Italian Grand Prix Race Thread

Reck

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@Doc Austin This is what I was talking about earlier. Max essentially froze. He had 2 options. Make the move in time or make the move late to take the exit at the sausages.

Imo, it was premeditated. Max knew he had no chance so he took himself and Hamilton out knowing he had already gotten more points than Hamilton out of the weekend.
 

Doc Austin

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on that decision they should give Lewis a six spot grid penalty.
Horner is going to lose his sh*t, and probaby say something stupid. Marko will fook smash Toto's door and Jos will probably try to run someone over with his car. Lauda will come down from the heavens and tell everyone to "**** off.|"

Look, you just can't fake entertainment, and that's what all of this is turning into. As much heat as "drive to survive" gets for drama, real life is just as crazy.
 

Doc Austin

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Any communication would have been ridiculous, they probably hate each other.
They are probably in the Mercedes motorhome right now, smoking a fat one, watching the replay and laughing their asses off that people are so wound up.
 

Reck

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I’d put a neck brace overnight if I was him. He’s 100 percent going to feel that tomorrow.
 

Reck

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More measured response from Toto........


I still stand by what I said after the Belgian GP. After that farce, the championship got extremely diluted. I can’t get pass the fact you awarded points and a win for not racing at all. Massive advantage given to one driver and not the other.
 

Doc Austin

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Head injuries are a weird thing and they are not fully understood. Drivers have seemingly been ok and dropped dead a few hours later (Mark Donohue), and remember that Schumacher was ok for a few minutes after his ski accident. Now's a good time to pray for Lewis, just to be sure.
 

Doc Austin

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I still stand by what I said after the Belgian GP. After that farce, the championship got extremely diluted. I can’t get pass the fact you awarded points and a win for not racing at all. Massive advantage given to one driver and not the other.
If F1 does not fulfill it's commitment to provide a certain amount of races, they will void their TV contract, so they kind of had their hands tied and had to do something. This is why Indycar raced twice at the Indycar RR, and why IMSA raced twice at Daytona, Sebring and Atlanta. All of these sanction bodies have to watch out for these things.

However you're right they made a mess of it and took the easy way out. They could have scrubbed Spa, and inserted a race somewhere else, or maybe even gone back to Belgium, say as early as next week. Anything would have ben better than what they did.

I don't know how many races they need to have to keep the TV contract valid, but it's hard to believe one single race would constitute a breach.

Also, they would have to give up their sanction fee if they did not have a GP, so they had that to think about.

I'm not saying the FIA didn't do all the wrong thigs, but they did have their reasons.
 

donthaveanickname

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As during the British GP, I disagree with the penalty. I wouldn't put blame on any driver for this incident, Lewis closed the door for Max but Max pulled a very optimistic move.

I am curious what your thoughts on the Ocon penalty are?
Justified. Clearly moved to the right while Vettel was next to him.
 

Mispeedway15

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If F1 does not fulfill it's commitment to provide a certain amount of races, they will void their TV contract, so they kind of had their hands tied and had to do something. This is why Indycar raced twice at the Indycar RR, and why IMSA raced twice at Daytona, Sebring and Atlanta. All of these sanction bodies have to watch out for these things.

However you're right they made a mess of it and took the easy way out. They could have scrubbed Spa, and inserted a race somewhere else, or maybe even gone back to Belgium, say as early as next week. Anything would have ben better than what they did.

I don't know how many races they need to have to keep the TV contract valid, but it's hard to believe one single race would constitute a breach.

Also, they would have to give up their sanction fee if they did not have a GP, so they had that to think about.

I'm not saying the FIA didn't do all the wrong thigs, but they did have their reasons.

Exactly. It’s the reason the NBA crammed their schedule last year and finished the 2019-2020 season in the bubble. They HAVE to have a minimum of 72 games per contract
 

Tim_Richmond_Fan

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As during the British GP, I disagree with the penalty. I wouldn't put blame on any driver for this incident, Lewis closed the door for Max but Max pulled a very optimistic move.


Justified. Clearly moved to the right while Vettel was next to him.

Agreed on all accounts. The reason I was asking, is because I personally saw a correlation between the two incidents. Ocon was penalized for not leaving enough racing space, and I felt that is what caused Max to run over top of Hamilton. Ocon squeezed Seb, and Lewis squeezed Max in much the same way. All just my opinion of course and obviously the FIA and others disagree with me.
 

Doc Austin

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Let's take this away from the weekend: The sprint qualifying shook up the starting order the point the previously dominant teams couldn't respond. Ricciardo led virtually every lap and once they got going no one had anything for either McLaren. I think the dirty air certainly played it's part, because I'm pretty sure Max and Lewis had the best cars, but couldn't get anywhere. The turbulent air must be really bad if the two best teams can't get to the front.

With this in mind, what would be the harm in lining them up for the next Sprint qualifying race in reverse championship order? Think that wouldn't be fun? It's just a sprint quali, but if it sets the stage for a race like today, bring it on.

Someone mentioned no one got lapped, which is pretty remarkable, Even the lousy teams were within a minute and a half, and that's over a full Grand Prix distance. This happens every time there's a stable set of rules. Everyone gets it all figured out, and we have relative parity, Then they throw the cars away and start over with a new set of rules.
 

Reck

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Someone mentioned no one got lapped,

Impressive if true. Just goes to show the speed differential between Mercedes and Red Bull and the field.

Max or Hamilton would’ve been lapping cars.
 

acmerocket

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if these dumbasses keep driving like this,someone is going to get hurt.
 

Zerkfitting

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I haven't figured out the rules of the road in F1. I've read the lead car can take any line and a car attempting an overtake should back off or get run off the track. I think an overtaking car deserves racing room when getting along side. But chicanes are different from most corners due to the quick turns, they tend to become single lane by the end of the chicane.
 

Doc Austin

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I haven't figured out the rules of the road in F1.
Don't worry. No one else has either.

The FIA rulebook is online and the rules are in there somewhere. I haven't looked in awhile because the rules strictly forbid a lot of things the drivers do every lap. Like, you're not allowed to make a move designed to implead the other driver, so what's with all the swerving around for?

There's also no mention whatsoever about any supposed "one defensive move" rule either. Unless they added it this year, it's not there.

Even the unwritten "one move" rule has devolved into a swerve to block, and then moving back on line for the next corner, which is actually two moves. Then there are guys like Grosjean who would wander back and forth and if you got too close he would slam the door n your face at 200 mph. Magnussen would just wreck you, and it's good for F1 those guys are gone.

Like yesterday, if you have to blame anyone for yesterday, it would be Hamilton, because he ran Max up onto the curb, but they popped the overtaking driver instead. Almost any time you see someone get a penalty, it's the overtaking driver. They turn the blind eye to absolutely everything the defending driver does.

Back before LeClerc was at Ferrari (can't remember where he was before), Magnussen swerved over in front of him at the absolute last instant and they had a very nasty and potentially deadly collision, right in front of the pits. The stewards ruled Magnussen was innocent because he "moved first," even though that is not in the rules. It's not. They just made it up, on the spot, to excuse Magnussen.

No one follows the written rules and they don't follow the unwritten ones either. Sure, there are rules, but they are enforced so inconsistently that we may as well have no rules.

I haven't figured out the rules of the road in F1. I've read the lead car can take any line and a car attempting an overtake should back off or get run off the track.

And then everyone wonders why thee is so little overtaking. The guy in front can kill you, murder you in front of millions, and you'de be at fault.

I think an overtaking car deserves racing room when getting along side.

Yes, but the problem with that is it would be fair, and we can't have that.

But chicanes are different from most corners due to the quick turns, they tend to become single lane by the end of the chicane.
It can be done because people have passed in that chicane, but both drivers have to be willing to give the other guy a little room, even if it's a margin against mistakes. Hamilton left max next to nothing, which Is why I slightly blame him. Bottom line is in a situation like this, it doesn't matter who is right or wrong. You're both out of the race when you could have played fair and scored points.

However before the people get bent out of shape and call for my cancellation (or execution), Max has been driving like an absolute assclown for his entire career. He carved Hamilton up the entire first lap at Silverstone and he ran him off the road in the second chicane yesterday too. I'm not going to blame Hamilton for fighting back. He's not going to take it anymore. I'm 100% for Hamilton wrecking Max any and every time Max pulls a dirty stunt, rules or no rules because the rules mean nothing.
 

Doc Austin

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if these dumbasses keep driving like this, someone is going to get hurt.

This is typical of the FIA. When Senna was killed, they changed the cars, they changed the circuits, and they overreacted in every possible way. They even put in a chicane before Eau Rouge. They put in a tire chicane, mid weekend, at Barcelona. Then they were so conserned about safety they looked the other way when Schumacher took Hill out (on purpose) to win the title.

They did the same thing when Bianchi was killed. All of a sudden, even though drivers had their head out in the breeze for decades, now it was an emergency to rush the Halo into production even though the Aeroscreen was will always be a better option. They have had two or three years to make the transition, but once the FIA presents the appearance they are doing something, that seems to be enough. Wait until we have another Massa kind of accident and they will panic again.

And not for the first time either. They banned wings right in the middle of the Monaco weekend, and they tried to ban Porsche's movable flaps in the middle of the LeMans weekend, right between practice sessions. These is almost always some "safety" issue they use to turn the sport upside down.

But, back to what you were saying, as long as the TV numbers are good, they are going to allow chopping, blocking and swerving. But yeah, nothing will be done about this until someone is killed, and the then the FIA will make draconian rules changes that allow the drivers to do nothing but parade around, you know, because we care about safety.
 

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Instant meme



Winner.🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
 

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I see it as predominantly Verstappen's fault. There aren't 2 lines through T1 & T2. The car behind has to yield to the car ahead at the entry of T1 or you're going to have a collision.
On this day, in this incident, I agree with @shark77. But in a broader, big picture way, the reason Max and Lewis (and others) drive so over-aggressive to pass in a tight, one-lane chicane is simply that they have no other alternatives. There is waaay too much downforce, and too much tire as well.

A faster guy, in a faster car, even with DRS *still* can't get by a slower car in any sane, normal racing move, i.e., outbraking at corner entry, or getting better drive off the apex at corner exit. Braking zones are impossibly short. Mid-corner speeds are too high at many corners. And part-throttle acceleration is too brief. The answer is to slash downforce by 50% to 70% and consider narrower tires as well. Just my dos centavos.
 

Greg

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Wow. I thought this was settled, but Toto comes out of the gate slinging smack.....

Wolff claims Verstappen 'tactically' took out Hamilton


I'm sure Horner won't et this go.
He is giving Max to much credit. It's the heat of the moment and you can't choreograph a planned Kenseth type of hit in this context.
Max and Lewis simply wanted to win and were fighting for the same real estate, the same is true for Silverstone.

People can't read minds but they can over think it enough to believe their own BS.
I would bet most people are siding with either of the two drivers based on loyalties that existed before Sunday.
People are going to believe what they want to believe about the events of this fued or rivalry. Hopefully they will not kill themselves in the process and it will deliver some real racing hate.

Racing is s very corporate thing, but drivers are passionate egotistical beast. When two drivers are hell bent on dominating there should be some real hate that overcomes the harmonious corporate facade.

This has the elements that can be expected when two great ones collide, enjoy the show.
 

Kiante

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Hamilton passed Raikkonen side-by-side through the chicane for the win in 2018. Similarly tight, but they made it work. That’s probably more doable when both drivers aren’t actively trying to kill each other though.
Well, Kimi is a pretty clean driver wheel-to-wheel. Kimi was always respectful, I feel as if with Max, Lewis has to be a bit more assertive.

In result of what has happened ever since Imola IMHO.
 

Doc Austin

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In result of what has happened ever since Imola IMHO.
This year, sure, but Max has clashed with virtually everyone up and down the field. He even got into it with Kimi for crying out loud. He was clashing with midfielders when he was with Torro Rosso, and when he got into the Red Bull, he took out guys further up the grid.

Max has taken out Kimi, Sebastien, Ricciardo, Grosjean (what a stunning reversal!), Botas, and now he's landing in the gravel with Lewis.

Sorry, but the pattern is unmistakable. I really wanted to like Max. We all did because we thought finally there is someone to challenge Hamilton. We just didn't see it coming that Max would wreck anyone who challenged him.
 

Kiante

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I'm re-watching the race.

Man, I still say its a racing incident. Lewis left a cars width of room entering the corner. However, I feel he could have left a bit more space going through the chicane. Also, can we place some blame on these sausage kerbs? I mean its a bit ridiculous at times, any other time without them would not have resulted in Max's car getting jettisoned in the air.
 

Doc Austin

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At first I thought this was a video game simulation, or something, but it appears o be real. This is very cool.




 

Reck

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Journos love Marko because they can always go to him for some asinine clickbait quote.

Really who says something like poor Hamilton injured after what happened? Marko needs to be in a home.
 

Doc Austin

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Really who says something like poor Hamilton injured after what happened? Marko needs to be in a home.
I think it's more a case of poor losers mouthing off. There has been smack all year. I'm was getting sick of Formula One being motorized professional wrestling, but I don't give a damm any more. I'm going to stop taking it seriously and just enjoy the side show.
 
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