How is Kyle going to lose the Championship?

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vanzetti

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This is not a bash against Kyle, just a hunch that I've had for a long time that I can't shake.

"Kyle B. will not win the Championship this year."


I was having real trouble figuring out this might happen with a 60-70 pt cushion, but now it looks like Carl is going to really give him a run for his money.

So here's my projection of how it will go down: Kyle will lose the lead for good in the 6th race of the chase to Carl when his luck runs outs (tire, crash, caught on pit road...)

Just had to get it out there...

Any other guesses on how it'll all go down? (Kyle can win for all I care...) This is your chance to say... "See, I KNEW it would happen that way!"

Have fun! :cheers:
 
That very well could happen. It took Johnson a year or so of losing before he won. The only thing is that Kyle has been pretty steady all year long and though he's due for a draught, this just could be his year. The one thing that could throw a wrench in his dream would be for him to start trying to do more than he can. Yeah, I know many of you already believe that he is doing this now, but it looks more like great driving to me. If he starts thinking that everyone is out to get him, he just might hit the wall.
 
This is not a bash against Kyle, just a hunch that I've had for a long time that I can't shake.

"Kyle B. will not win the Championship this year."


I was having real trouble figuring out this might happen with a 60-70 pt cushion, but now it looks like Carl is going to really give him a run for his money.

So here's my projection of how it will go down: Kyle will lose the lead for good in the 6th race of the chase to Carl when his luck runs outs (tire, crash, caught on pit road...)

Just had to get it out there...

Any other guesses on how it'll all go down? (Kyle can win for all I care...) This is your chance to say... "See, I KNEW it would happen that way!"

Have fun! :cheers:

His arrogance will take him out. :)
 
I'm thinking he and Carl will be caught up a couple more times and Jimmie or Junior will capitalize. hey, I can hope can't i?
 
I'm thinking he and Carl will be caught up a couple more times and Jimmie or Junior will capitalize. hey, I can hope can't i?

Well I hope it doesn't come down to that, I reeeaaalllly don't want JJ to win another championship.

But I do think the pressure could be on now, and it could be very intersting down the stretch. Their average finishes over the last few races has been unbelievably similar, almost equaling each other.
 
If not his arrogance he's owed a few 'rubbin is racin' bumps. I can see where someone just might give him a shot as payback and ruin his chances. Of course that never happens among professional drivers. :sarcasm:He's not exactly on everyone's Christmas card list.
 
If Flipper or Wildthing don't win the championship, the Chase will be seen as the most irrelevant playoff system in organized sports.
 
that 48 team is good in the second half. I think they'll take 3 or 4 races. Wild thing's aggression will take him out by getting too loose in a turn trying to overdrive the car, or maybe start or at least get caught in the big one at dega. Edwards will have several top 10's, but no cigars. It will be all 3 if not a few others with their name in the hat at homestead.
 
If not his arrogance he's owed a few 'rubbin is racin' bumps. I can see where someone just might give him a shot as payback and ruin his chances. Of course that never happens among professional drivers. :sarcasm:He's not exactly on everyone's Christmas card list.

Which drivers do you think are out to get him? Truck series drivers? Maybe Harvick by proxy. Kyle has made some bonehead moves in the truck series this year.

Have you heard DRIVERS badmouthing Kyle? Who? Most of the driver interviews I've seen are usually them talking about just being beat by the 18 team. This includes his former teammates Johnson and Gordon. Whether that is just being politically correct or not is hard to tell. Even Carl never bad mouthed or expressed any hard feelings for Kyle until Saturday night when he was all high and mighty trying to justify why he couldn't race Kyle clean for the win. Of course he had the all-time biggest whiner in NASCAR cheering him on. Roush.

It's mostly fans of other drivers, such as Jr. that hate him and the media stirring that pot.

Take the blinders off folks.
 
Have you heard DRIVERS badmouthing Kyle?

NASCAR has effectively muzzled drivers, crews, & owners from making derogatory comments with the threat of fines but more importantly the loss of points by using their famous "actions detrimental" rule also known as "Thou shall not speak bad of others, especially on tv where millions may just get the hint we're not the one big happy family we portray to be."

I know a guy who just moved on from hauling one teams showcars around the country. According to him what we see and read in the media is sanitized and doesn't include 90% of what goes on behind the scenes. In the past some info he gave me didn't come to light until weeks later, so yes I trusted what he said.

FWIW he used to haul Ricky Rudds cars around and Ricky Rudd is a class guy. When he shut down his team Dave went to work for another team and no I won't tell you who. :)
 
NASCAR has effectively muzzled drivers, crews, & owners from making derogatory comments with the threat of fines but more importantly the loss of points by using their famous "actions detrimental" rule also known as "Thou shall not speak bad of others, especially on tv where millions may just get the hint we're not the one big happy family we portray to be."

I know a guy who just moved on from hauling one teams showcars around the country. According to him what we see and read in the media is sanitized and doesn't include 90% of what goes on behind the scenes. In the past the some info he gave me didn't come to light until weeks later, so yes I trusted what he said.

FWIW he used to haul Ricky Rudds cars around and Ricky Rudd is a class guy. When he shut down his team Dave went to work for another team and no I won't tell you who. :)

I'm sure that's the reason for the "nascar confidential" show, to make us think that they're showing us what goes on behind the scenes, but I'm sure that the show is super sanitized as well. There's no way they'd ever let us really see anything close as to what's actually going on behind the scenes.
 
Even Carl never bad mouthed or expressed any hard feelings for Kyle until Saturday night when he was all high and mighty trying to justify why he couldn't race Kyle clean for the win. Of course he had the all-time biggest whiner in NASCAR cheering him on. Roush.
It's mostly fans of other drivers, such as Jr. that hate him and the media stirring that pot. Take the blinders off folks.


Carl, high and mighty ?????
Hell, I thought Carl's comments were not only appropriate but right on the money. Edwards offered no apology for his action and did not make any excuses for his action.
In a later conversation, where Joe Gibb's referenced a Biblical quotation, "we reap what we sow", Edwards agreed with Gibbs.
The short side was, reverend Joe Gibbs apparently had a temporary loss of memory as he failed to recall instances where his drivers, which include Kyle, have performed the same surgery in pursuit of a win.

Edwards action was not dirty driving. It was an aggressive move and one, were the situation reversed, we would be sitting here making the same defense on behalf of Kyle Busch as is being made now for Carl Edwards.

It doesn't seem to me people hate Kyle Busch. In reading most of the posts about him, Kyle's talents are recognized and openly admitted. Some people take their driver too seriously and they are usually the target of others.

As for the media stirring the pot, it is their job to write what they observe and I saw no negative articles against Kyle Busch regarding this situation other than his conduct on the cool down lap being less than stellular.

NASCAR is a contact sport at times out of necessity. When Kyle banged Edwards AFTER the race ended, he was wrong. That is the "pot stirring" noted by the media and writing it that way is justified.

Seems to me the blinders are firmly locked on the accuser rather than the media, Junior fans or fans of other drivers.
 
According to him what we see and read in the media is sanitized and doesn't include 90% of what goes on behind the scenes. In the past some info he gave me didn't come to light until weeks later, so yes I trusted what he said.

The news media regarding information from and about NASCAR, is not as tight as it used to be. There was a time when NASCAR so closely held credentials and media passes, if anyone broke the NASCAR golden rule of, thou shalt not speak evil of NASCAR or against rulings by the mother organization because those who did faced loss of their credentials.

No question there are things are not totally available and some have a lid on them, but from days prior to the year 2000, it is a lot better than it was previously.
These days, there is too much accessibility to teams, team members, sponsors, and numerous other sources of inside information, it is nearly impossible for NASCAR to strangle news they want suppressed as they did in the past.
 
I don't think Kyle will lose the championship unless his team suddenly starts missing the mark once the Chase begins. Edwards has the only legit shot at beating him. If they are off, Edwards will win. But they have been too good all year long.

None of the others are consistant enough to compete for the top. Junior is too up and down with boneheaded mistakes by he and his crew. Gordon is more off than on, Johnson isn't his usual self. Stewart, Biffle, Harvick, and Kenseth haven't won a race yet.
 
Carl, high and mighty ?????
Hell, I thought Carl's comments were not only appropriate but right on the money. Edwards offered no apology for his action and did not make any excuses for his action.
In a later conversation, where Joe Gibb's referenced a Biblical quotation, "we reap what we sow", Edwards agreed with Gibbs.
The short side was, reverend Joe Gibbs apparently had a temporary loss of memory as he failed to recall instances where his drivers, which include Kyle, have performed the same surgery in pursuit of a win.

Edwards action was not dirty driving. It was an aggressive move and one, were the situation reversed, we would be sitting here making the same defense on behalf of Kyle Busch as is being made now for Carl Edwards.

It doesn't seem to me people hate Kyle Busch. In reading most of the posts about him, Kyle's talents are recognized and openly admitted. Some people take their driver too seriously and they are usually the target of others.

As for the media stirring the pot, it is their job to write what they observe and I saw no negative articles against Kyle Busch regarding this situation other than his conduct on the cool down lap being less than stellular.

NASCAR is a contact sport at times out of necessity. When Kyle banged Edwards AFTER the race ended, he was wrong. That is the "pot stirring" noted by the media and writing it that way is justified.

Seems to me the blinders are firmly locked on the accuser rather than the media, Junior fans or fans of other drivers.


1st there are those on this board and from listening to the Pit Lane on the radio those that will crucify Kyle regardless while others get a free pass. And I have no doubt that Kyle wouldn't have punted Carl if he'd had the chance. Tho I don't see where Carl and others did anything wrong. He didn't spin him out or put him in the wall or wreck others.

As to Kyle, he's just not very smart in front of the mic. He should have said that he went up to give Carl a congratulatory bump like we've seen drivers do hundreds of times but he just hit him a little harder than he anticipated. And that he was really sorry that Carl over reacted the way he did. After all its all in how its presented.
 
The crap he pulled after the race was over at Bristol will loose him the title. Hes going to end up getting docked points if he keeps using the bumper to much.
 
see to me the post race stuff back fired on him. He was trying to put on a show by slamming him and driving away. Carl ruined it by not giving him the last word and spinning him right then and there. To me that was just good short track racing. Actually that was pretty clean short track racing compared to some of the stuff i see week in and week out in other racing. People forget if carl wanted to he could have put kyle to the infield if he wanted to. Then people saying he drove him dirty would be right.
 
If Flipper or Wildthing don't win the championship, the Chase will be seen as the most irrelevant playoff system in organized sports.

Ummmm Andy, Jeff would have TWO more championships if not for the "playoff system." He still had more points than Jimmie last year. I guess you forgot about that? Look at the season Gordon had in 2007. People thought for sure that was his year for another championship. Jimmie started with more "bonus" points, but Jeff had more points. They traded off for a few times with first and then Jimmie went on an incredible run during the "play offs." Jeff wasn't too shabby in it either and he still lost. Look at the stats he had. You'd certainly think he had to win the championship. Anything can happen. Anything.

So maybe this year this "playoff" system may just help someone else win. Of course, I'd love it to be Jeff, but it really could be anyone. Chit happens in races. Right now it seems like for sure it has to be Carl or Kyle. I guess we'll know for sure come Homestead.
 
NASCAR is a contact sport at times out of necessity. When Kyle banged Edwards AFTER the race ended, he was wrong. That is the "pot stirring" noted by the media and writing it that way is justified.

I was listening to Kyle Petty on "Tradin' Paint" and I agree with what he was saying. The "tiff" between Carl and Kyle was great for Nascar in that it got everyone talking and the fans loved it. However, he said the reason he thought they deserved the penalties was because it happened after the race and there were other cars in various places on the track. Some of the other drivers were still in their cars and unstrapped, etc., and their antics could have hurt someone else not involved. I agree with that. Now I have no doubt if Kyle could have gotten back up to Carl during the race and did a better bump than he tried, he would have done the same thing. Good for him if he did. He just didn't make it and Carl did. So good for Carl. Whatever..bump and run - hasn't that always been a part of racing? :)
 
Ummmm Andy, Jeff would have TWO more championships if not for the "playoff system." He still had more points than Jimmie last year.

One for sure, two is debatable. I know Gordon fans go on about '04. But Johnson had a huge lead and they used the last 5 or so races before the Chase to do some R&D work. His huge lead got small. If there was no Chase, no way Gordon catches Johnson that year unless they have an epic meltdown.

Johnson is heating up at the right time and will be a factor. It would be funny of a Stewart or a Biffle, drivers with no wins, heat up and end up winning the whole thing.
 
One for sure, two is debatable. I know Gordon fans go on about '04. But Johnson had a huge lead and they used the last 5 or so races before the Chase to do some R&D work. His huge lead got small. If there was no Chase, no way Gordon catches Johnson that year unless they have an epic meltdown.

Johnson is heating up at the right time and will be a factor. It would be funny of a Stewart or a Biffle, drivers with no wins, heat up and end up winning the whole thing.

I would love to see that. I mean, I like the way Nascar has finally begun to give more weight to winning, but to see someone win a championship with no wins would be pretty classic:D
 
It would show how ridiculous the Chase format really is.
I'll agree 100% if Johnson wins again.

It's starting to look like you only have to be solid (and not even consistent) for 26 races and competitive for 10.
 
From ESPN

Gordon on points leader Busch: 'It's hard to bet against Kyle'
By David Newton
ESPN.com

RICHMOND, Va. -- Kyle Busch was leading 212 laps into Sunday's Sprint Cup race at Richmond International Raceway, in position for his ninth win of an amazing season, when Dale Earnhardt Jr. got into his left-rear quarter panel as the two fought for position.
Busch spun out, causing enough damage to put him a lap down in 38th place and sending the crowd -- recalling the incident between the two going for the win late in the May race -- into a frenzy.
He spun out again on Lap 224 after contact from Elliott Sadler.
He finished 15th.
Perhaps that's why former Hendrick Motorsports teammate Jeff Gordon said on Friday that Roush Fenway Racing's Carl Edwards and two-time defending champion Jimmie Johnson were more ready to win the Championship Chase than the 23-year-old points leader.
"Kyle, he has the ability to go really hard, really fast, and he's made big improvement this year over last year," the four-time Cup champion said. "I'd certainly put him at the top or in the top three or four guys who really has a shot at this championship.
"But I would put Carl ahead of him as far as being ready experiencewise, and I'd put Jimmie ahead of both of those guys with just his experience of winning the last two."
Gordon wasn't saying Busch, who will enter the 10-race Chase next weekend at New Hampshire Motor Speedway with a 30-point lead over Edwards, can't win the title. He wasn't saying Busch isn't ready to win his first title.
He simply said others were more ready than the new sheriff at Joe Gibbs Racing who has won 18 times this season, combining his victories in the Cup, Nationwide and Truck series.
Tony Stewart (20) beats Kyle Busch out of the pits during Sunday's Sprint Cup race at Richmond.
"Last year when he drove for us, there wasn't a single practice that they didn't have to knock out the right side on the car," Gordon said of Busch. "This year it seems to be like every fifth race that happens.
"So he's still doing it a little bit, which isn't a bad thing he's pushing that hard. That's why he runs fast and they've won a bunch of races, so he's gotten more comfortable."
Johnson said the same thing a few weeks earlier. He also believes Busch is ready to take the throne in NASCAR's premier series.
"Definitely," he said. "He's shown that all year long. I've said all along, even when he was a teammate with us, once he figures out how to win a race he's not going to stop, and he's done that.
"I feel the same [way] for a championship."
Busch has built what might have been an insurmountable lead under the old points system not only by winning more races during the first 26 events than anybody since the Chase format was introduced in 2004, but by also being more consistent.
That he rallied to finish as high as he did Sunday was almost as impressive as Johnson's victory, his second straight and fourth of the year.
The only thing that could seemingly get in the way of Busch's taking the crystal trophy given out at Homestead-Miami Speedway is Busch himself.
"He's been his own enemy at times with trying too hard and being too aggressive and forcing things," Johnson said. "I think Kyle is figuring that out and is going to be a serious threat this year and for the years to come in the championship."
Busch's maturity never was more evident than the July race at Daytona International Speedway. He nearly wrecked on Lap 83, but instead of pushing and spinning out of control as he might have in the past, Busch went down on the apron to gather his car.
He fell all the way to the back of the field, but patiently worked his way to the front for his second win in three weeks.
"He just chilled and said, 'Whatever, I'm going to make it through this corner,'" said Alan Gustafson, Busch's crew chief at HMS. "That was a champion-caliber move there. You might not have seen that out of him earlier in his career.
He's been his own enemy at times with trying too hard and being too aggressive and forcing things. I think Kyle is figuring that out and is going to be a serious threat this year and for the years to come in the championship.
-- Jimmie Johnson
"You knew it was there. It's no surprise to me."
Gordon was equally impressed with Busch's save from the Earnhardt incident, which both drivers agreed was Earnhardt's fault for not giving enough room.
"I saw a heck of a save," Gordon said. "When I saw him start to spin I thought it would be tore up a lot worse than he was."
Not to suggest that Busch isn't as aggressive as he's always been. He showed that in the May race at Richmond when he got into the side of Earnhardt, spinning out NASCAR's most popular driver and having to settle for second place.
For the record, Earnhardt insisted Sunday's incident wasn't revenge.
Regardless, Busch doesn't make as many stupid mistakes as he did in winning only four races in three seasons at HMS.
"He's aggressive in the right way," Johnson said. "He can get in there and lean on someone without wrecking them. You can intimidate someone without knocking the side off their car. You can run a fast lap without knocking your own right side off your car.
"And if you think about how many times you've seen them pounding out the right side on one of his cars," he added, laughing, "the guy is just using every inch of the track."
Busch understands why some might be skeptical of his championship chances. He agreed that Johnson and Edwards are his stiffest challengers for the title, primarily because they've been strong at mile-and-a-half tracks, which will make up half the Chase.
"The 48 and 99 are the ones I'm most worried about," Busch said.
But he's not afraid of them, and he certainly like his chances better this Chase than the previous two.
"It's a lot better to be at the top than it is at the bottom," said Busch, who finished 10th and fifth, respectively, in the two previous playoffs. "That makes it a lot prettier from our seat."
Many may be surprised by Busch's surge from good to great. Gustafson isn't among them. He saw greatness in the Las Vegas native from the day he stepped into the Truck Series for Roush Fenway Racing as a 16-year-old in 2001.
With a little luck, Gustafson said he and Busch could have been NASCAR's hottest tandem, the team the crowd loves to hate during prerace introductions and postrace celebrations, the one it unmercifully booed after the run-in with Earnhardt on Sunday.
"We were really close," he said. "I'm not going to say we could have won eight races, but we should have won more than we won."
Busch actually is right on schedule when you consider recent champions. Johnson won six races in his first two seasons at HMS before winning eight in his third. He didn't win a title until his fifth season.
Tony Stewart didn't win his first title until 2002, his fourth season. Kurt Busch didn't win his first title until 2004, his third season. Matt Kenseth didn't win a championship until 2003, his fourth year.
Gordon won only two races during his first two seasons and then exploded with seven in his third [1995] for his first championship.
Busch is in his fourth season.
"I always felt like he was a great driver," Gustafson said. "I was close enough to see it when a normal person wasn't there. The question with Kyle is are we going to say this is one of the greatest or is this the greatest? He's that good.
"That's what you've got to wait and see."
That and whether he's finished getting caught up in incidents like the one that cost him Sunday's race.
"Being prepared talentwise and being prepared mentally is a little bit of a different thing," Gordon said. "I'm always going to side with the guys running good and having experience.
"But it's hard to bet against Kyle. They're strong, real strong."
 
His arrogance will take him out
That is his downfall and if he tanks the chase, that will be the reason. If he can keep his head, he will win it.
 
Well, it's a long race ahead but this sure won't help his chances.
 
And NOW we see how this stupid Chase can ruin Kyle's chances and it wasn't his fault at all. It's ridiculous with all the points he had for the first 26 races is totally wiped out. I'm no fan and everyone knows it, but this is just wrong.
 
That's what I said the first year. We had a driver, Clint Boyer, who just a week ago was 762 points behind. No way could he have made it to 5th, 70 points out using the 'old' points system. Now he's 83 points out after todays race.

The "old" system rewarded consistancy, unfortunately there would have been almost no way to knock off the shrub.

This new system rewards luck, look at what happened today. He's now 74 in the hole from a mechanical failure. Not that I don't mind :) but a champion should be the one who ran the most consistantly, with the highest average finish and should have won at least one race.

As it is now a champion could be named who has a average finish of 7,8,9 maybe even 10th and not won a single race.

As usual NA$CAR got a brillant idea and now the pooch is walking funny...KWIM?

btw, I like Clint:)
 
Once again the complaints about the Chase make an appearance. Fair is fair and all play by the rules. Think about this...what would be the talk if for instance Kasey Kahne ends up winning three or four of the rest of the races? But then there will be those who have said, he had his chance to make the chase. The driver with the most wins in a year hasn't always won the title, even with the old system. I like the chase as it is more like other American professional sports. When the regular season is over, all the teams are even and it's called the playoffs. The only difference is that those drivers who aren't in the "playoffs" are still playing and can affect the outcome of each race.

There are those who still hate the designated hitter rule so I imagine that those who hate the Chase will hate it for the rest of their lives.
 
That's what I said the first year. We had a driver, Clint Boyer, who just a week ago was 762 points behind. No way could he have made it to 5th, 70 points out using the 'old' points system. Now he's 83 points out after todays race.

The "old" system rewarded consistancy, unfortunately there would have been almost no way to knock off the shrub.

This new system rewards luck, look at what happened today. He's now 74 in the hole from a mechanical failure. Not that I don't mind :) but a champion should be the one who ran the most consistantly, with the highest average finish and should have won at least one race.

As it is now a champion could be named who has a average finish of 7,8,9 maybe even 10th and not won a single race.

As usual NA$CAR got a brillant idea and now the pooch is walking funny...KWIM?

btw, I like Clint:)

But that part has never changed, consistency has long been the biggest factor in winning the cup. Look at the last championship before they institued the chase. Kenseth won the championship with a single race win, and in fact most likely would have won it even without that win. And others had won championships too with as few as 1 or 2 races all year long.

As much as I think there are things wrong with the chase, and there are many, at least now they are rewarding wins more than anything else, as it should be. I mean look at last year, and who won the championship, the one with the most wins. Not the one with the most 2nd, 3rd or 4th place finishes, but the one with the most wins, and really, IMO, that's what it should be all about....winning.
 
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