Honestly

E

Eagle1

Guest
...at the end of the Busch race?
I am not trying to be a smart butt, I've NEVER been so confused over the ending of a race in my life.

Some of my question;

there were 9 cars on the lead lap, then all of a sudden there's 13?
Robby Gordon was in 8th place before Biffle got busted for speeding and BH Jr blew his motor and he ends up being in 13 tail end of the lead lap on the restart?
Biffle gets the Lucky dog pass and ends up leading on the restart?

Does anyone have a clue? I was watching, but I sure don't.

Not to mention Robby got the shaft on that restart and when they showed it twice after, he did not pull out until he had passed the line in the wall. However Ron Hornaday did clearly on the retart jump the start as shown in the replays but he didn't get penalized.

These officials have lots of modern technology at their fingertips and fail to use it. NASCAR is making a mockory of these shows.


:D the freezing the field rule don't get it. If there were only 9 cars on the lead lap we couldn't have gotten 13. Unless they froze them so hard they busted and we had more pieces. :D

And freezing the field rule don't account for the Lucky Dog recipient to be leading on the restart.

I'm going to rewind and rewatch and see if I can make some sense out of it.
My immediate thought is this was one heck of a blunder, and apologies won't smooth it over. OH, did they send the "suspended "Officials from Cup down to Busch?
 
Know what you mean man.

they said there was 3 or so cars on pit road when that yellow came out so they all where lucky puppys......still :bsflag:
 
what amazes me is Biffle got out of his car and was mad. He was definately speeding on pit road.
 
Originally posted by Eagle1@Jun 19 2004, 10:21 PM
:D the freezing the field rule don't get it. If there were only 9 cars on the lead lap we couldn't have gotten 13. Unless they froze them so hard they busted and we had more pieces. :D
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:lol: funny. but yeah, the race was sort of messed up if you ask me.
 
Originally posted by bowtie@Jun 19 2004, 10:24 PM
what amazes me is Biffle got out of his car and was mad. He was definately speeding on pit road.
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Can't make a bad call on any Jack Roush car! :lol: :lol: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

He was speeding......this race was a mess up from the start. <_<
 
Yes, I'm a fan of Biffle and I knew he was speeding. I'm thrilled Kyle won too, 1 because I like him, 2 because I knew there was no way Biffle could've been the leader on the restart.

Yes Bowtie, I couldn't believe that either. :huh:
 
Let's go back to the rule that racing back to caution flag is legal again..........that would make it so much easier. That rule was condemned for years as being stupid.........now we have a rule that says it's illegal and it's stupid. I really sort of hated the rule banning racing to the yellow, but I also saw how DJ sat there helpless in the middle of the track with at least thirty cars racing with no apparent thought about killing him! It's a good rule only because drivers could not resist acting stupid........that "gentleman's agreement" that suddenly, after many years of success, became a failure. Blame the right people.........the drivers (and teams), not NASCAR. They (the drivers and teams) made the rule change a neccessity. NASCAR is trying to make it work........for safety and still be fair. I'm not for reverting back to the last completed lap. Sure other series use it..........but, this in not one of the "other series". And all those assertions about electronic timing transponders being placed all over the track to show percisely where any given car is at the instant of the caution is a myth.........they are testing that system. Testing takes time. And if NASCAR were to rely on a system unproven by proper testing, they would be remiss and completely out of line.

Is the racing perfect? Not by a long shot. Is it trying to make it more perfect? Absolutely.

I know pretty much what some responses will be......but that's my thinking and until someone with some verifiable expertise comes along and proves me wrong, I'm sticking to it.
 
i think i've figured out what went wrong...fox was too interested in showing replays than explaining what happened. i had to rewind a couple of times, but i think i figured out what happened.

first, biffle had a huge lead before anyone made pit stops...when he came down pit road the first time, he stayed on the lead lap. he was directly ahead of bliss, who was a lap down, when he went in, spent about 30 seconds on pit road, and came out right behind bliss. that means that greg was still on the lead lap, probably about a half a lap ahead of bowyer. biffle then came down for his stop-and-go on the very next lap...since he was about a half a lap ahead of bowyer and the caution came out right after he got on pit road, he was able to stay on the lead lap.

i don't know what was going on with who the pace car picked up and all that, but i figure biffle must have wound up on the wrong side of the pacecar and once they figured out he was supposed to be on the lead lap, they let him go by the pacecar.

i don't know what happened to get three lucky dogs, but i figure there were probably two drivers let around the pacecar because they were picked up wrong, and one free pass.

fox definately needs to do a better job keeping track of these things...i watched the tape a couple times to figure out that part of things, but it seems like there was some stuff that didn't make it on tv, as usual.
 
Good point nascare..........and probably close to correct!! :cheers: Just imagine how confused we would be if DW and Larry Mac were there instead of Phil Parsons and Randy LaJoie!! :XXROFL:
 
de, i don't think it's fair to blame the drivers for nascare ending racing back to the caution. the red flag is supposed to be used when track conditions prohibit racing, which is why they raced back to the caution. the drivers' thinking behind racing back to the line was that if it was unsafe to do so, nascare would throw the red flag.

there are many short tracks that allow racing back to the line, and when situations exist that makes it likely a driver needs immediate attention or if someone is sitting across the track waiting to be t-boned, they throw the red without hestitation.

the problem was not with drivers racing back to the yellow, the problem was nascare not throwing the red when they should have.
 
Oh that's the reason!! Green to red......pretty dicey getting car going 180 to stop without causing a wreck!! :) Talk about "the big one"!!

That don't make a bit of sense to me.....sorry.
 
OK if he was able to stay on the lead lap it should have put him close to the end of lead lap. Not leading the race on the restart. Still confused. :blink:
 
Well I have to tell you I'm totally disappointed how the Officials handled this race. It was more like first day at race training school.

The real shame of it is, that there was really good racing on the track. The competition was great. Again this week what I thought was a really great race is being over shadowed by incompetince. JMHO
 
gollum...since biffle was still on the lead lap, and the rest of the leaders came in to pit on that caution while greg stayed on the track, he ended up getting the lead. if nobody would have pitted, then he would have restarted behind everybody he was behind when the caution came out.

and, no, not a 180 mph to 0 mph stop with the red. the red flag would pretty much do what the caution does now, get everyone to stop racing and be prepared to stop...

the difference is that there aren't nearly as many incidents that would cause a red as there are that cause yellows. instead of having to freeze the field every time someone stops on the apron of the track or shreds a tie down the backstretch, you'd only have to freeze the field when someone slams the wall hard or when someone comes to a stop in the middle of the racing groove.
 
Well, I guess I'm going to ask if anyone besides me enjoyed the race? I saw some pretty damned good racing all 300 laps. Maybe the "officiating" made some mistakes (though, not as many as some are saying), but I don't think anyone can say Kurt Busch got this one handed to him. Nor can anyone honestly say Gregg Biffle got robbed. The best car on the track at the time of the checkered flag won. Pretty simple to me. We can nick pick NASCAR all season long and nothing will be resolved. Or we can watch races and enjoy the competition, root for our guy and have a good afternoon or evening. I've never said NASCAR has it completely under control with the new rule.........they don't. But, I do see where they are trying to make a package that will work and work well..........and without copying techniques used by other series. They were, for years, the only series that allowed racing back to the caution........it made them unique. And being unique, makes NASCAR different............and NASCAR being different is what originally attracted me to being a fan. I don't want to be a fan of a series that has the same rules as IRL, F1, USAC, ARCA, SCCA or any other series........NASCAR is different. I want it to remain that way. A solution to the new rule is possible...........and it does not have to some copy of some other series to be successful. Very few things are as simple as people seem to thing they are. A "simple" rule about no racing back to the caution has caused a lot of problems.........perhaps thats why NASCAR resisted that rule for so many years.

Think about it. Only "solutions" I've heard to the problem is "let's do like every other series does". Okay, let's use alcohol instead of gasoline, let's put hydraulic jacks on the cars so we can have 9 second, four tire pit stops..........let's become like F1. After all, they are supposed to be the epitome of racing. This is NASCAR. Let's have our own rules.
 
Originally posted by majestyx@Jun 19 2004, 10:17 PM
Hey DE, I don't mean to nitpick, but it's KYLE Busch, not Kurt. ;) :p
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Oops!! :huh: Well, they both have big ears!! :D Good call..........guess I was thinking about tomorrow!! I'm excited about the race tomorrow...........I missed last Sunday's!! :cheers:

Anyway, that's my story and I'm sticking to it!!
 
I just Had to Fall asleep :eek: I was watching the Busch Race and was gonna join in on the Thread, But Dozed off. I've got some readin to do to catch up :cheers:
 
the funny thing, de, is that one of the things that prompted bill france, sr., to start nascar was to have a set of standardized rules...too many promoters had their own little quirky rules. of course i agree that nascar should run differently than irl, usac, f1, and the other open wheel series, but wanting them to be different than the other stock car organizations sort of goes against one of the fundamental principals that nascar was founded on...imo.

what i saw of the race wasn't bad...but i only tuned in after the arca race broadcast was over. i don't agree with all of the rules nascar has, but they seemed to do a good job of enforcing their set of rules tonight. so i'll be positive for a second and give nascar kudos for for keeping the scoring straight.

fox just didn't do a very good job of letting us know what was going on.
 
Biff got black flagged for speeding entering pit road. While he was doing his drive thru a caution came out so he stayed on the tail of the lead lap. The leaders (only 10 cars on the lead lap) pitted but Biff chose to stay out and inherited the lead.
 
I just watched the re-airing and I'm still a bit confused.

Anyway, for biffle to blame nascar is a joke. He had the lead and lost it to Busch - clear and simple. Those Hendrick cars have simply been awsome the last month or so.

If anyone should have a gripe, it's Boyer ( I think it was). Not slowing for the caution when you're the leader? I don't recall seeing that one since the new caution rules came into effect.

BTW, good move on Robbie Gordon's part to get some TV time with the leaders and then let 'em race it out to the end.
 
Originally posted by Patrick9999@Jun 20 2004, 07:07 AM
BTW, good move on Robbie Gordon's part to get some TV time with the leaders and then let 'em race it out to the end.
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I noticed that too...............good move on Robby's part!! :cheers:
 
Well I've replyaed the tape 5 times this morning and am still confused.
On lap 24to go BH Jr and Truex pitted putting them a lap down. on lap 22 to go Biffle pitted, he had such a lead that he pitted and didn't lose a lap but he sped down pit road and had to do a drive thru, which he went around the track and did it immediatly. While on pit road doing the drive thru the caution came out for Johnny. Greg would've gotten lapped but that saved him. That was lap 19 to go, at that time there were 9 cars on the lead lap Johnny had been in 7th and Robby 8th. The explanation that 3 cars were on pit road at the caution therefore didn't losse a lap is VERY confusing. Only after rewatching the tape do I understand the Biffle part, but the 46 went into the pits a lap down car and would've lost another lap but the officals put him back on the lead lap. confused?? The 8 car had pitted 5 laps before and lost his lap and at this point they gave it back to him. ??? So this still doesn't explain the 12 cars now on the lead lap or HOW Robby had to restart in front of the leader as tail end of lead lap? Even if Robby pitted a bunch of times under caution (which I guess we'll never know) he would be at the back of the line. If he didn't pit or if he had pitted just before the caution and didn't pit again he should have been the leader.

Grondo I do agree Biffle was wrong to complain and say Kyle didn't beat him, NASCAR did because as we all saw Kyle clearly passed him an ran away.
I do understand his frustration with the total SNAFU's that were going on by the officials. How could the drivers have a clue what was happening, the officials didn't?
 
fox was confused when they were talking about who was lapped and all that towards the end...i think biffle went around the pacecar because he was picked up in the wrong place, and truex got the free pass, but i don't know who the third car was.

i believe what biffle is complaining about is that if he wouldn't have been penalized, he could have come in on the last caution and taken 4 fresh tires like kyle did, and wouldn't have gotten beat. busch might not have had a better car, he might have passed greg because of the fresh tires.
 
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