Helton Said

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fastfordfan

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After two brutal accidents during Monday’s Sprint Cup race at Watkins Glen International and driver safety complaints, NASCAR president Mike Helton said Tuesday that changes are likely at the New York road course before NASCAR returns next season.

Denny Hamlin slammed a tire barrier head-on at near full speed early in the race, and David Reutimann and David Ragan were involved in a vicious crash – both drivers’ cars hitting guard rails violently – near the end of the race. There were no serious injuries, but the crashes were two of the worst on the tour this season.

After the race, several drivers said more SAFER barriers (“soft” walls in front of permanent barriers) are needed at the track, and Ragan said he had raced at dirt tracks that had safer facilities for drivers.

“What it may be safe to assume is that the configuration of what’s there will be different,” Helton said Tuesday of the Glen.

“There are some areas where a SAFER barrier isn’t the best answer, particularly on a road course where the turns are left and right. On an oval track where the cars are constantly going left, it’s easier to figure out. It doesn’t mean that all the areas that need to be covered are covered, but a SAFER barrier isn’t always the perfect answer.”

Helton said NASCAR works on safety improvements at tracks every season.

“As much as you work on it and anticipate, you can’t anticipate everything that can happen,” he said. “I doubt that there’s any software anywhere that can calculate everything that might come up.

“When you see an incident that we haven’t been able to anticipate based on experience or engineering, we certainly get a lesson in trying to figure out what’s a better solution.”

NASCAR produced some water-cooler talk Tuesday after Monday’s race ended with Greg Biffle and Boris Said yelling at each other – and almost brawling – in the garage area. Said’s contact with Ragan sparked the wild late-race accident that sent cars sailing.

“It’s the nature of sports,” Helton said. “On the morning after a bench-clearing fight in baseball or a fight at a hockey rink or the same thing in football, that’s what the media is going to be showing. That’s the nature of incidents like that that occur, including our own.”

Said threatened to give Biffle a “whupping,” even saying he would go to Biffle’s house to do the work.

“I don’t know how you can react to that,” Helton said. “Obviously, it’s something you have to watch. It’s something that if anything does happen there is consideration for the premeditation of it. But I don’t know how you react to someone’s comments.”
 
I say no safer barrier, because they wont stop the road course ricochet. A change to tires and foam blocks, along with changing some wall angles would go a long way. I don't think safer barriers changes the Ragan / Reutimann wreck much at all. I'm not sure how WG will take NASCAR first telling them to do something about the sand pit delays, then saying it's not safe anymore.
 
I say no safer barrier, because they wont stop the road course ricochet. A change to tires and foam blocks, along with changing some wall angles would go a long way. I don't think safer barriers changes the Ragan / Reutimann wreck much at all. I'm not sure how WG will take NASCAR first telling them to do something about the sand pit delays, then saying it's not safe anymore.
Isn't Watkins Glen already NA__AR. Isn't it owned by ISC?
 
I say no safer barrier, because they wont stop the road course ricochet. A change to tires and foam blocks, along with changing some wall angles would go a long way. I don't think safer barriers changes the Ragan / Reutimann wreck much at all.

agree, soft walls won't do anything. Maybe instead of SAFER (Steel And Foam), they need TAFER (Tire and Foam) barriers. And like you said, just make it so that the wall are at a different angle, and not so close to the racing surface.
 
Interesting to hear Helton today on NASCAR Now say that SAFER barriers at some points on the Watkins Glen track might actually prove to be more dangerous than the existing guardrails. I'm no structural engineer, but I'm curious as to what information he was given that lead him to that conclusion.
 
Interesting to hear Helton today on NASCAR Now say that SAFER barriers at some points on the Watkins Glen track might actually prove to be more dangerous than the existing guardrails. I'm no structural engineer, but I'm curious as to what information he was given that lead him to that conclusion.

Armco has more initial give, then you hit dirt. With the SAFER barrier, Ragan and Reutimann would have bounced off even harder and faster. Remember how far and fast McDowell bounced down the track at Texas?
 
Armco has more initial give, then you hit dirt. With the SAFER barrier, Ragan and Reutimann would have bounced off even harder and faster. Remember how far and fast McDowell bounced down the track at Texas?

That makes sense.
 
Interesting to hear Helton today on NASCAR Now say that SAFER barriers at some points on the Watkins Glen track might actually prove to be more dangerous than the existing guardrails. I'm no structural engineer, but I'm curious as to what information he was given that lead him to that conclusion.

I'd be willing bet it was engineers that are far more capable of rendering that finding than those of us on some NASCAR forum.
 
I'd be willing bet it was engineers that are far more capable of rendering that finding than those of us on some NASCAR forum.

For sure. I'm just a race fan with opinions. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on anything NASCAR.
 
For sure. I'm just a race fan with opinions. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on anything NASCAR.

Yep. Until the engineers show up and explain things, we'll have to use our eyes and brains to figure these things out ourselves.

What we know.

1) Safer barrier is good at absorbing impacts, but cars do tend to bounce off them.

2) When cars bounce off them on an oval, that car tends to continue traveling with traffic, giving drivers a little more time to react and lessens secondary impacts. Cars also tend to move in a more predictable way.

3) Because of odd wall angles due to access roads and different turn's, cars that bounce tend to move ACROSS traffic.

Imagine if there were more cars behind Reutimann when he went across the track with his roof facing them. It wouldn't have taken much of a hit to take his life.

On a road course, bouncing around is extra dangerous. Tires and foam blocks tend to trap the car. Not always, but if its deep enough, it will.
 
Yep. Until the engineers show up and explain things, we'll have to use our eyes and brains to figure these things out ourselves.

What we know.

1) Safer barrier is good at absorbing impacts, but cars do tend to bounce off them.

2) When cars bounce off them on an oval, that car tends to continue traveling with traffic, giving drivers a little more time to react and lessens secondary impacts. Cars also tend to move in a more predictable way.

3) Because of odd wall angles due to access roads and different turn's, cars that bounce tend to move ACROSS traffic.

Imagine if there were more cars behind Reutimann when he went across the track with his roof facing them. It wouldn't have taken much of a hit to take his life.

On a road course, bouncing around is extra dangerous. Tires and foam blocks tend to trap the car. Not always, but if its deep enough, it will.

You know, for not knowing what the hell you're talking about, that's a pretty good assessment there.;):)
 
Armco has more initial give, then you hit dirt. With the SAFER barrier, Ragan and Reutimann would have bounced off even harder and faster. Remember how far and fast McDowell bounced down the track at Texas?

I was in the infield at TMS, on a scaffold inside of turn two, and watched McDowell hit the wall and barrel-roll towards me. It was dramatic and devastating - and we were all quite relieved that he was able to walk away from that incident.

The wall provided a softer initial impact but it was the banking in the exit of the turn that led to his aerobatics.

No type of wall construction could have prevented what happened between the 6 and the 00. Same could be said of the Gordon/Hornish incident from a couple years ago, which was alluded to in another thread.

NASCAR can over-think and over-engineer every aspect of every track - and still not make racing totally "safe". Drivers know the risks they are taking when they strap themselves into a racecar, and while the goal is to make the sport as safe as humanly possible, shee-it is gonna happen!
 
You know, for not knowing what the hell you're talking about, that's a pretty good assessment there.;):)

Thank you, nascage. :beerbang: I wish there was a tail-wagging emot.

No type of wall construction could have prevented what happened between the 6 and the 00. Same could be said of the Gordon/Hornish incident from a couple years ago, which was alluded to in another thread.

I don't agree. Smart wall construction would have kept David from bouncing across traffic. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that walls should flow with the track, rather than jut out toward it. Also, there should be no openings facing traffic. Emergency roads should be a path between overlaping walls with the openings facing away from traffic, like F1 does.

Turns should have pavement, not grass, runoffs and car trapping walls.

Put me on the job. I'll get it done. :D
 
Thank you, nascage. :beerbang: I wish there was a tail-wagging emot.



I don't agree. Smart wall construction would have kept David from bouncing across traffic. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that walls should flow with the track, rather than jut out toward it.
Turns should have pavement, not grass, runoffs and car trapping walls.

Put me on the job. I'll get it done. :D

True, FB. The track narrows at the exit of that turn. If there was more runoff area, maybe the 6 would have been "snared" instead of "bounced". Also, Boris would not have had to maintain his line if he had had more room on the outside.

I fully agree with you about grass and racing not being good partners!

BTW, eliminating (or reducing) the gravel pits was one of the best decisions in the history of that track.
 
Think back to JJ's crash in 2000 vs Denny's on Monday. Same scenario, similar outcome. Reason is because the wall gace, and asorbed and trapped the car, removing all chance of rebound. Ragan hit straight armco, it just shot him off in another direction.

Runoff is a biggie, though. How often do you see crashes block the track at infineon?
 
i am not sure anyone would want to drive head on into a safer barrier with concrete walls behind it. remember the safer barrier to to line concrete walls. the glen doesnt have concrete walls.
 
i am not sure anyone would want to drive head on into a safer barrier with concrete walls behind it. remember the safer barrier to to line concrete walls. the glen doesnt have concrete walls.
they could do what pocono did
 
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