
 
you missed my point dragonlady, nice name by the way.

i said pay perview OPTION for those of us the HATE commericals. i by no means would pay for them all but a good example would be BMS, hell they run a lot of laps during a commerical breaks
 
Originally posted by de7xwcc@Jul 9 2004, 06:59 AM
you missed my point dragonlady, nice name by the way.

i said pay perview OPTION for those of us the HATE commericals. i by no means would pay for them all but a good example would be BMS, hell they run a lot of laps during a commerical breaks
You are not alone. I've often thought that there would be a bigger market than the In-Car they currently have. Which shows commercials on the PPV. I would suggest investing in a TIVO or other DVR. I record the race and start watching about an hour and a half after it starts. That way I can FF thru the commercials, replay some parts and most of the time I still end up live before the race ends. The only problem lies in rain or other delays. You may have to increase the recording time. Which you can do on the fly. Oh, and while I'm recording I can watch a previously recorded show, sans commercials. It really is nice...
 
Originally posted by DE_Wrangler_2@Jul 9 2004, 04:23 AM
What I remember most about the "good old days" with ESPN, ABC and TNN was the way Ned Jarrett was the color commentator. Not the announcer and certainly not the star of the show.

Benny Parsons at least knows he's no longer a driver..........Darrell Waltrip doesn't.
Verrry good !!!!!!
 
To address a couple of points in this trhead, firstly quoting the original piece:

"Where this is really hurting NASCAR is with the casual fan in the big metro markets who figures he might give racing a try, only to have his suspicions confirmed that it isn't really anything to be taken seriously.

"And those are the people who, in the long run, are going to decide if NASCAR makes it as a big-time, legitimate sport
."

Oh really? I thought NASCAR had already become the number two spectator sport in America before all this focus on the big cities started? Perchance did the Godfathers in Daytona stretch the truth about that a bit? Mayhap they did. I was under the impression that all us "good ol' Southern boys" who don't matter to NASCAR anymore had already elevated the sport to that status just fine without the help of our more important cousins in town. Guess not. One more reason they'll be one fan short come 2005.

Secondly, as to announcers and their biases, I've been hanging around this popsicle stand more than a couple of years as well. Bob Jenkins and Ken Squier were the best I remember hearing. And Jerry Punch being biased? Maybe. But let's be honest here. Dick Berggren picked Dale Earnhardt to win every race, he still leans heavily into Chevy favortism, and I honestly can't recall the last time he filed a pit report without some manner of bowtie backdrop visible in the shot, be it a banner or a hauler or a pit crew. I often wonder who pays his salary.
 
Originally posted by DE_Wrangler_2@Jul 8 2004, 10:23 PM
And FOX is much worse than NBC. Benny Parsons at least knows he's no longer a driver..........Darrell Waltrip doesn't.
Or maybe Benny just doesn't remember that he once was a driver. I wish him luck getting the drivers in the right car.

In my opinion, the article really says nothing. It is just mostly fluff.

They do need to bring the actual event back to the focus of the broadcast. This is happening in almost all the other sports as well. I think it revolves around people's attention spans. People need some sort of catch to keep them there. The have all these fancy halftime shows with all the people that are supposed to be "celebrities".

I'm here to watch the Race, so just give me the d_mn RACE! Show me all the cars. I want to see how nemechek, gaughan, and shepherd are doing.
 
Originally posted by de7xwcc@Jul 8 2004, 12:41 PM
i wish they would offer a pay perview option for those of us that hate commericals, and have jerry punch, and buddy baker doing the broadcast.

let the bashing begin !!
In all fairness folks... They already have Pay-per-view... It's called a Ticket!
 
I forgot which race it was, but the race where they missed the gentlemen start your engines wasn't too good, and I'm not sure about this little battle between tony stewart and daryll waltrip - did nascar put this on? But the rain delays defanitley arn't fox's fauly, it's just stupidity on nascar's part
 
I sure get a kick out of some of the responses here. :) We've graduated from a discussion about FOX and it's broadcasting of the races vs NBC and it's broadcasting to NASCAR and the God Fathers and rain delays being stupidity on NASCAR's part. What the heck do those have to do with want the article in question? Well, at least one poster stated that there would be one less "fan" aboard come 2005..........that's a start. :bounce:
 
As long as they have the races on TV, then that's all I care about. I don't care who it is... NBC, Fox, FX, SPEED, it doesn't matter to me either way. It's on TV and i'm happy.
 
Originally posted by slick-nick@Jul 9 2004, 10:28 PM
As long as they have the races on TV, then that's all I care about. I don't care who it is... NBC, Fox, FX, SPEED, it doesn't matter to me either way. It's on TV and i'm happy.
There is hope out here yet!!! :D :cheers: :cheers:

That's the way I feel.............I can bitch about the broadcasting staff all day. But I ain't wanting the broadcasting to go away. I don't like DW but I haven't missed a FOX broadcast yet because of it.

Well, that ain't exactly true..........I've missed a couple but not because I wanted to. :D
 
That's the way I feel.............I can bitch about the broadcasting staff all day. But I ain't wanting the broadcasting to go away. I don't like DW but I haven't missed a FOX broadcast yet because of it.

You can add me to this group too. :D
 
Actually, and honestly, I feel the same way.
Fuss and gripe as I might, I would still rather
have them on telly than not!!!!!
And that's the truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL
 
Sure, I kinda miss TNN and ESPN, BUT NETWORKS have increased fan support.
We ALL have moaned and groaned about this, that, and the other.
I just bless the person who invented television.

LET'S GO RACIN!!!!!!!!
 
Yep i would have to agree with the last 3 posts too. I can remember when my Dad and I would be searching the tv guide from front to back, looking for the re-broadcast of a race. Most of the time it would be on Wide World of Sports, a month or 2 later, an abbreviated version to boot. I know i am dating myself there, i was in the range of 7-11 years old at that time. I just was so hard to find it back in the 60s and 70s unless you actually attended a race. When it started to be broadcast live every week, man ....wow it was so cool, i didn't care who the heck was announcing ....it was the race!!! I think a lot of the older generation has lost site of that and the younger fans are just spoiled by the constant barrage of video exposure. It has come a long way, i am just thankful i can watch it every week on my 27" PIP tv....lol. :)
 
Ah Yeah, add the 36" TV with Tivo for instant replays and slow motion replays. B)
 
Back
Top Bottom