Fuel injection by 2011?

[Magicmiler]

NASCAR shooting to implement fuel injection in 2011: By the time the 2011 racing season gets under way, the only place to find a carburetor in the Sprint Cup Series might be in NASCAR's Hall of Fame. Officials said today that they hope to replace carburetors with fuel injection, and have been testing potential systems with an eye toward making the change as soon as possible. "We are in the process of the development and the testing and have been for probably six or eight months," " said Robin Pemberton, vice president of competition for NASCAR. The easy part is to just build the fuel injection system. The thing that we need to put into play is how are we going to regulate it, and what's going to be fair for everybody?" NASCAR is one of the only racing organizations that continues to use carburetors in its series. Fuel injection is a more accurate, and efficient, way of delivering fuel into the engine. It has been around since the 1950s and has been in place on all passenger cars in the United States since the late 1980s. Pemberton said some Cup teams have already been developing and working with systems with the expectation that such a move would eventually be made. Some teams, Pemberton said, "do have track time & on their early production or early prototype fuel injection system. "So our goal is to shoot for 2011," he said. "I think that's pretty aggressive. "We are pushing hard."(SceneDaily)(1-23-2010)

 

[MRM]

Policing it is going to be the trick. I'd like to see how they're going to do that.

 

[Magnethead]

Policing it is going to be the trick. I'd like to see how they're going to do that.

Black box control boxes like the MSD boxes?

 

[SST55]

Black box control boxes like the MSD boxes?

Yep, I imagine they'll issue all the components including injectors,brain etc very similar to issuing restristor plate and shock/spring packages.

 

[Magnethead]

I think the bigger question, is who gets the control for the black boxes of they do that.... Performance Electronics/PerTech??

Also, safety. Right now, the cars all use cable-driven in-tank pumps, so that fuel flow ceases if the engine dies/ect. EFI requires 30+ PSI of fuel pressure, via electrical fuel pump. What will they do, wire a relay to cut fuel flow at the kill switch? If something happens in an accident and driver is knocked out or something, and a fuel line comes loose, you're going to have 30+PSI of fuel shooting everywhere. Good example, on a formula car at schoool, the throttle body came off when professor was driving it, the computer read it as wide open, and prof hit kill switch and brakes in time to land about 2 feet from a student's parked car.

 

[buckaroo]

Yep, I imagine they'll issue all the components including injectors,brain etc very similar to issuing restristor plate and shock/spring packages.

Hey SST, why don't you slip on over with Andy and give your attention to ARCA. It just doesn't appear that you find anything they, NASCAR, does that you accept or agree with. Makes me equate NASCAR with those you oppose politically. Oh wait, most of them do disagree with you on that point. Yep, you and Andy are very much alike.

 

[Magnethead]

Hey SST, why don't you slip on over with Andy and give your attention to ARCA. It just doesn't appear that you find anything they, NASCAR, does that you accept or agree with. Makes me equate NASCAR with those you oppose politically. Oh wait, most of them do disagree with you on that point. Yep, you and Andy are very much alike.

hold it there. SST was making a valid point, I don't see any direct displays of sarcasm that would say otherwise.

 

[SlowNeasy]

The easy part is to just build the fuel injection system. The thing that we need to put into play is how are we going to regulate it, and what's going to be fair for everybody?"

how about just regulating for safety and let the teams do the rest. if one team does it better than another team then good for them. waiting for nascar to come up with a handicapping system like that used in horse racing....

 

[Magicmiler]

I think the bigger question, is who gets the control for the black boxes of they do that.... Performance Electronics/PerTech??

Also, safety. Right now, the cars all use cable-driven in-tank pumps, so that fuel flow ceases if the engine dies/ect. EFI requires 30+ PSI of fuel pressure, via electrical fuel pump. What will they do, wire a relay to cut fuel flow at the kill switch? If something happens in an accident and driver is knocked out or something, and a fuel line comes loose, you're going to have 30+PSI of fuel shooting everywhere. Good example, on a formula car at schoool, the throttle body came off when professor was driving it, the computer read it as wide open, and prof hit kill switch and brakes in time to land about 2 feet from a student's parked car.

Good points,all of them! I too was wondering about a fail safe of some sort to prevent a catastrophic chain of events in case of a collision,which always seems to happen at most tracks. And how does fuel mileage play into an EFI system?
Can you shut the fuel pump off to save gas,or shut the engine off to save fuel?

 

[SST55]

Electric fuel pump wired to the oil pressure switch. No oil pressure= no power to the pump. You have a secondary power supply line used for starting only.
That's how we did it before we installed a accumulater which eliminated the need for the secondary power line.
EFI will be more efficient,supposedly.

 

[foehammer111]

Hey SST, why don't you slip on over with Andy and give your attention to ARCA. It just doesn't appear that you find anything they, NASCAR, does that you accept or agree with. Makes me equate NASCAR with those you oppose politically. Oh wait, most of them do disagree with you on that point. Yep, you and Andy are very much alike.

Huh? Are you projecting again, Buck? I didn't see anything wrong with SST's statement, and he makes a valid point.

I think this is a good thing, but it will be interesting to see how they handle the safety aspect of it. Pressurized fuel = bad. Just ask Kimi Raikkonen.

 

[Benevolent One]

I figure better fuel mileage equals less pit stops and that is usually a good thing.

SST makes a good point about wiring it to the oil pressure switch. That seems like a good idea, without knowing all the particulars of how quickly it would shut-off the pump and other factors. It does seem like it would work though.

 

[Magicmiler]

I am curious as to how the inspection process would happen.Peeking into fuel cells seems kinda sketchy.....

 

[Magnethead]

Huh? Are you projecting again, Buck? I didn't see anything wrong with SST's statement, and he makes a valid point.

I think this is a good thing, but it will be interesting to see how they handle the safety aspect of it. Pressurized fuel = bad. Just ask Kimi Raikkonen.

IRL announced this weekend a new RF based system, which will lockout the electronic paddle shifters until the fueling nozzle is greater than about 4 feet form the fuelling port.

IDK if F1 has a similar system, thankfully NASCAR still uses unpressurized fueling systems. 30 PSI of fuel in a 1/4" line during a crash, however.... Not so pretty.

 

[VaDirt]

IRL announced this weekend a new RF based system, which will lockout the electronic paddle shifters until the fueling nozzle is greater than about 4 feet form the fuelling port.

IDK if F1 has a similar system, thankfully NASCAR still uses unpressurized fueling systems. 30 PSI of fuel in a 1/4" line during a crash, however.... Not so pretty.

About F1, remeber that F1 isn't fueling during the race in 2010.

 

[buckaroo]

SST and all, I'm sorry, I read your reply wrong. After re-reading it over and over, it's finally sunk into my thick skull and I agree with you. Control is the issue.

 

[Magnethead]

About F1, remeber that F1 isn't fueling during the race in 2010.

I didn't hear about that. The engine has to be off, or the cars have bigger tanks this year with shorter races?

 

[foehammer111]

I didn't hear about that. The engine has to be off, or the cars have bigger tanks this year with shorter races?

Yeah, I forgot about the no-refueling.

F1 pit stops in 2010 will no longer include adding fuel. The cars have been redesigned so they hold enough fuel to go the entire race distance on one tank, so none of the races have been shortened.

This rule change was actually approved before the 2009 season as a way to cut costs. F1 has also seen several pit road accidents over the last couple years involving the pressurized fuel hose being ripped off, and spraying fuel over pit crews, and other cars.

 

[dpkimmel2001]

I know that this is an import topic to some but what does it truly matter? What difference will it make to me as a viewer? Perhaps one less pit stop during a race because their getting better fuel mileage. I like that part of the race too. Heck, when I go to the race that's one of the things that I like to see and I try to make sure I have seats that allow me a view of the pits.

 

[mike honcho]

I figure better fuel mileage equals less pit stops and that is usually a good thing.

SST makes a good point about wiring it to the oil pressure switch. That seems like a good idea, without knowing all the particulars of how quickly it would shut-off the pump and other factors. It does seem like it would work though.

Now they will probably go back to the smaller fuel cells.

 

[chromehorn]

I know that this is an import topic to some but what does it truly matter? What difference will it make to me as a viewer? Perhaps one less pit stop during a race because their getting better fuel mileage. I like that part of the race too. Heck, when I go to the race that's one of the things that I like to see and I try to make sure I have seats that allow me a view of the pits.

It opens it up for other manufacturers to join in. I have read somewhere a while back that some manufacturers, I believe Nissan and BMW, have not joined nascar because they didn't want to waste the time and money on designing an engine that wasn't fuel injection.

 

[sloggie]

It opens it up for other manufacturers to join in. I have read somewhere a while back that some manufacturers, I believe Nissan and BMW, have not joined nascar because they didn't want to waste the time and money on designing an engine that wasn't fuel injection.

This and there is a growing realization that NASCAR is becoming less relevant party due to using very obsolete equipment.

 

[Magnethead]

Good points. Maybe if BMW brought a 6 series coupe in and Nissan could bring the altima......

 

[Mopardh9]

I don't think BMW will go Nascar , maybe Nissan, but I'd look for Honda to go with the Accord.

 

[SST55]

It opens it up for other manufacturers to join in. I have read somewhere a while back that some manufacturers, I believe Nissan and BMW, have not joined nascar because they didn't want to waste the time and money on designing an engine that wasn't fuel injection.

Right! IIRC when it became known Toyota was joining the truck series it was asked if Nissan and Honda would come on board too.

Nissan said they didn't have a motor and wouldn't spend the money to develop one. Honda said they weren't interested in going with out-dated technology (using a carb)
I might have the companies and reasons bassackwards but in any case they weren't going to get involved and use horse and buggy tech.

 

[Lap3Forever]

Ive ran EFI on a race and i will not to that again. Its a pain in the ass!

 

[chromehorn]

I don't think BMW will go Nascar , maybe Nissan, but I'd look for Honda to go with the Accord.

They did toy with the idea of nascar at one time but it was before they built the American Le Mans Series M3. Since developing that they may have lost interest in nascar.