If Jimmie Johnson were to become champ...

W

WindyCityRacer

Guest
What does that say about NASCAR? Or does it say anything at all? Wondering what your opinions are...

My personal opinion is that its probably not in NASCAR's best interest to have a rookie champ...maybe I'm wrong.
 
And how did you come to that conclusion, WindyCityRacer? What difference does it make if the champion is a rookie or a veteran? Is it because there are quite a few veterans that have never won? I say, let the best driver win, rookie or veteran. :satisfied
 
May the best driver over the course of a year win the championship! One thing for sure, a rookie champ will sure light a fire under some veterans butts to do better.
 
My point exactly...is he really the best driver? As a rookie? Seems hard to believe.

I think it makes a big difference majestyx. It sort of diminishes the "talent" aspect of driving and winning in NASCAR IMO...and sort of suggests to me that its more about having the strongest equipment and good luck. I realize that its a team sport...it requires everyone to perform at a high level all season long...and all that. But I think my original question is a question worth asking all the same...

Don't get me wrong...these guys are all talented. But one would expect a rookie to have some sort of learning curve...that might take a couple of seasons...? :confused:

Looking around the rest of the racing world...I'm hard pressed to remember any rookie champion. Naturally I'm not speaking of many of the junior formulas where nearly everyone is a rookie...
 
I think it would mean "he's the best driver for that year". Whatever year it is. I also think that they seem to have their learning curves more in their 2nd year of racing. For some reason it seems that way. IMO
I think I'd posted earlier that I think this would bring more interest to Nascar. How much money could you make with a hot young driver like JJ or Ryan. Younger fans (for those who don't fit in the DE Jr category). I'm thinking with all the talent out there right now it's making me know that racing will still be great when my guy and others decide to retire.
 
When you have Gordon's old cars, one would think you could perform good. Do I think he will win the championship? No. That will go to Mark Martin or Tony Stewart.
 
Originally posted by adjfan4ever
I think I'd posted earlier that I think this would bring more interest to Nascar. How much money could you make with a hot young driver like JJ or Ryan. Younger fans (for those who don't fit in the DE Jr category). I'm thinking with all the talent out there right now it's making me know that racing will still be great when my guy and others decide to retire.
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Agreed...I'm sure it will do a lot for NASCAR's popularity.
 
Originally posted by 66mustang
When you have Gordon's old cars, one would think you could perform good.
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66, you still have to know how to drive the car, no matter who's equipment you are driving. Not all of JJ's equipment is Gordon's hand-me-downs though. I still feel that the best driver will win the championship. Rookie or Veteran.
 
Originally posted by majestyx
66, you still have to know how to drive the car, no matter who's equipment you are driving.  Not all of JJ's equipment is Gordon's hand-me-downs though.  I still feel that the best driver will win the championship.  Rookie or Veteran.
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Doesn't everybody in Winston know how to drive? Heck, stick anybody else in Jeffo's old cars and they will perform good.
 
Some even go so far as to say that anyone that can graduate one of those Driving Schools can compete in NASCAR. After this year I think I might agree.

Where's the learning curve?
 
JJ has a shot at the title and could take the championship. No rookie has ever done that. Does this immediately qualify him as the top rookie of all time? Hardly, at least in IMO.

The championship race this year is shaping up somewhat differently than those in recent memory. It is very close , very much fun to watch, but to be honestly blunt somewhat lacking in performance. This is not a criticism, simply a statement of fact based observation.

Point leader Mark Martin is averaging 133 points per race to this point, an average that is lower than any champion since 1990, maybe further back than that but I only calulated since then. The lowest average over the years since 1990 was Alan Kulwicki in 1991 at 141. Extending MM and AK's averages over a 36 race schedule, Alan would be 288 points ahead at season's end.

Jimmy is averaging 132 points per race so far. How does this stack up against a couple of other super rookies?

In 1999 Tony Stewart averaged 140 points per race, Dale Earnhardt averaged 138 in his rookie year. Davey Allison averaged 128 his rookie season.

Those other rookies could most assuredly drive a race car. JJ can drive very well himself, this is not take away from his ability. To attest his success soley to the quality of the car is to turn a blind eye to the fact that we have seen the young man make very few mistakes. Indeed from this comfy chair it appears that his attributes as a driver far outweigh his liabilities of youth and inexperience.
 
Originally posted by paul
Some even go so far as to say that anyone that can graduate one of those Driving Schools can compete in NASCAR.  After this year I think I might agree.

Where's the learning curve?
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Are you saying that those driving schools are just that good, or that the level of competition in NASCAR is just that bad?

Personally, I'd rather not see a rookie win the championship. While I'd be able to brag to my (non-existent) grandchildren that I witnessed such a remarkable thing, it just doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather see a guy like Mark Martin win it. It would be a real shame if he raced so competitively all these years only to be upstaged late in his career by a couple of talented 20-somethings.
 
Yes, you might be able to compete, but the trick is compete as the same high level on a consistant basis. Sometimes the first year is based on adrenaline and excitement. The second year can be real trouble trying to keep the same level.

Also, I don't know that NASCAR will hand out a license based on your performance at a driving school. ;)
 
I'm saying that, perhaps, it's not that hard to drive a stock car. I've never done it so I can't say for sure, but if I had a Hendrick's car underneath me I bet you I could turn a hot lap.
 
Also, people keep saying JJ is using Jeff's old stuff. That may have been true at the first of the year, but since April/May, JJ's cars have been newly built in-house.
 
Oh definately, those are two seperate teams. I was saying that before when people kept going on and on about him running in Jeff's car, which is not true.

Just too bad that they couldn't drop some money into the #25 car when Nadeau was there. Did you hear that Jerry "overstayed his welcome" in the #25 car? Give me a break, what...did he ask one too many times for some decent equipment? Must be nice to have 2 extra cars just to milk sponsor money off of and dump into the other rides.
 
I just can't believe that Jimmie Johnson is competing for the championship in only his rookie year. The funny thing is he could win the championship and Ryan Newman could still walk away with the ROTY award!!!
 
Anyone think of a rookie champ yet?

I know Giancarlo Baghetti won the first F1 race he ever entered (only guy to do it)...but a rookie champ?
 
Five words, boys and girls: "Jeff's old cars" and "traction control"
nuff said.
 
Don't want JJ to win but, if he does, he's earned it. I do think that Nascar messing with the rules and tires has destroyed Dodges chances. Last few races they have been non existent. This late in the season is a terrible time to mess with the rules and tires. Looks too convenient to take one make out of the running.
 
Originally posted by RoyalOrange
Five words, boys and girls:  "Jeff's old cars" and "traction control"
nuff said.
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:ROFLMFAO:

Do you believe that? Really?:)
 
James Hylton is the only Rookie to very nearly get the Cup Championship, he finished 2nd in his rookie year. Tony finished 3rd in the points in his rookie year. I dont think either of them could truly be considered Rookies as is the case with Ryan or Jimmie. Tho this is their Rookie year in Cup I am sure that everyone familiar with the sport knows that they have been very competitive in racing for many years and that rookie stripe means very little. A drivers determination, ability to work well with their teams and the occasional stroke of luck come in to play with every drivers championship year.

You can hardly say that a certain "ride" or dollar amount will play the biggest role. If that were the case we would see the biggest dollar sponsorships in the top spots for points contention(Budweiser. UPS, Lowes, Goodwrench, Catapillar,....etc)

Kel
 
I agree that changing the rules this late in the season all in the name of parity makes NASCAR look like they are deciding the championship. Set the rule book at the beginning of the season and live with it.

I'd have no problems with JJ winning the championship although my hearts wishes for Mark. JJ's rookie status is inconsequential IMO. WC is ever increasing in popularity and all drivers (I think) are being schooled in good PR. JJ could handle his championship crown without difficulties. Best driver?? for the year the champ holds that title but only for one year no matter who he is.

I heard more than once that Jerry Nadaeu was spending too much time trying to diagnosis problems and offering solutions instead of telling the CC what the car was doing. Anybody else hear this or anything different?

As far as Jeff's old cars and Terry getting the "bad equipement" boy those issues have been debated to death and rather nastily in other forums glad you guys are civil at least. JJ has some of Jeff's old cars but also new cars. His team and his abilities makes him successful. The 24 team gave the 48 team some of their cars to get them up and running and JJ capitalized on the opportunity. Good for them. Terry??? I haven't a clue. I dont think Terry would stay in a team if he was getting the shaft. I refuse to believe that. Has he lost some fire from within? I see such a change in Mark from last year when he was not competitive. He's got that fire back in his eyes. Bill has a bounce in his step as well. If the 5 team could get things turned around Terry would also. These guys seem to lose confidence in themselves pretty quickly if things dont go right.


Sorry guys and gals. I should have warned you I can get pretty long winded at times. Can you bare with me??
:) :)
 
I can bare with you too.........I get rather windy too.:)

BTW.......I don't think I welcomed you. Welcome to forum. We generally have lots of fun.:)
 
Originally posted by abooja
Are you saying that those driving schools are just that good, or that the level of competition in NASCAR is just that bad?

Personally, I'd rather not see a rookie win the championship. While I'd be able to brag to my (non-existent) grandchildren that I witnessed such a remarkable thing, it just doesn't sit well with me. I'd rather see a guy like Mark Martin win it. It would be a real shame if he raced so competitively all these years only to be upstaged late in his career by a couple of talented 20-somethings.
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Its called COMPETITION! The Better man wins.....wether it be Martin or a Rookie like JJ or Newman. It shouln't make a dif if a rookie wins. What the hell is the diff when a baseball team goes to the World Series and names a rookie of the year from that winning team?....They do it every year. It should be no different with racing. Think about IT! DUH! You people who don't like the idea are talking like Nascar is scripted, and they can control it. If you want that stay away from racing and watch WWE!
 
I don't think theres nothing wrong with haveing a rookie champ. How many rookies are there competing each year on average, 2 or 3 against 40 or 39 others that are better or just as good as them. How many of those rookies had the same equipment as the other drivers out there?? How many of them got experience from other series?? I think everything has led up to a rookie champ. Records are made to be broken but just like it takes everyting to happen right for anyone to win the cup the same token is applied to rookies.If it don't happen this year I think it will eventually.
 
Dale Junior says that NASCAR success is 80% team/car and 20% driver.

Jimmie would be doing poorly if he was with a low budget team (as most rookies pre-late 90s had to endure), just the way the ball bounces.
 
Originally posted by gordon24fan
Wasn't the first guy ever to win a championship a rookie?
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Haha :p

I thought of a rookie champ by the way...Juan Montoya - 1999 Rookie CART champion. I think everyone looked at him though (including Sir Frank Williams) and said..."wow...now that kid is something else!"

I can't help but think (as many of the old guard WC guys do incidentally) that JJ's equipment is to blame for his success...There's a fine line there, I know...but when you have guys like Michael Waltrip and Rudd say that "well, if I had a chance in a top team when I was a kid, I'd be winning races too" tells me that its less about the driver and more about the car/team.
 
Not much of an open wheel fan myself, but didn't Montoya hop into a championship car in CART? And hasn't he done poorly in F1 with an under-funded team?

Perhaps somebody with more knowledge of Montoya can fill in the details.
 
Yes...Montoya definitely had equipment. But speaking with engineers and actually just watching him on the track...he was so much on the limit it was incredible.

As one Toyota exec. once told me..."Montoya crashes every single lap...you just don't see it." Referring to his data...and his ability to drive at the limit.

Montoya is doing very well in F1...he is driving for the BMW-Williams a very well funded team. Montoya sits 3rd in the championship between Michael Schumacher and Rubens Barrichello of Ferrari. Juan is ahead of his teammate however...and has outqualified him in just about every race this season.

Ferrari is in a class of their own this year though.
 
Originally posted by WindyCityRacer
Haha :p  

I can't help but think (as many of the old guard WC guys do incidentally) that JJ's equipment is to blame for his success...There's a fine line there, I know...but when you have guys like Michael Waltrip and Rudd say that "well, if I had a chance in a top team when I was a kid, I'd be winning races too" tells me that its less about the driver and more about the car/team.
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The car has the majority of responsibility for the teams successes or failures. Even the best drivers have bad days when the car wont handle right. The difference the drivers makes is that good drivers can get the best out of the car and finish where the car is capable. Good drivers can communicate exactly what the car is doing and what he needs and good teams can make the correct changes. I think it's far to say that pre-Gordon all the teams had a three tier system and put rookies in older equipement and they moved up to newer, better equipement as they improved. Times have changed and the teams are doing a better job in scouting and bringing talented drivers into WC and giving them the equipement to showcase their abilities. And why not, Hendrick and Penske lood pretty darn smart right now.
 
Originally posted by DUPONT_24_fan
Its called COMPETITION! The Better man wins.....wether it be Martin or a Rookie like JJ or Newman. It shouln't make a dif if a rookie wins. What the hell is the diff when a baseball team goes to the World Series and names a rookie of the year from that winning team?....They do it every year. It should be no different with racing. Think about IT! DUH! You people who don't like the idea are talking like Nascar is scripted, and they can control it. If you want that stay away from racing and watch WWE!
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You're absolutely right, Dupe. I think I'll quit NASCAR and start watching wrestling!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by abooja
You're absolutely right, Dupe. I think I'll quit NASCAR and start watching wrestling!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rolleyes:
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Well I am right!.....Y'all are acting like Nascar has control over who wins and loses. Duh THINK about it, ITS CALLED R A C I N G, and the faster and better driver wins!!!!!!!
 
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