Heat races becoming a thing of the past?

SpeedPagan

SpeedPagan

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So I just got back from a dirt bike racing event at Woodleaf Speedway and they had 26 heat races for all of their division for the night. It got me to thinking that aside from the truck race at Eldora, I haven't seen a heat race.

Are heat races starting to become a thing of the past in motorsports? I mean, even in asphalt racing like Legends, Late Model, local track Modified, etc. They do qualifying instead of heat races. The only other time I've seen heat races was back in the 90s when my brother was racing WKA sanctioned go-kart races and they had heat races.

Thoughts?
 
The Gatorade duels at Daytona are pretty much heat races aren't they? Anyway, check out any major or local dirt racing. They all do heat races
 
toledo47 said:
The Gatorade duels at Daytona are pretty much heat races aren't they? Anyway, check out any major or local dirt racing. They all do heat races
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I would love to see Whelen Modifieds or KOMA Modifieds do heat races. There's really no reason not to, since most of the Modified drivers are also tearing their car up at Bowman Gray. So the whole argument of not wanting to tear their car up before the race is bull****.
 
Most everything out here runs heats. Langley Speedway doesn't and Virginia Motor Speedway doesn't (but they should) but all of the other tracks I frequent run heats.
 
Once upon a time we ran A & B heats and a Consi. Now some divisions don't have enough cars to run a A & B. Some nights not enough showed up to even run a heat. Lined up by points and a varying number of cars inverted in the lineup.
 
All my tracks I visit do heats. Sometimes we don't if there's a time problem or if not enough cars show up for a division.
 
VaDirt said:
Most everything out here runs heats. Langley Speedway doesn't and Virginia Motor Speedway doesn't (but they should) but all of the other tracks I frequent run heats.
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None of the asphalt Late Model races, except the big three (Martinsville, Southern National, Myrtle Beach), do heat races. I don't mind. I don't like time trial qualifying though.

Then, there's the whole practice stuff. I'm pretty sure the Myrtle Beach 400 is called the Myrtle Beach 400 because there are literally 400 practice sessions.
 
NASCAR, on the other hand, should consider heat races. Since the argument against shorter races is that fans expect 400 laps of racing, give it to them. Four 25 lap heat races and then a 300 lap race.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
None of the asphalt Late Model races, except the big three (Martinsville, Southern National, Myrtle Beach), do heat races. I don't mind. I don't like time trial qualifying though.

Then, there's the whole practice stuff. I'm pretty sure the Myrtle Beach 400 is called the Myrtle Beach 400 because there are literally 400 practice sessions.
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Correct, I'm thinking dirt tracks.
 
Its not really needed with asphalt races as much as with dirt. You mentioned the NASCAR Modified tour, They run fairly long races (150 laps on a half mile) , and usually don't have more than a full field worth of cars show up. The dirt races really need it , they almost always get more thsn a full field of cars to show up and since the races are so short (big sprint races at 30-35 laps and big late model races at 50 laps on a 1/4 mile to half mile), those things can go by so QUICK. I have been to big dirt shows with the a-main going green all the way through and being over in about 10 Minutes. I wouldn't have felt like my ticket for $30-$35 was really worth it for 10 min of racing, but the heats added a lot of needed racing laps those nights
 
I wouldn't mind NASCAR adopting heat races in 2015 for a limited numbers of races. Maybe have heat races for tracks like Bristol, Martinsville, Dover, to really give it that short track feel?
 
toledo47 said:
Its not really needed with asphalt races as much as with dirt. You mentioned the NASCAR Modified tour, They run fairly long races (150 laps on a half mile) , and usually don't have more than a full field worth of cars show up. The dirt races really need it , they almost always get more thsn a full field of cars to show up and since the races are so short (big sprint races at 30-35 laps and big late model races at 50 laps on a 1/4 mile to half mile), those things can go by so QUICK. I have been to big dirt shows with the a-main going green all the way through and being over in about 10 Minutes. I wouldn't have felt like my ticket for $30-$35 was really worth it for 10 min of racing, but the heats added a lot of needed racing laps those nights
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The asphalt tracks in this region have adopted a purist mentality. We can't have heat races. There has to be countless hours of practice. Qualifying has to be time-trial qualifying. We can only race on Saturday nights. Then, in the summer, car counts suck everywhere because there are eight tracks within driving distance of each other all racing because racing on weeknights in the summer is a cardinal sin. Meanwhile, tracks in other regions get spectacular car counts all the time because they're racing on Wednesday nights or Thursday nights in the summer and all the tracks aren't racing on top of each other.
 
Hell, some tracks around here absolutely refuse to do inverts of any kind. They do time-trial qualifying, two laps, and start their races straight up.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Hell, some tracks around here absolutely refuse to do inverts of any kind. They do time-trial qualifying, two laps, and start their races straight up.
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I'm not a fan of inverts at all TBH... Whats the point of going for the pole if you are just gonna lose it to an invert anyway...
At World of Outlaws Late Model models they do a redraw, they time trial, and then Typically there are 4 heats, top 2 go to the redraw. Seems like BS when the guy that was quick in time trials, and won his heat race then draws 7 or 8 for a 40 or 50 lap race on a 1/4 mile track. And the guy that should have been starting in the third or fourth row runs away with it without a single challenge for the lead. Its hard to pass and usually with such short races someone from the front row is going to win. Cautions are rare, often with races having zero yellow laps. I don't like to see someone runaway with the win so easily, but if thats how its gonna be then I think it should be the guy that deserves it (the guy that won time trials and his heat race).
The Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series (the other big late model series) doesn't do the redraw. IMO, the racing is not any better with the WoO, so the redraw doesn't help. If anything i'd say the races in the Lucas Oil Series are usually better....
I know the thought with the invert is, the fast cars will have to come through the pack, so the racing is better, but at least with dirt late models (from the races I have been to, which is many) thats not very often the case...
 
toledo47 said:
I'm not a fan of inverts at all TBH... Whats the point of going for the pole if you are just gonna lose it to an invert anyway...
At World of Outlaws Late Model models they do a redraw, they time trial, and then Typically there are 4 heats, top 2 go to the redraw. Seems like BS when the guy that was quick in time trials, and won his heat race then draws 7 or 8 for a 40 or 50 lap race on a 1/4 mile track. And the guy that should have been starting in the third or fourth row runs away with it without a single challenge for the lead. Its hard to pass and usually with such short races someone from the front row is going to win. Cautions are rare, often with races having zero yellow laps. I don't like to see someone runaway with the win so easily, but if thats how its gonna be then I think it should be the guy that deserves it (the guy that won time trials and his heat race).
The Lucas Oil Late Model Dirt Series (the other big late model series) doesn't do the redraw. IMO, the racing is not any better with the WoO, so the redraw doesn't help. If anything i'd say the races in the Lucas Oil Series are usually better....
I know the thought with the invert is, the fast cars will have to come through the pack, so the racing is better, but at least with dirt late models (from the races I have been to, which is many) thats not very often the case...
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Difference between dirt and asphalt is practice time and stuff. Dirt tracks around here, you get a few hot laps, qualifying then you're heat racing and then going to the feature race. Asphalt tracks, you've six hours of practice the day before the race followed by another two hours of practice on race day prior to time trial qualifying and the feature race. I don't mind this when the races are long (150 laps) and you don't get to change tires or they're 200-300 laps and you only get one set of tires. Makes the race interesting.

The Snowball Derby was the most god awful race I've ever watched in person and I mean that with no hyperbole. Why? Because Tungsten was that much faster than everyone else and had plenty of time to make his car even faster. Then, they had a silly rule about throwing cautions every 75 laps because of tire-wear so it took "strategy" out of the race. I watched 300 laps of Tungsten dominance and it was a horrible bore.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Dirt tracks around here
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I think its pretty much the same everywhere with dirt racing, though I could be wrong because i only go to the tracks when the big tour is in town.

Although actually, when they do have local support classes with with big dirt late model or sprint tours, they almost never do even time trials for the local classes, just quick hot lap, heats and the feature. Although they might just be doing that to keep the show moving along since everyone is there to see the touring series.
 
toledo47 said:
I think its pretty much the same everywhere with dirt racing, though I could be wrong because i only go to the tracks when the big tour is in town.

Although actually, when they do have local support classes with with big dirt late model or sprint tours, they almost never do even time trials for the local classes, just quick hot lap, heats and the feature. Although they might just be doing that to keep the show moving along since everyone is there to see the touring series.
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A lot of tracks have eliminated time trials for support divisions. I worked for one of the few tracks that did time trials for every division, every race. It was torture. Especially when they had seven or eight divisions racing.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
A lot of tracks have eliminated time trials for support divisions. I worked for one of the few tracks that did time trials for every division, every race. It was torture. Especially when they had seven or eight divisions racing.
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+1

That's horrible that they did time trials every week. One of my local tracks does time trials once a year for their 4th of July "Midseason 300". 6 divisions that qualify in the hot July 4th sun. It takes forever and its not fun for the fans.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
+1

That's horrible that they did time trials every week. One of my local tracks does time trials once a year for their 4th of July "Midseason 300". 6 divisions that qualify in the hot July 4th sun. It takes forever and its not fun for the fans.
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@SpeedPagan was there one night. Green flag was scheduled to drop at 5pm, but because of an accident in practice, we started falling behind. Instead of calling off practice, the race director decides to finish practice as scheduled. Then, instead of calling off qualifying and doing a draw for starting position or something, they do time trials ... for every single division. Qualifying didn't start until 5:30. And the race didn't start until 8pm. I almost lost my ****.

If I was a fan, I would have left and never gone back.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I think that's what I did actually LOL.
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That admittedly left a bad taste in my mouth, especially since I had to get on the PA system and "apologize" to the fans for stuff that was "out of our control" when it wasn't out of our control. Things were so much better this past year until the "King of the Hill" ruined the fun.

The weather also sucked tremendously that night - it might as well have snowed. And they were doing some "Halloween" stuff that I never did and wanted us all in costumes. Yeah, I had a costume on under two layers of clothes - helped keep me warm though.
 
Dirt tracks still do heat races for the most part. But the more south you go, the less heat racing you'll see. One track near me runs a couple of times a month. Unless it's a big series that runs heats, they never run any. It's qualify, the race straight up.
 
MRM said:
Dirt tracks still do heat races for the most part. But the more south you go, the less heat racing you'll see. One track near me runs a couple of times a month. Unless it's a big series that runs heats, they never run any. It's qualify, the race straight up.
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The purist mentality here is just so bad, and completely unbreakable. I think racetracks around here have forgotten that entertaining the fans is part of the show.
 
Honestly, I could see people getting behind cutting the NASCAR Sprint Cup races short by a few hundred miles if they replaced the current qualifying method with heat races. Of course the teams would never go for it because they don't want the cars to be damaged and have to go to the back-up car for the main event.
 
I want heat races, and 500 miles races. The best day ever was a couple years ago with the 800 miles of Talladega!
 
kkfan91 said:
I want heat races, and 500 miles races. The best day ever was a couple years ago with the 800 miles of Talladega!
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Oh gods no, please no. I would gladly have the Food City 300 @ Bristol Speedway if it meant we could have an A, B and C Heat Race.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Oh gods no, please no. I would gladly have the Food City 300 @ Bristol Speedway if it meant we could have an A, B and C Heat Race.
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I'd rather have the Food City 800
 
kkfan91 said:
I'd rather have the Food City 800
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h66D05914
 
In my opinion heat races in the top three levels of Nascar, cup - nationwide - trucks, is ridiculous. They've been screwing it up enough as it is. Leave it alone for a few years.
 
Johali said:
In my opinion heat races in the top three levels of Nascar, cup - nationwide - trucks, is ridiculous. They've been screwing it up enough as it is. Leave it alone for a few years.
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Actually, I think NASCAR should get in touch with it's short track roots. Too many 1.5 ovals and everything is too pristine and clean. We need to have more short tracks, bring in heat races and have drivers speak what's really on their mind instead of ratting off a list of sponsors to thank like a robotic drone.
 
In my area it seems that support classes are the only ones that heat race... IF they have enough cars to justify it. This is true for both dirt and paved tracks.
The top classes are qualifying. Some are starting straight up, and others are drawing for a number of inverts. Some of that is due to each track's own decision, but others are due to sanctioning body decisions.

I've noticed that the tracks that do qualifying after the night's main program is supposed to start (6:00 - 7:00 in the evening in many cases) are losing fans who are bored watching qualifying. Bowman-Gray is smarter - they qualify before the main program starts. Fans can come in to see qualifying, but a lot of them don't come in until the main show.
Of course NASCAR mostly qualifies the day before the actual race. Even with its new qualifying format, if appears that NASCAR realizes that qualifying is tough to sell to fans and not a good idea to add to an already long show (if they did it on race day). NASCAR races are so long that I don't see a need for them to do heat races - part of their racing is the process of improving cars over the course of the race and pit stops.

Dirt tracks around me are mostly running FASTRAK rules for Crate Late Models (as their top class). FASTRAK requires qualifying instead of heat races (so I'm told), so those tracks have their hands tied. However, they still could do qualifying earlier (like Bowman-Gray, who is much more successful). Occasionally these tracks also qualify their support classes, and the result is terrible - it takes so long that actual racing starts late and the show goes really late, and fans are complaining and not returning.

I've switched to go-kart tracks partially due to the frustrating shows at the car tracks around me. The karts heat race unless they're having a "money" race (higher payout) - they qualify for "money" races. With all of this and so many classes the shows can run really late, but the teams seem to prefer the additional laps and competition of heats. Most kart tracks don't attract fans (other than people associated with racing teams) so they don't worry about what fans think... but it makes me wonder if they're not shooting themselves in the foot (that they might attract fans if they ran a shorter show). Car count at kart tracks has been mediocre, but generally better than the car tracks around me. Several former car teams have gone back to karts since they feel they get more for their money there.

I can understand drivers and car owners who don't like heat racing because of the risk to their equipment. But I hope they've come to race - not have a car show. I can understand frustrated teams that are fast enough to qualify up front but get inverted back, then can't advance in the race. At many dirt tracks that's due to poor track preparation. But the bottom line is racers need to focus upon the quality of the show. Train races and long qualifying sessions bore fans. Bored fans don't return, so the front gate takes in less money. Fewer fans also result in fewer sponsors on race cars and at tracks. With fewer spectator and sponsor dollars coming in, tracks raise pit pass costs... in effect the racers end up funding their own payouts. If you are a racer and don't like paying the majority of your own purse then you need to be willing to do heat races and inversions and anything else that can improve the show - so you can help attract those fans and sponsors back. If your track doesn't have two grooves or enough racing room, causing heat race or inversion problems, you need to talk to the track staff. It's a complex problem not all the fault of any one entity, but it has demonstrated that it needs to be fixed - which requires cooperation.
 
If the cars and tracks didn't suck and the drivers weren't so bland, fans might not want to see radical changes to NASCAR racing and would enjoy 500 mile races.
 
Khrist, I hope brain doesn't see this thread and get another one of his dim witted ideers......:):):)
 
I go to dirt track sprint car races and most tracks run heat races instead of time trials. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather watch hard fought heat races than boring ole time trials!/ jeff Gordon has stated he'd like to see heat races, b-mains and shorter races in nascar (why do ya think they call it napcar, everyone cruises around for 450 laps and then races the last 50 laps)
 
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