IMSA 2023

FLRacingFan said:
Why is it a bad look for the series? They cheated their competitors and the series at the biggest race of the year. They don’t deserve anything nor are they entitled to anything. No one wants to associate with them now. The ultimate FAFO.
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Maybe a blessing in disguise to focus on IndyCar.

God I feel awful for Colin Braun. Worked his tail off to get where he is, now he's out of a ride again.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Why is it a bad look for the series?
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It looks bad because the currently defending series, Rolex 24 and Petite champions might not be on the grid next year. Nobody looks good when something like this happens.
FLRacingFan said:
They cheated their competitors and the series at the biggest race of the year.
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I admit they did all of this to themselves. It's just unfortunate some people who weren't even involved in the cheating could lose their jobs.
FLRacingFan said:
They don’t deserve anything nor are they entitled to anything. No one wants to associate with them now. The ultimate FAFO.
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Again, if he could actually buy a car, we wouldn't lose a good team.
 
Kiante said:
Maybe a blessing in disguise to focus on IndyCar.

God I feel awful for Colin Braun. Worked his tail off to get where he is, now he's out of a ride again.
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Yeah, they have a lot of work to do on the IndyCar sign with Blomqvist being back in single seaters for the first time in several years, and the general level of that team falling the last couple of seasons.

Idk where Colin could wind up but I do hope he finds a landing place. To get only one year at the top level and be screwed out of the gig sucks.
 
Doc Austin said:
It looks bad because the currently defending series, Rolex 24 and Petite champions might not be on the grid next year. Nobody looks good when something like this happens.

I admit they did all of this to themselves. It's just unfortunate some people who weren't even involved in the cheating could lose their jobs.

Again, if he could actually buy a car, we wouldn't lose a good team.
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It’s not really anyone’s fault but theirs, I just don’t see how this is the fault of the series or the manufacturers. Even as far as establishing a customer relationship they’re pretty much the last team anyone wants to sell to.

Porsche have other customers to prioritize next year, Cadillac won’t start selling customer cars until 2025. BMW is busy and stretched enough expanding into WEC next year.

They’ve said they’re retaining their staff to work on IndyCar and other projects so that doesn’t really seem to be an issue.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It’s not really anyone’s fault but theirs, I just don’t see how this is the fault of the series or the manufacturers.
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I don't disagree at all. It's just a shame to lose a good entry. IMSA did their part with the fine and the points docking, but that doesn't seem to be enough for Acura. It's harsh, but Shank did it to themselves.

No, I'm definitely not OK with cheating, but this is the first time I've seen it lead to a team not being able to compete the next year.

FLRacingFan said:
Even as far as establishing a customer relationship they’re pretty much the last team anyone wants to sell to.
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No one is required to sell cars anyway.

There's got to be more to this than we know. You would think a manufacturer would scoop them right up, but they seem more interested in hoarding equipment. This needs to change if we want the series to grow, and the same with WEC.
FLRacingFan said:
Porsche have other customers to prioritize next year, Cadillac won’t start selling customer cars until 2025. BMW is busy and stretched enough expanding into WEC next year.
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So far, Porsche has done their share.

That's the first I have heard about Cadillac, but since they have been in IMSA they have constancy been the ones to step up and sell cars, so I'm not that surprised.
FLRacingFan said:
They’ve said they’re retaining their staff to work on IndyCar and other projects so that doesn’t really seem to be an issue.
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When we saw Mikey was going to get an Acura we were all excited we would be getting another great entry, but instead we get one and we lose one. So, from a net perspective I think we're all disappointed. That and some of us are MSR fans. I also am pretty high on Braun and hope he gets something good.
 
Doc Austin said:
There's got to be more to this than we know. You would think a manufacturer would scoop them right up, but they seem more interested in hoarding equipment. This needs to change if we want the series to grow, and the same with WEC.
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Here's my slightly informed hypothesis: in order to run in IMSA in GTP, you need to do what with IMSA?

You need to meet IMSA criteria for eligibility - that means you must be an OEM, you must sell cars in America, and you must agree to the series' commercial agreements.

OK, fine, so what does that mean? Well, let's look at Indycar to help inform us. In Indycar, the two engine manufacturers are commercial partners with the series who sponsor events, pay for TV advertising, do activation around Indycar, etc. in addition to providing support to teams (this ranges from simulator time to reduced cost on parts/labor). As such, when the discussion about increasing the number of leased engines comes up, the manufacturers push back citing that the cost of the engines is effectively subsidized and as such they would only lose more money leasing more engines. Because the costs I described which have nothing to do with the mechanics of the engine are all within their budgets for Indycar participation, that's really what they're talking about. To further expound on this: these are costs which 30 years ago were absorbed primarily by tobacco companies for all series.

IMSA is no different. The commercial agreements are about sponsorship, advertising spend, and activation and the OEM requirement is to ensure that the entity that is agreeing to do this with IMSA is sufficiently capitalized to not leave lots of people on the hook and thus tarnish the identity of IMSA. Those barriers are also ones which will naturally reduce the number of available cars, because the budgets for the manufacturers include all these other costs so that IMSA doesn't pay for them. If GM has to figure out how to get more simulator time for more drivers because they sold 15 customer GTP chassis, well, that means they also have to buy more simulators and more staff to run the simulator and administrative staff to pay and hire and do HR work for the people running the simulator and find space for the simulator (rented or purchased) and incur costs for maintenance to the physical plant of running the simulator. And that's like just one component of this.

So, in short: IMSA is not going to completely turn the clock back to the days of the 917 or Group C because the economics have changed and the financial demands have shifted back to the manufacturers in a way that was not the case until the 1970s.
 
Doc Austin said:
I don't disagree at all. It's just a shame to lose a good entry. IMSA did their part with the fine and the points docking, but that doesn't seem to be enough for Acura. It's harsh, but Shank did it to themselves.

No, I'm definitely not OK with cheating, but this is the first time I've seen it lead to a team not being able to compete the next year.


No one is required to sell cars anyway.

There's got to be more to this than we know. You would think a manufacturer would scoop them right up, but they seem more interested in hoarding equipment. This needs to change if we want the series to grow, and the same with WEC.

So far, Porsche has done their share.

That's the first I have heard about Cadillac, but since they have been in IMSA they have constancy been the ones to step up and sell cars, so I'm not that surprised.

When we saw Mikey was going to get an Acura we were all excited we would be getting another great entry, but instead we get one and we lose one. So, from a net perspective I think we're all disappointed. That and some of us are MSR fans. I also am pretty high on Braun and hope he gets something good.
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Well, we also need to consider the timetable for a program coming together is much shorter this year than ever, since they opened up entries early so they can announce them in full next week at Petit. There’s so much demand for grid space these days it’s not like years of the past where you could get something finalized in late December and be ready to go.

They are likely going to have to be flexible if they really want to come back. It wouldn’t be very difficult to find a funded driver and start an LMP2 program again, but that doesn’t seem to be what they’re looking for. Acura/HPD were paying them to race one of their cars, and then they decided it would be best to give WTR/Andretti both of them - which, given the circumstances, is fair.

Cadillac starting customer sales in ‘25 is something I heard on the most recent Week in Sports Cars podcast with Pruett and Goodwin, so it’s far from official, but they’re typically well in the know. Alpine is also trying to get into the States, and I could conceivably see them doing so that year too. They’d have a year of WEC under their belt and may be ready for expansion then. There’s a possible link between MSR and Alpine with Auto Nation, too.
 
Just to further muck everything up in talking finance and racing - I think the difference between the haves and have nots in racing by and large has been reduced in scope because of the transition to spec cars and institution of cost caps in the likes of F1. However, the overall barriers to entry and costs to reach the grid are far higher than they were two generations ago in any form of motorsports. This is because of specialization of labor, the introduction of composite materials which are virtually impossible to develop in a small team garage setting, and the increased (any?) focus on driver safety. I recall recently hearing that the last driver to win a World of Outlaws race showing up with a flatbed trailer was Christopher Bell at I-55 Speedway back in 2015. Point to mentioning that is this is true across the entirety of motorsports and has been true for awhile. The little guy literally cannot compete at this point in almost any national touring series at this point, and Bell in 2015 had the advantage of manufacturer support and the car/trailer in question being owned by Keith Kunz, the most successful midget team owner of all time.

(I would be remiss to note that sports car racing in the 1980s boom also had money coming in from the likes of drug traffickers. I'm not gonna say whether or not I'm pro drugs here or if it was cool and rebellious to do or whatever because that seems corny and well trod ground, but the rules about entry to the series today also are intended to try and keep out some of those sorts of folks. Would Porsche in 2024 sell a car to Randy Lanier, much less Scott Tucker? Yeah, that's my opinion too.)

We've collectively traded the backmarkers of Minardi, Dick Simon, and Dave Marcis for a more equitable distribution of money and talent but fewer overall names and teams. Is that good? I leave it to you to decide.
 
Kiante said:
Pfaff is switching to McLaren!
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Wow! Good to see another manufacturer joining the Pro ranks, that class is gonna grow quite a bit in 2024. Unfortunately since it seems to be manufacturer-backed they’ll be dropping the plaid for more of a McLaren corporate look, but that’s a small price to pay.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Wow! Good to see another manufacturer joining the Pro ranks, that class is gonna grow quite a bit in 2024. Unfortunately since it seems to be manufacturer-backed they’ll be dropping the plaid for more of a McLaren corporate look, but that’s a small price to pay.
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Nothing has been said about Inception, I wonder if they continue running McLarens in GTD Daytona?
 
Kiante said:
Nothing has been said about Inception, I wonder if they continue running McLarens in GTD Daytona?
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I can’t seem to find it right now, but I read not too long ago they’re planning on continuing and maybe even adding a second entry at the endurance races. I think they like the direction they’re heading in right now.
 
48 cars for the full season, 53 for the full Endurance Cup. The 60-car Daytona field will be released next month.

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