How would you restructure to points?

VaDirt

VaDirt

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Personally, I think the chase isn't a bad idea. It at least brings some life into the end of the season, where too many times in the past the champion was decided 3,4,5 races out. I also like the way they tweaked it last year, with adding wins into the equation and ranking the drivers and bonus points for wins.

So, how would you restructure the points? It's pretty much a sure bet that Nascar will either keep the chase, or completely restructure the points (like they did back in '72).
 
Eliminate the points for leading A lap. Car running 32nd stays out and leads a lap when those ahead of him pit and he's rewarded.

Stay tuned, there's more but have to run for now.
 
Since it is all about WINNING, I have thought for years the WINNER of each race should get many, many more points than 2ed place! Nascar would like all the cars to be close in points because it APPEARS to make them more EQUAL..
This, of course, would make the winners stand out from the non-winning cars. Which in turn would show lop-sided points between the winning teams and the not winning teams.
The CHASE is purely, an advertising tactic. The CHASE has already robbed the deserving team at least twice that I can think of. If the CHAMPION is to be the champion of the YEAR, then all points accumulated must be added to arrive at the champion team.

We do need a points system that would create a desire to WIN every race and not just come in being in the top ten.. Too many teams are way too happy with a top ten finish..

How about 150 points for winning and 25 points for leading 10 laps or more and then the same points as we have now for everything else?
Betsy
 
OMG I'm sure every driver "oh I sure would be happy with a top ten today"
Every driver wants to win but they don't so when they get out on the track and realize that their car is'nt capable if winning then they say "I would be happy with a top 10 or 5, hell teams like #78,#00,#70,#10 #15 and so on would love a top 10.
 
SST55 said:
Eliminate the points for leading A lap. Car running 32nd stays out and leads a lap when those ahead of him pit and he's rewarded.

Stay tuned, there's more but have to run for now.
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I agree. No points for leading a lap under caution.

As to points to the winner, since it is possible that we will have a champion that hasn't won a race why not have the Chase consist of race winners. There would be 10 this year. Then maybe a past champions provision but with a healthy penalty where they are well behind the others.
 
VaDirt said:
But that's not really choice by itself Andy, pay attention. :rolleyes:
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Add variety to the Chase.

First, run the last 10 races at venues you don't run regular season races at. No notes, no prior setups to revert to. And add some variety. Maybe alternate a few places. The same driver (Jimmie Johnson) is going to win the Chase every year if they keeps things the same as it is now because they don't run at tracks Jimmie struggles at (Bristol, Sonoma).

I'd run the Chase at:

Kentucky Speedway (1.5 mile)
Nashville Speedway (1.25 mile concrete)
Rockingham Raceway Park (everybody knows this track by now:growl:)
Iowa Speedway (.85 mile D-shaped oval)
Toyota Speedway at Irwindale (.5 mile progressively banked half-mile)
Thunderbolt Raceway @ New Jersey Motorsports Park (2.25 mile 14-turn road course:growl:)
The Springfield Mile (1 mile dirt oval:growl:)
Texas World Speedway (2 mile d-shaped oval, abrasive aged surface)
Kansas Speedway (only because this is their only date as is)
Homestead-Miami Speedway (1.5 mile oval, world finale for IRL and NASCAR)
 
DanicaRules said:
I have to agree with this point. Get rid of the chase.
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The NHRA added this element of stupid to its points championship as well. :mad:

It's called "Countdown To 1."















Why would they do such an asinine thing?


















Because it'll be more exciting and help them compete with NASCAR.


















1. NASCAR will NEVER be as exciting as Drag Racing.




2. If you want to compete with NASCAR, try doing something NASCAR doesn't do like sticking to tradition. Give me 1320, nitro, and keep the same points system that's worked for dozens of years. Drag Racing's been exciting without some idiotic welfare points system.









Wally Parks must be rolling in his grave right now. :(
 
VaDirt, Andy just doesn't get the question, but what the heck, this isn't the first time nor will it be the last.

As to the question at hand...

I would keep the chase but won't limit it to 10 or 12 or whatever. It would be in flux each year. Here's how you reach the chase.

1. Any winner automatically makes the chase
2. Only the top ten in each race get points with twenty points between positions 1 through 5 and ten points between positions 6 through 10 and only one point for leading a race under green flag conditions.
3. After the first 26 races, the top ten make the chase, plus any race winners and the next driver out of the top ten with the most top five finishes. If that is a tie, then the most top tens. (wild card position)
4. The chase starts off with everyone equal.
5. During the chase, there would also be a second chase of the also rans with the same scoring. Sure would make those also rans try to make the top ten during a race. Mix it up with the main chasers. :)
That would sure shake up the scoring and it would make for some hot racing in the chase as well.
 
Andy, this is NOT an NHRA thread, and nobody asked for your thought on NHRA points:mad:
 
VaDirt said:
Andy, this is NOT an NHRA thread, and nobody asked for your thought on NHRA points:mad:
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But...but...NHRA is the only racing there is in the whole world...everything else is just a pretender. So if Nascar copies everything NHRA then it might approach real racing in a small way. Y'all SpitCup Nascrap necks just don't understand.... :D
 
It's simple...return to the old points system. The chase penalizes the driver/team that has kicked butt all season by eliminating their lead over the field. It also allows non-deserving drivers (like Jimmie Johnson) to steal Championships away from deserving drivers (like Jeff Gordon). It changes the rules in the middle of the game.
Why not remove 2 bases in baseball? Some of those guys that can't run or bat consistently or run as fast as the others should have a short cut...
Maybe the worst team in the NFL should only have to make it to the 50 yard line to score a touchdown...
THE CHASE SUCKS!!!!!
It eliminates all the records set so far in the sport of NASCAR. Richard Petty will no longer be the King. The King will eventually be some punk kid that years ago wouldn't be worthy of driving a hauler...
Just my two cents.
 
Maybe they should have a regular season champ and then go on for the chase.
 
Someone in another posting mentioned the NFL playoffs. Ok, do it like this. The top 12 get to race by themselves. Those that finish 9-12 get shot.:eek: Next week 1-8 race, last 4 finishers get shot.:eek: Next week 1-4 race, 2-3-4 get shot :eek:and we have a champion who shows he has drive and incentive:D

Bet you think I'm kidding, don't ya?:)
 
BobbyFord said:
It's simple...return to the old points system. The chase penalizes the driver/team that has kicked butt all season by eliminating their lead over the field. It also allows non-deserving drivers (like Jimmie Johnson) to steal Championships away from deserving drivers (like Jeff Gordon). It changes the rules in the middle of the game.
Why not remove 2 bases in baseball? Some of those guys that can't run or bat consistently or run as fast as the others should have a short cut...
Maybe the worst team in the NFL should only have to make it to the 50 yard line to score a touchdown...
THE CHASE SUCKS!!!!!
It eliminates all the records set so far in the sport of NASCAR. Richard Petty will no longer be the King. The King will eventually be some punk kid that years ago wouldn't be worthy of driving a hauler...
Just my two cents.
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I disagree with some of this. The problem with the old system is that it didn't reward winning over consistency. In fact, until just a couple years ago, the second place finisher could have scored more points that the winner, and that dam sure ain't right.

And saying Johnson isn't deserving (and it really hurts me to say this as much as I can't stand it), he did win 10 races last year, including a string of 4 in a row at the end of the season.

And since you want to bring up comparisons to football, look at it this way (since your analogies are way off base...): Say an NFL team goes undefeated for the entire season, then loses in the playoffs to some wildcard team who went 10-6. Both teams played on the same field, but the one with the best record in the first part of the season got beat when it counted. Should they be the champions just because they won the most games early on?

And how does the chase eliminate records? As far as I can tell, those records are still standing, unless you can tell me exactly which records aren't anymore because of the chase.

Now as far as the worst team getting a shortcut, I'll aggree with you when Michael Waltrip makes the chase....
 
VaDirt said:
...And how does the chase eliminate records? As far as I can tell, those records are still standing, unless you can tell me exactly which records aren't anymore because of the chase.....
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Jimmie was "given" championships that should have been Gordon's, based on points going into the Chase "for the tails". Points that he clearly could not have made up under the old format. Those are the ones that were eliminated. If it wasn't for the chase format Jimmie Johnson would NOT have two championships. How can they change the rules in the middle of the game?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Total BS. It worked just fine when Petty won 7. It worked just fine when Earnhardt won 7. Worked just fine when Gordon won 4. Now they're going to allow drivers that have no chance of winning 7 OR 4 under the old point system the opportunity to possibly break those older records under an easier format. Total CRAP.
 
VaDirt said:
I disagree with some of this. The problem with the old system is that it didn't reward winning over consistency. In fact, until just a couple years ago, the second place finisher could have scored more points that the winner, and that dam sure ain't right.

And saying Johnson isn't deserving (and it really hurts me to say this as much as I can't stand it), he did win 10 races last year, including a string of 4 in a row at the end of the season.

And since you want to bring up comparisons to football, look at it this way (since your analogies are way off base...): Say an NFL team goes undefeated for the entire season, then loses in the playoffs to some wildcard team who went 10-6. Both teams played on the same field, but the one with the best record in the first part of the season got beat when it counted. Should they be the champions just because they won the most games early on?

And how does the chase eliminate records? As far as I can tell, those records are still standing, unless you can tell me exactly which records aren't anymore because of the chase.

Now as far as the worst team getting a shortcut, I'll aggree with you when Michael Waltrip makes the chase....
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VA dirt your comparison to football is waaay off the mark.. In this sport the teams face the SAME OTHER teams all season. So at the end of the season the teams with the most points over the OTHER teams should be the season winner!
ANY other way of scoring, i.e. the "chase" is simply not giving the TRUE season CHAMPION the championship! Having the top twelve or however many, racing the last ten races for the championship, is BOGUS!
The "chase" is simply a way of trying to attract viewers during the football season. Without caring who wins the title.. As long as money is to be made by the management, they care not how fair the scoring system is... remember all the phantom yellows when one or more cars were breaking away?
Betsy :rolleyes:
 
VaDirt said:
And since you want to bring up comparisons to football, look at it this way (since your analogies are way off base...): Say an NFL team goes undefeated for the entire season, then loses in the playoffs to some wildcard team who went 10-6. Both teams played on the same field, but the one with the best record in the first part of the season got beat when it counted. Should they be the champions just because they won the most games early on?
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You wouldn't be talking about the New England Patriots, would you? :confused:

:XXROFL:

Football and NASCAR, two different sports.

NFL Playoffs = exciting, meaningfull.

Chase = dumb, idiotic.

You coming to the Pro Stock Open? Need to let me know so I can reserve a ticket. :beerbang: That and you need to come here to get race fuel since Royce has all the racing fuel in the State of Maryland. :sarcasm:
 
BobbyFord said:
Total BS. It worked just fine when Petty won 7. It worked just fine when Earnhardt won 7. Worked just fine when Gordon won 4. Now they're going to allow drivers that have no chance of winning 7 OR 4 under the old point system the opportunity to possibly break those older records under an easier format. Total CRAP.
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Andy, before you were born, Petty won a few titles with a totally different points scheme. There were times when he made more point (way more) finishing far back in the pack than did the winner. NASCAR changed to the system you like in 1972, again before you were even born.

So how many championships are you going to take away from the King?
 
BobbyFord said:
Jimmie was "given" championships that should have been Gordon's, based on points going into the Chase "for the tails". Points that he clearly could not have made up under the old format. Those are the ones that were eliminated. If it wasn't for the chase format Jimmie Johnson would NOT have two championships. How can they change the rules in the middle of the game?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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"Given" the championship???!!! Seriously, again, they guy won almost TWICE as many races last year as the man second in points. How is that bieng "given" the championship? Wins, according to the old system, were worthless. Like I said, until only the last couple years, the second place guy could have earned more points that the winner, and even now wins are only a slight margin better than 2nd and back. Now THAT is, and always has been, BS. And remember, the points and rules apply to EVERYONE. They all have a chance to shine when it matters most and Gordon and his guys didn't shine...Johnson did (damn, that hurts to say....I can't stand Johnson).. And they also ALL know at the beginning of the season that any huge lead they might build up over the first 26 races will be gone come race 27, unless they get the most (here it comes..) WINS.

Total BS. It worked just fine when Petty won 7. It worked just fine when Earnhardt won 7. Worked just fine when Gordon won 4. Now they're going to allow drivers that have no chance of winning 7 OR 4 under the old point system the opportunity to possibly break those older records under an easier format. Total CRAP.
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Please tell me who's going to break who's records, and how they're going to do it? And what records they're going to break under the new format? Face it, the point system has changed, and all the drivers have accepted it and moved on.
 
buckaroo said:
Andy, before you were born, Petty won a few titles with a totally different points scheme. There were times when he made more point (way more) finishing far back in the pack than did the winner. NASCAR changed to the system you like in 1972, again before you were even born.

So how many championships are you going to take away from the King?
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So how many championships are you going to take away from the King? However many someone surpasses him by under the current monkey system. NASCAR is in the business of giving away trophies now. Just my opinion...the current system sucks gym socks.

I was at races in '72 and prior. I ain't no spring bok-bok. Pop's took me to races when I was still in diapers. I remember Riverside and Ontario. My only point here is that the Chase system sucks on dirty socks.
I was at drag races, too at a young age. I got picture of my mom pregnant with me in the pits at several races. Pop's had a 365 fuel injected chevy on alcohol in a motorcycle. I've been breathing race fumes my whole life :)
 
Well, there's still no way I'll feel the Chase championships have as much meaning as they did when Richard won back before '72 and after. The Chase champions are the champs of only 10 races, period. You just can't compare them with any old system. Whether Richard got more points or not, he was still the best for a WHOLE season, not the last 10 races. They also ran way more races which made it impossible to acquire the same amount of points later as it was. While it was changed after '72, it still was more meaningful than this system. FWIW
 
WNY24Fan said:
Well, there's still no way I'll feel the Chase championships have as much meaning as they did when Richard won back before '72 and after. The Chase champions are the champs of only 10 races, period. You just can't compare them with any old system. Whether Richard got more points or not, he was still the best for a WHOLE season, not the last 10 races. They also ran way more races which made it impossible to acquire the same amount of points later as it was. While it was changed after '72, it still was more meaningful than this system. FWIW
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^YUP^ :D
 
Well, I'm going to go off the deep end here. I have 2 schemes in mind for a new point system.

1st --- Give each driver points equal to their finishing position. 1st=1 point, 2nd = 2 points, etc., down to 43pts for finishing 43rd. No points for winning. The kicker --- the driver with the FEWEST points wins.

2nd -- Give 1 pt for the pole, 1 bonus point for winning, then 43pts for the winner. 2nd gets 42 pts. on down to 1 pt for finishing 43. Driver with the highest point total wins. Or, as a variant, no points for pole or a win.
 
VaDirt said:
Face it, the point system has changed, and all the drivers have accepted it and moved on.
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Pesonally I think some of you are missing the big picture.
In the past some of the races on the tail end of the schedule were the backwater of the sport. In years when a driver had a big point lead at the end of the summer, the races did little to determine who would win what was then known as the Winston Cup, awarded to that season's best driver.

The increased drama for the race has resulted in a corresponding increase in interest. Homestead has been busy adding luxury boxes to meet the increased demand for corporate entertaining.

"Before the Chase, we were barely selling the suites out," said track President Curtis Gray said of his previous inventory of 50 suites. "Last year we had to bring in 12 temporary suites. This year we're building 16 new suites, and those are sold out. We'll be putting up some new temporary suites too."

Nascar's chase races will probably always have a hard time going head-to-head in the ratings battle with the still more popular National Football League. The lack of NFL games earlier in the summer is a key reason for Nascar's stronger ratings before the chase begins.

But Nascar says it's hopeful the ratings for the chase races will continue to build as it becomes more established.

"We realize it will take time to build equity and meaning into the chase," said spokesman Andrew Giangola. "In 1967, when they held the first Super Bowl, America did not come to a halt to watch the game the way it does now."
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For those of you who think the Chase or the Championship is about the best driver frankly needs to take a class in Economics 101. It's about the money. Always has been, always will be.
 
BobbyFord said:
So how many championships are you going to take away from the King? However many someone surpasses him by under the current monkey system. NASCAR is in the business of giving away trophies now. Just my opinion...the current system sucks gym socks.
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Who's taking away championships from the King? From Earnhardt? And franky, as I've said before, the old system sucked too. Really, all one had to do was run around in the top 5 or ten all year long, keep your luck together, and you could win a championship. Wins should count in this sport, and the old system, they didn't count for much.

And as far as some monkey winning multiple championships under the current "monkey system," only one driver has done that so far, and quite frankly, I think if the old system were in place, that team would figure out a way to play that game to their advantage as well...they are that damn good.

I was at races in '72 and prior. I ain't no spring bok-bok. Pop's took me to races when I was still in diapers. I remember Riverside and Ontario. My only point here is that the Chase system sucks on dirty socks.
I was at drag races, too at a young age. I got picture of my mom pregnant with me in the pits at several races. Pop's had a 365 fuel injected chevy on alcohol in a motorcycle. I've been breathing race fumes my whole life :)
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But '72 was 36 years ago. The cars are different, the drivers are different, that points are different. It's a completely different sport, and will never go back to what it was.
 
VaDirt said:
But '72 was 36 years ago. The cars are different, the drivers are different, that points are different. It's a completely different sport, and will never go back to what it was.
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And that my friends, is the state of NASCAR today compared to five years ago. And that's the name of that tune...sadly to say.
 
King Richard drove from 1958 to 1992, 200 wins, 7 championships. Total lifetime earnings of $7,755,409.00.
Newman won $1,506,040 for winning Daytona this year. Boyer has only $3,439.270 in total earnings to date this year, the lowest earnings of any in the chase.
yep, things have changed.:huh:
 
barelypure said:
For those of you who think the Chase or the Championship is about the best driver frankly needs to take a class in Economics 101. It's about the money. Always has been, always will be.
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Let's talk economics.

I have to save up about as much as a New York vacation would cost to pay for a race.

It's becoming too expensive. As much as it costs for a pathetic NASCAR race, I'd rather take the 2 hour drive up to Hagerstown Speedway. At least I know I'm gonna get some side-by-side racing there and not this one groove train racing "the new car" and Goodyear give us.:rolleyes:

If they want to keep the Chase, fine. But the biggest problem with it is that The Chase is at the most boring racetracks in NASCAR.

Loudon.

Texas.

Auto Club Speedway.

Only exciting races in The Chase are Martinsville, 'Dega and Homestead. And I'm guessing Homestead's gonna be a snoozer now with this COT given its breathtaking:sarcasm: performance at the other big tracks this year.
 
Did you read what I posted? The numbers are up at the tracks that are in the Chase compared to what they were before the Chase. That is their bottom line. And that is all that matters.
I realize that at your age this may come as a total shock to you but at some point you will need to hear this so let me be the 1st...THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU. There are other people with other likes and dislikes that may, just may, and I know this is hard for you to understand, have a different agenda than you.
And, you can't even poll the people here and get a true sampling as those on a message board would tend to be more vested than casual fans who go to a race. Besides every race can't be a 10, as some of you like to rate them. It is this mentality that thinks everything needs to be a 10 that has got us where we are. For a race to be a 10 then there also needs to be a 4. Otherwise a 10 will lose our interest as it becomes the norm and we start wanting something more exciting. And sometimes that just isn't possible.
That's one reason why I stopped rating races. Some of the expectations were unrealistic.
 
barelypure said:
Did you read what I posted? The numbers are up at the tracks that are in the Chase compared to what they were before the Chase. That is their bottom line. And that is all that matters.
I realize that at your age this may come as a total shock to you but at some point you will need to hear this so let me be the 1st...THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU. There are other people with other likes and dislikes that may, just may, and I know this is hard for you to understand, have a different agenda than you.
And, you can't even poll the people here and get a true sampling as those on a message board would tend to be more vested than casual fans who go to a race. Besides every race can't be a 10, as some of you like to rate them. It is this mentality that thinks everything needs to be a 10 that has got us where we are. For a race to be a 10 then there also needs to be a 4. Otherwise a 10 will lose our interest as it becomes the norm and we start wanting something more exciting. And sometimes that just isn't possible.
That's one reason why I stopped rating races. Some of the expectations were unrealistic.
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The numbers were up. Will they be this year?

Now you have to look at things from another light. NASCAR races are going to have to become worthy of a family vacation budget.

Gas prices (here in Maryland at least) are skyrocketing because the oil companies continue to rape us.

The economy is crashing. People are losing their life savings because banks are going bankrupt and going under. Jobs are becoming harder to find. And we've had back-to-back hurricanes destroy homes and lives.

Richmond didn't sell out this year for the first time since the late-80s. And they won't be the last.
 
But very little of that is the fault of Nascar. Should they shut down their season because the gas prices, hotel, etc. went up? Should they really discount their tickets because the economy is tanking? Sure at some point they may have to make a correction but as long as people are willing to buy the tickets maybe they do like CLT and have a few more cheap seats and/or some gimmick like "all you can eat" tickets like CLT but to say they should cut their ticket prices in half really doesn't do much for a lot of fans. The ticket is one of the lowest costs of all the costs involved in going to a race. Many will spend more on adult beverages than the cost of the ticket. So blame Nascar but I don't think you're right.
 
barelypure said:
But very little of that is the fault of Nascar. Should they shut down their season because the gas prices, hotel, etc. went up? Should they really discount their tickets because the economy is tanking? Sure at some point they may have to make a correction but as long as people are willing to buy the tickets maybe they do like CLT and have a few more cheap seats and/or some gimmick like "all you can eat" tickets like CLT but to say they should cut their ticket prices in half really doesn't do much for a lot of fans. The ticket is one of the lowest costs of all the costs involved in going to a race. Many will spend more on adult beverages than the cost of the ticket. So blame Nascar but I don't think you're right.
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What I'm saying is the racing's not as good now. I'd rather spend the money to go to the local dirt track. And I'm sure there are many others who feel like I feel there.

Perhaps NASCAR/ISC should lower ticket prices. That might help. :idunno:
 
AndyMarquisLIVE said:
What I'm saying is the racing's not as good now. I'd rather spend the money to go to the local dirt track. And I'm sure there are many others who feel like I feel there.

Perhaps NASCAR/ISC should lower ticket prices. That might help. :idunno:
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Kinda funny reading that from you because NASCAR has geared what it has to youngster such as yourself. But of course, they don't know that you are a youngster that can't be satisfied, no matter what they do. So keeping that in mind, I'm sure that NASCAR, just as many of here, don't give a damn what you think. There will always be those who are negative with everything and we here know who that one person is.

Andy, you wouldn't like what NASCAR used to be, way back in the day. You see, the drivers then would intentionally put someone into the wall and come out and brag about it. And here's where it would get you. If a woman were to even show up in a car, you can bet the bank that she probably wouldn't make the first turn. Your special interest drivers wouldn't even show their face at the track.
 
It doesn't matter how I would restructure it, because it seems as though Jeff Gordon would just go have another season that would have won it under the last format.
 
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