How to gain attendance...

cheesepuffs

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So I went to Loudon today, which was my first ever Cup race. And last Saturday I went to Fenway for a Rays - Sox game, which was my first ever major league baseball game. Allow me to compare/contrast the spectator experiences a bit.

I am a huge race fan. All forms. I've been following NASCAR heavily for almost 20 years and also watch F1 while also dabbling in IMSA and others. But the spectator experience at a Cup race just leaves me wanting more.

First of all, and I know this goes against conventional thinking, but I really think the fan experience would benefit from the cars being muffled. When the leader starts lapping the tail end of the pack and there is non-stop noise it's just too freaking loud. People today want to be social at events like this. At Fenway you can talk with your friends and socialize still. At NHMS you're in solitary.

Also, it would be difficult with the cars being so loud over the cashiers (unless they muffled them...), but it would be so much better to have food and beer stands within the confines of the grandstands. To walk out of your seat and out of the track to get food and a drink is a massively inconvenient. At Fenway there were food and beer stands never more than a few seconds walk away. And don't tell me there isn't any room for this stuff at tracks because there were TONS of empty seats today just like every weekend.

I also think the jumbotron at Loudon needs to be way bigger. It's way too small and the picture quality is low. Maybe even have multiple large screens placed around the track. Fenway has TVs in the stands as well as a MASSIVE and clear jumbotron that is very useful.

So those are my thoughts. Oddly enough I can't stand watching baseball on TV but really enjoyed it in person, and I love NASCAR on TV but don't care for it so much from the stands. What do you guys think?
 
One of the reasons for the increased noise is all the empty seats. I noticed at Dover as fewer and fewer people showed up it got louder and louder due to all the exposed metal reverberating the noise. In general, I don't think noise if that big of a deal at a race. I've been to a couple of big time college football games in SEC country and the noise difference imo is honestly not that different. If nothing else, I either have scanner headphones or ear plugs at race while I had no protection at the football game. I couldn't talk or hear right for about 2 days after those football games.

I was really taken back by today's crowd at NHIS. Attendance has obviously been down but today was a true eye opener. The race fans in New England have been a very loyal bunch historically which is why the crowd today was shocking. The track has way too many seats but even with 20k fewer it would still have looked sparse. Empty seats in general are not a big deal. If you watch races from the 80's and through early to mid 90's not every race sold out. It's the sheer number of empties that can't be ignored.
 
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I've been to Daytona a gazillion times, Dega, Charlotte, Atlanta, Martinsville, Bristol, and Homestead, and I can tell you the experience varies by track and per facility. Each place has something to offer that is unique to them and I definitely wouldn't let one visit to New Hampshire ruin your opinion of the in-person experience overall. I personally think NASCAR and hockey are the 2 greatest spectator sports in the world. I would visit a 1.5'er or a super speedway and see how you like that.

The noise at Bristol was unlike anything I've ever heard, could not speak to the person I was with until a caution flew, but I was so in awe of being there that I didn't even care. Martinsville I didn't find to be all that bad, probably due to the lower speeds and sitting up a littler higher. I think you may have just had a one-off bad experience. I say give it another go at a larger track with nicer facilities.
 
So I went to Loudon today, which was my first ever Cup race. And last Saturday I went to Fenway for a Rays - Sox game, which was my first ever major league baseball game. Allow me to compare/contrast the spectator experiences a bit.

I am a huge race fan. All forms. I've been following NASCAR heavily for almost 20 years and also watch F1 while also dabbling in IMSA and others. But the spectator experience at a Cup race just leaves me wanting more.

First of all, and I know this goes against conventional thinking, but I really think the fan experience would benefit from the cars being muffled. When the leader starts lapping the tail end of the pack and there is non-stop noise it's just too freaking loud. People today want to be social at events like this. At Fenway you can talk with your friends and socialize still. At NHMS you're in solitary.

Also, it would be difficult with the cars being so loud over the cashiers (unless they muffled them...), but it would be so much better to have food and beer stands within the confines of the grandstands. To walk out of your seat and out of the track to get food and a drink is a massively inconvenient. At Fenway there were food and beer stands never more than a few seconds walk away. And don't tell me there isn't any room for this stuff at tracks because there were TONS of empty seats today just like every weekend.

I also think the jumbotron at Loudon needs to be way bigger. It's way too small and the picture quality is low. Maybe even have multiple large screens placed around the track. Fenway has TVs in the stands as well as a MASSIVE and clear jumbotron that is very useful.

So those are my thoughts. Oddly enough I can't stand watching baseball on TV but really enjoyed it in person, and I love NASCAR on TV but don't care for it so much from the stands. What do you guys think?

Did you rent a scanner?
 
Did you rent a scanner?

Yes. Which was great, except when you remember that it was 40 bucks (the cheapest one) and I believe you can listen to all 40 drivers radio chatter on your laptop for the whole season for 36 bucks.
 
Yes. Which was great, except when you remember that it was 40 bucks (the cheapest one) and I believe you can listen to all 40 drivers radio chatter on your laptop for the whole season for 36 bucks.

True. I have the sprint mobile app. I thought I could get away with just that and headphones but there is no way. No service in the stands for one, plus I just have ear buds that wouldn't work with the noise anyway. I was pretty happy with a 2-day rental at about $60.


As far as noise goes, the bigger tracks aren't as gnarly with the constant drone. Maybe give a larger track a go at some point.
 
Does seating level affect noise much? I was down low in row 6 today but I went to the late model/mods/truck race at loudon just last September and I can remember talking to my friends and being able to hear. We were sitting pretty high in the grandstand though.
 
Does seating level affect noise much? I was down low in row 6 today but I went to the late model/mods/truck race at loudon just last September and I can remember talking to my friends and being able to hear. We were sitting pretty high in the grandstand though.

Yeah I think so. At row six you are right on top of them. It still is LOUD regardless. I fkn love it, personally. Then again, I only seem to like loud ****.
 
I to noticed how poor the attendance at the race was. It was down right terrible. New hampshire in the past always had pretty good attendance. Still its probably my least favorite track the cars run on. I don't like seeing a car stuck in 18th place and can't go anywhere then due to circumstances gets up to 4th place and they are able to maintain that spot. that doesn't seem like racing to me and new hampshire is about the worse track there is for that sort of thing.
 
I feel like the fall crowd will be larger.
 
One of the best things about attending any racing event is the thundering noise and the tremors it creates in your body as the cars go by. It's comparable to a rock/metal concert. If you want easy listening and a relaxing atmosphere, stay away from both events. However, if you want a major adrenaline rush for a few hours and don't mind being physically sore and having your ears ring for days, then definitely attend those events in person.
 
I don't know what others think , but I rate NHMS as one of the most technically difficult tracks on the circuit. It's a flat track with very high speed corners. It took a lot of lives back in the day . Maybe, because it's so difficult , it doesn't produce a lot of side by side racing, but I like it.
 
Why attendance sucked this year... last year they took out the turn 3 grandstands, lowered prices considerably, and had awesome 25th Anniversary sales. This year ticket prices went up track-wide (considerably...like $10-$15 more in EVERY section), package deals were more expensive, and the $25 tickets in turn 3 jumped the shark.

Saturday GA prices went up $10 as well if I recall.

2015 price map (fall race was nearly sold out): http://www.nhms.com/documents/2015_pricing_map.pdf

2016 price map (prices are higher than when I started going 10+ years ago during they heyday of the sport): http://www.nhms.com/documents/2016_grandstand_pricing_map.pdf
 
One of the best things about attending any racing event is the thundering noise and the tremors it creates in your body as the cars go by. It's comparable to a rock/metal concert. If you want easy listening and a relaxing atmosphere, stay away from both events. However, if you want a major adrenaline rush for a few hours and don't mind being physically sore and having your ears ring for days, then definitely attend those events in person.

That's the thing is that I don't think the noise and vibration is a "major adrenaline rush". I'm a car enthusiast. I know what cars sound like. When it's 40 of the same sound for 3 hours straight it isn't so special, not to mention I don't think Cup cars sound that great. V10 era F1 sounds amazing for example. But NASCAR 358s sound pretty blah to me as a spectator. It's kind of one dimensional to me to hear the same tone around the track all day. Not like a concert to me at all.
 
The concession locations vary by track in my experience. For example Darlington has concessions beneath the bleachers in somewhat of a close walking distance, and where I sit in Watkins Glen they are directly below the bleachers. You cannot beat the "bring your own" policy - big plus.
 
Why attendance sucked this year... last year they took out the turn 3 grandstands, lowered prices considerably, and had awesome 25th Anniversary sales. This year ticket prices went up track-wide (considerably...like $10-$15 more in EVERY section), package deals were more expensive, and the $25 tickets in turn 3 jumped the shark.

Saturday GA prices went up $10 as well if I recall.

2015 price map (fall race was nearly sold out): http://www.nhms.com/documents/2015_pricing_map.pdf

2016 price map (prices are higher than when I started going 10+ years ago during they heyday of the sport): http://www.nhms.com/documents/2016_grandstand_pricing_map.pdf


The 2016 NHMS ticket prices are consistent with the Phoenix races lately except Phoenix doesn't really set the price according to which row you are in, they do it by which grandstand you are in for the most part. So in the turn 1 grandstand, all of the tickets are 120 no matter which row you are in. Maybe the first 5 rows are 90. In the Turn 4 grandstand all tickets are around 100. The first 5 rows would be in the 80's.
 
I think ticket prices and the seating itself are issues at NASCAR races. If I'm paying $50+ to see a game, I better have a seat in a chair and not an aluminum bleacher. And there better be plenty of leg room, this isn't an airplane.

I think one thing that new fans aren't used to also is the fact that you can bring in your own coolers. I know that is something I'm still not up to speed on and it really is a great feature. The tracks probably don't want to advertise that as much because they want you to use the concession stands, but it is a great option to bring in your own food and beverage. I'm pretty sure you can't do that anywhere else.
 
I think ticket prices and the seating itself are issues at NASCAR races. If I'm paying $50+ to see a game, I better have a seat in a chair and not an aluminum bleacher. And there better be plenty of leg room, this isn't an airplane.

I think one thing that new fans aren't used to also is the fact that you can bring in your own coolers. I know that is something I'm still not up to speed on and it really is a great feature. The tracks probably don't want to advertise that as much because they want you to use the concession stands, but it is a great option to bring in your own food and beverage. I'm pretty sure you can't do that anywhere else.

Some people will pay upwards of $10,000 just to own the right (doesn't include actual per-game ticket cost) to an aluminum bleacher at a big time college football school. Granted, they can add a seatback at an additional cost. I have no problem with the current seating arrangements at tracks. Pocono widened their seats to cut capacity by about 20k over the last 5-6 years. A little more elbow room is fine by me. I'm close to 6'3 and never felt cramped at a race. The days of the old wooden front stretch bleachers at Dover are long gone.

I really don't see NASCAR as being very expensive to attend relative to other options. Hell, I paid $100 to attend the first round of the US Open at Oakmont and never set foot on the course due to the weather and the USGA crowd control rules relating to it.
 
.... Hell, I paid $100 to attend the first round of the US Open at Oakmont and never set foot on the course due to the weather and the USGA crowd control rules relating to it.
I have a co-worker who went to Oakmont. I watched it on the tube. When he got back, I mentioned that it looked like the spectators were kept a considerable distance from the tees, fairways, and greens. My first tournament experience was at Valhalla (Louisville, KY) two years ago, and the ropes were usually no more than five yards separated from the holes; often closer. He agreed about Oakmont, saying he rarely got within 30 yards of any 'inbounds' area, often further away, and that as a fan it was one of the least spectator-friendly tournaments he'd been to. He felt that going to the Masters every couple of years had spoiled him. He's originally from the Pittsburgh area but said he'd never go back to Oakmont.

In short, you may be out the money but you weren't going to see much anyway.
 
I think one reason you see vendors at ball games but not at races is because there aren't enough events at a track to make it worth being a vendor. At a stick and ball facility, there are plenty of scheduled events to make it worth getting a job working the stands. What are there, 80+ home baseball games? I don't know how many basketball and hockey games are in those seasons, but I'm sure it's over 60 each. Some of them overlap in the same facility, giving those vendors seasons in multiple sports.

Y'all have also overlooked that at many tracks, some the concession facilities are operated by charities or non-profits. I've seen Boy and Girl Scouts, military support groups from nearby forts and bases, booster clubs for high school bands and teams, etc. They rent use of the concession kitchen and equipment, and they aren't equipped to work the stands.
 
Why don't more tracks reach out to former ticket holders with sweet deals to try and get them back? My family attended every Cup race at Dover from September 1990 until September 2010. Why the hell would the track not try to reach out to us in an attempt to lure us back? They need all the help they can get with attendance.

Every track out there should get in contact with former ticket holders with enticing incentives to get them back. I promise you a 1 time 2 for $50 or 4/$100 dollar ticket deal would get us back to Dover in the fall. Which in turn could very well get us back next June at a higher but fair price.

Hell, we've been ticket holders at Pocono for over 30 consecutive years.
 
That's the thing is that I don't think the noise and vibration is a "major adrenaline rush". I'm a car enthusiast. I know what cars sound like. When it's 40 of the same sound for 3 hours straight it isn't so special, not to mention I don't think Cup cars sound that great. V10 era F1 sounds amazing for example. But NASCAR 358s sound pretty blah to me as a spectator. It's kind of one dimensional to me to hear the same tone around the track all day. Not like a concert to me at all.
LOL......... If you don't like the sound of the 358 V-8s....... you should have been at the track when Busch ran the V-6s.... sounded like a pack of bumblebees....... It was so refreshing to hear the Cup cars out for Happy Hour..... of course the 358's are nothing compared to the sound of the old Big Blocks...... The chest pounding thump is what is most enjoyable to me....
 
I have a co-worker who went to Oakmont. I watched it on the tube. When he got back, I mentioned that it looked like the spectators were kept a considerable distance from the tees, fairways, and greens. My first tournament experience was at Valhalla (Louisville, KY) two years ago, and the ropes were usually no more than five yards separated from the holes; often closer. He agreed about Oakmont, saying he rarely got within 30 yards of any 'inbounds' area, often further away, and that as a fan it was one of the least spectator-friendly tournaments he'd been to. He felt that going to the Masters every couple of years had spoiled him. He's originally from the Pittsburgh area but said he'd never go back to Oakmont.

In short, you may be out the money but you weren't going to see much anyway.

It was a very frustrating chain of events that day. We took the shuttle for a local mall which was our first mistake. Anytime play is suspended the USGA and state police do not allow anymore people to enter the course. Any busses en-route are told to turn back to mall. What makes it worse is that the security check is before you get on the bus. When you return you must go back through security. After we got back to the mall we waited out the weather day and decided to try again. As we waited to get through security more storms start popping up. By the time we boarded the bus and got to the course it was clear all hell was going to break lose soon. We made decision to stay on the bus and head back to the car. It was the right call as all hell broke lose about 30 minutes and play was called for the day. Wasted money on a hotel, ticket and rental car.

If Pocono wasn't the same weekend as the PGA I'd go. Damn Olympics....
 
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Why don't more tracks reach out to former ticket holders with sweet deals to try and get them back? My family attended every Cup race at Dover from September 1990 until September 2010. Why the hell would the track not try to reach out to us in an attempt to lure us back? They need all the help they can get with attendance.

Every track out there should get in contact with former ticket holders with enticing incentives to get them back. I promise you a 1 time 2 for $50 or 4/$100 dollar ticket deal would get us back to Dover in the fall. Which in turn could very well get us back next June at a higher but fair price.

Hell, we've been ticket holders at Pocono for over 30 consecutive years.
Maybe it's just an ISC and SMS thing but we get offers from the tracks we used to attend all the time. They are always offering us some kind of deal. Dover is just one of the tracks that we get offers from. Bristol, Charlotte, Richmond are a few others. Heck, Martinsville keeps sending us deals but mainly for new ticket purchases. I called them last year after receiving an offer for free pit passes for the purchase of a seat. I asked what they'd do for me as a long time ticket holder. They sent us a pit pass for each of our purchased tickets so I was good with that. Maybe all it takes is a call? Wouldn't hurt.
 
Lower ticket prices. They are just way too high for someone interested in attending their first race. It's been the toughest part in getting my buddies to go to a race with me, they don't really wanna drop $70 on something they do not really follow
 
Why don't more tracks reach out to former ticket holders with sweet deals to try and get them back? My family attended every Cup race at Dover from September 1990 until September 2010. Why the hell would the track not try to reach out to us in an attempt to lure us back? They need all the help they can get with attendance.

Every track out there should get in contact with former ticket holders with enticing incentives to get them back. I promise you a 1 time 2 for $50 or 4/$100 dollar ticket deal would get us back to Dover in the fall. Which in turn could very well get us back next June at a higher but fair price.

Hell, we've been ticket holders at Pocono for over 30 consecutive years.
I like this idea. I went to Dover a couple times , then , as I was winding down going to races, I got a notice that Dover was rebuilding their turn 4 grandstands . They had put up some temporary grandstands and were offering any seats for $30.00 a piece. I talked to a few buddies and we made a spur of the moment decision to go. Likely cost us $500 apiece for rooms , but the cheap ticket deal was what it took to get us in the car.
 
Lower ticket prices. They are just way too high for someone interested in attending their first race. It's been the toughest part in getting my buddies to go to a race with me, they don't really wanna drop $70 on something they do not really follow
$45 for Martinsville. If that's too much then they need to look for a BINGO game somewhere to peak their excitement. I hear that can be done on the cheap.

Seriously though, I guess we all look at these things differently. $70 for a Cup race doesn't seem out of line at all to me. Then again, I really love this sport and I am thoroughly entertained each and every time I go to a race. I pay far more for Steelers or Penguins and occasionally Pirate tickets. It's all what you want to make out of it.
 
So I went to Loudon today, which was my first ever Cup race. And last Saturday I went to Fenway for a Rays - Sox game, which was my first ever major league baseball game. Allow me to compare/contrast the spectator experiences a bit.

I am a huge race fan. All forms. I've been following NASCAR heavily for almost 20 years and also watch F1 while also dabbling in IMSA and others. But the spectator experience at a Cup race just leaves me wanting more.

First of all, and I know this goes against conventional thinking, but I really think the fan experience would benefit from the cars being muffled. When the leader starts lapping the tail end of the pack and there is non-stop noise it's just too freaking loud. People today want to be social at events like this. At Fenway you can talk with your friends and socialize still. At NHMS you're in solitary.

Also, it would be difficult with the cars being so loud over the cashiers (unless they muffled them...), but it would be so much better to have food and beer stands within the confines of the grandstands. To walk out of your seat and out of the track to get food and a drink is a massively inconvenient. At Fenway there were food and beer stands never more than a few seconds walk away. And don't tell me there isn't any room for this stuff at tracks because there were TONS of empty seats today just like every weekend.

I also think the jumbotron at Loudon needs to be way bigger. It's way too small and the picture quality is low. Maybe even have multiple large screens placed around the track. Fenway has TVs in the stands as well as a MASSIVE and clear jumbotron that is very useful.

So those are my thoughts. Oddly enough I can't stand watching baseball on TV but really enjoyed it in person, and I love NASCAR on TV but don't care for it so much from the stands. What do you guys think?
 
I really enjoyed reading your perspectives. I can't watch baseball on TV either but do enjoy seeing MLB, AAA or AA games in person and in terms of Nascar racing for me the best bet is to record the race and if it is worth watching continue on or just delete or fast forward.

I use disposable earplugs at my local short track and when I attended Nascar races I always used them at tracks 1 mile or shorter. At Dega, Charlotte, MIS and the Brickyard they were not necessary for me. I wear earplugs for lots of things including some social events as I can hear just fine but at a better volume. I listen to a lot of music at higher volumes and never use ear plugs and the same goes for football and hockey games.

IMO attendance will continue to erode at many Nascar events and can't be changed due to shifting tastes. I am sure Nascar will always exist in one form or another but the majority of Nascar fans are fossils when it comes to demographics and with no new young blood coming in Nascar has to contract in some areas and TV viewership and race attendance obviously point to that truth.
 
Why don't more tracks reach out to former ticket holders with sweet deals to try and get them back? My family attended every Cup race at Dover from September 1990 until September 2010. Why the hell would the track not try to reach out to us in an attempt to lure us back? They need all the help they can get with attendance.

Every track out there should get in contact with former ticket holders with enticing incentives to get them back. I promise you a 1 time 2 for $50 or 4/$100 dollar ticket deal would get us back to Dover in the fall. Which in turn could very well get us back next June at a higher but fair price.

Hell, we've been ticket holders at Pocono for over 30 consecutive years.

I had Bristol, Darlington and Dega contact me by phone and then by mail trying to lure me back but I always declined. You could tell that the people at the other end of the line had heard a lot of the same things I was saying and they didn't have an answer for it. The Readers Digest version of what I told them was that I did not like the COT or the direction the series was headed in and I could not foresee a day when I would ever see another Nascar sanctioned event live. When I caught myself yawning at the Bristol night race I knew it was time to spend my time on other things.
 
Why don't more tracks reach out to former ticket holders with sweet deals to try and get them back? My family attended every Cup race at Dover from September 1990 until September 2010. Why the hell would the track not try to reach out to us in an attempt to lure us back? They need all the help they can get with attendance.
You haven't been contacted? Heck, I get ticket offers from almost every track I've been to. I haven't been to Richmond in 8 or 9 years and I still get mail from the occasionally. I definitely get it from Charlotte, Darlington, Atlanta, and Bristol; I haven't been to those last two in at least five. And if they have your e-mail address, you'll never get rid of them without a spam filter.
 
It was a very frustrating chain of events that day. We took the shuttle for a local mall which was our first mistake. Anytime play is suspended the USGA and state police do not allow anymore people to enter the course. Any busses en-route are told to turn back to mall. What makes it worse is that the security check is before you get on the bus. When you return you must go back through security. After we got back to the mall we waited out the weather day and decided to try again. As we waited to get through security more storms start popping up. By the time we boarded the bus and got to the course it was clear all hell was going to break lose soon. We made decision to stay on the bus and head back to the car. It was the right call as all hell broke lose about 30 minutes and play was called for the day. Wasted money on a hotel, ticket and rental car.

If Pocono wasn't the same weekend as the PGA I'd go. Damn Olympics....
Valhalla ran buses from the U. of Louisville lots to the course in the pouring rain that Friday morning. We wandered around between some holes in ankle-deep water. The course treated us the same way they had in the sunshine the day before. Once it quit and they dried the course, play resumed around 9:30. Plenty of room to sprawl around in the grandstands at tees and greens, right up against the ropes on the fairways. It was well after 1:00 before the crowds build back up to normal tournament levels. We were a pack of soggy rats, but we were able to actually see more golf in three hours than we saw in eight the day before.

We got into the PGA Championship for free on the first two days because we were military veterans. All we had to do was go to the 'Will Call' window and flash our IDs. NASCAR could definitely do that for qualifying, and should consider it for support (not standalone) races.
 
$45 for Martinsville. If that's too much then they need to look for a BINGO game somewhere to peak their excitement. I hear that can be done on the cheap.

Seriously though, I guess we all look at these things differently. $70 for a Cup race doesn't seem out of line at all to me. Then again, I really love this sport and I am thoroughly entertained each and every time I go to a race. I pay far more for Steelers or Penguins and occasionally Pirate tickets. It's all what you want to make out of it.

I agree to me it's not either but to those on the fringe it is
 
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