Jeff Gordon

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slick-nick

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Harvick's aggression hits nerves
Gordon questions bumping tactics

Jim Gintonio
The Arizona Republic
Nov. 8, 2004 12:00 AM

There weren't any fireworks going off after Dale Earnhardt Jr. won Sunday's Checker Auto Parts 500 . . . unless you count Kevin Harvick, who ignited a few sparks among fellow drivers.

Harvick had a couple of on-track bumping and pounding incidents with Jeff Gordon and rookie Kasey Kahne before he and Kahne traded paint again on the cool-down lap.

One driver not involved, Jimmie Johnson, said of Harvick: "The guy's got the shortest fuse known to mankind. I watched him try to knock the hell out of the No. 24 (Gordon) for two laps and then pull up next to him during a caution, and he body-slammed him."

Gordon, who finished third, said he couldn't understand Harvick's actions.

"I think he took his frustration out. . . . His car wasn't that good right then, and I think he took it out on me because I felt like I passed him pretty clean," Gordon said. "I had to slide up in front of him a little bit off of Turn 4, but he just pounded me all the way down the front straight.

"He pounded me in Turn 1 and about wrecked me there. And it was kind of on from that point. My car wasn't the same after that, and so it kind of cost both of us."

Kahne, who finished fifth, said Harvick, the fourth-place finisher, pushed him a couple times before the cool-down meeting.

"It was just hard racing," he said. "I thought were all kind of having fun. I was the only one getting bumped all over the place, and I was having fun with it, and I think everybody was.

"My car and Kevin's were both all beat up. . . . After the checkers, that's just emotions from both sides. It's just racing, not a big deal."

It may have all been in fun from Kahne's standpoint, but NASCAR will look into the situation, said spokesman Mike Zizzo. He said there was some aggressive post-race behavior that will be examined to see if it merits a penalty.

Harvick didn't mention the word "fun" when he discussed the situation.

"We were just racing hard at the end there . . . and I got into him a little bit, and I think it ticked him off," Harvick said. "He started running into us after the caution, and so I just wanted to stop and ask him what the problem was.

"It's one thing to race these things under the green, but it's another thing to wreck them under caution."

Johnson said the short track, coupled with the end of the season only two weeks away and drivers fighting for their jobs, all play a role.

Asked if everyone respected the drivers racing for the points championship, he answered: "Respect? Does that word exist in our sport any more?


Is it me, or does Jeff Gordon whine over almost everything? If Kevin's car wasn't that good, then how was he bumping him down the straights? Jeff is the best racer out there, but he whines and complains worse than a 3 year old. He's guilty of the same actions from time to time, so he really has no room to talk.
 
Slick, there you go again. Bashing my driver. Calling him a whiner. I thought all of this was covered some time back.


Actually, j/k, but I thought I would get it in 1st anyway... ;)
 
barelypure said:
Slick, there you go again. Bashing my driver. Calling him a whiner. I thought all of this was covered some time back.


Actually, j/k, but I thought I would get it in 1st anyway... ;)


LOL! Just my opinion..
Gloves are off, we're going to brawl now. :lol2:
 
Actually, there were several drivers mentioned in that story. :)

And if you notice, Gordon was specifically asked that. He didn't volunteer it either.

I have hardly noticed Jeff Gordon bump, run, beat and bang into 4 different known competitors for over 100 laps. He knows how much it costs. :p

Actually, unless a driver volunteers the info, any driver who is asked and gives an opinion isn't a whiner. What are they gonna do? Tell the reporter to shove it? Yeah, then get fined by NASCAR.....

The whiners are ones like Eury Sr. on Sunday whining in FOUR interviews about lapped cars that Jr. very well ran over like a playground bully. :)
 
jggirl2448 said:
The whiners are ones like Eury Sr. on Sunday whining in FOUR interviews about lapped cars that Jr. very well ran over like a playground bully. :)

LOL, you have a point. We're going to get along just fine!
 
the gloves come off

supered.JPG


And, jggirl, wow, challenging his holiness' rights 1st off. Many here think the other 42 drivers should just park their car for Lil'E to race.

I think I'm going to like your posts...
 
barelypure said:
supered.JPG


And, jggirl, wow, challenging his holiness' rights 1st off. Many here think the other 42 drivers should just park their car for Lil'E to race.

I think I'm going to like your posts...

LOL, same with me.
 
I watched the interviews and it didn't appear any of the drivers were whining. Jeff and Ryan were laughing will giving ansewrs to the questions. Sure didn't look like whining to me.
 
barelypure said:
supered.JPG


And, jggirl, wow, challenging his holiness' rights 1st off. Many here think the other 42 drivers should just park their car for Lil'E to race.

I think I'm going to like your posts...



Hmmmm, she ain't met DE_Wrangler yet. LOL
 
A lot of those cars were sliding all over the track. At one point Harvick couldn't get his car to turn that is why he went a lap down. Kahne admitted his car was beat up. That was before him and Harvick got together. So there was a lot of bumping going on. :beerbang:
 
Gollum said:
A lot of those cars were sliding all over the track. At one point Harvick couldn't get his car to turn that is why he went a lap down. Kahne admitted his car was beat up. That was before him and Harvick got together. So there was a lot of bumping going on. :beerbang:

Sliding yes, blatently running over Mike Wallace, Johnny Sauter and Mears (and a few others) isn't sliding around. Mears, I could justify the bump n run, okay. Sauter, he couldn't keep his car anywhere on the track, so okay, whatever. Mike Wallace (and anyone who has watched him knows this) is a classy, quiet driver who basically stays out of the way and drives his car with no fuss. Jr follows him for under 2 laps. Doesn't try to pass. When Mike doesn't get out of his way, he blatently ran into the back of his car. Mike was racing for position and couldn't just pull over and let him go because the guys behind Jr. he was racing for position and that would have opened the door for the guys behind Jr.

THEN we have to hear Eury Sr. complain in 4 separate interviews about how the lap cars wouldn't pull over for him. Last time I checked, this was racing. While it is courteous as lapped cars (usually more than just one lap down) to pull over, nowhere is it written in racing that you have to let people by. In fact, if my driver pulled over to let a car (assuming he was just one lap down) go by and in the process got passed by the guys he is racing for position, he would get a good chewing out. Wallace was racing just as hard at that point with other drivers. Not to mention some of the lap cars he complained about were racing pretty hard for the lucky dog spot.
 
Eagle1 said:
Hmmmm, she ain't met DE_Wrangler yet. LOL


How did I get involved in this? :) And how did Jr wind up being the topic? Last I heard he spells his name entirly different than Jeff!! :)
 
Is it me, or does Jeff Gordon whine over almost everything? If Kevin's car wasn't that good, then how was he bumping him down the straights? Jeff is the best racer out there, but he whines and complains worse than a 3 year old. He's guilty of the same actions from time to time, so he really has no room to talk.[/QUOTE]


One guy is racing for his 5th championship the other will probably never get there, Robby G and Harvick are in the same boat as far as driver ignorance goes. Harvick knows that Jeff can not afford to retaliate so he takes his cheap shots even knowing the race is far from over, a real classy guy.
 
Robby G and Harvick are in the same boat as far as driver ignorance goes.



How did Robby get into this?
 
esorlxaw said:
Robby G and Harvick are in the same boat as far as driver ignorance goes.



How did Robby get into this?


The same way Jr makes every topic. :confused:
 
[/QUOTE]Robby G and Harvick are in the same boat as far as driver ignorance goes.[/QUOTE]

And you have room to talk about ignorance?
 
[QUOTE=bowtie]The same way Jr makes every topic. :confused:[/QUOTE]


Robby has rubbed about everyone out there the wrong way.....Childress is letting him go for more than not winning races.

I am about as ignorant as any other race fan out there so who better to talk?
 
[QUOTE=02Pace][QUOTE=bowtie]The same way Jr makes every topic. :confused:[/QUOTE]

Robby has rubbed about everyone out there the wrong way.....Childress is letting him go for more than not winning races.

I am about as ignorant as any other race fan out there so who better to talk?[/QUOTE]


Don't get me started on Jr., I haven't seen anyone yet put a bumper on him for fear of a fan riot........when and if he wins the cup they will start calling it the Earnhardt Racing League.
 
I will never understand why people resent Jr. so much. He's a good racer and NOT the only one with tons of fans.

I haven't seen Jr. race any DIRTIER than anyone else. Racers sometimes get aggressive, it's happened to everyone.
 
Exodeath said:
I will never understand why people resent Jr. so much. He's a good racer and NOT the only one with tons of fans.

I haven't seen Jr. race any DIRTIER than anyone else. Racers sometimes get aggressive, it's happened to everyone.

I can tell you why people resent him. These are not personally opinions, but what I have been told...

He is the son of a driver named the "Intimidator" and people are sick of hearing how much like his dad he is. He isn't. Jrs fanbase and sales more than increased by 6 fold within 6 months when Earnhardt died (this came after the win from Harvick and it was time to move on). This would lead to imply that Jr. did nothing to earn his fans, but 'inherited' them. Hey, most everyone hates the rich kid on the block, especially if his dad is the Bill Gates of NASCAR. Jrs. fanbase defend him to the death whether Jr. was morally wrong, technically wrong or just plain did something stupid (remember, you asked about Jr. not other drivers cause I know he isn't the only one). Jrs. first decent year was this year, last year he outsold more than any other driver in souveniers. Nothing wrong with defending your driver, but when people are getting beat up and insulted because they thought Jr. might have done something wrong, that's taking it too far.

Jr. is the first known 'party' boy of NASCAR. Some more traditional fans don't like that. He admits he drinks a lot (but doesn't drink and drive), revealed to playboy his bedroom side, plays loud rap music, etc..

A lot of the turn off is how some of his fans react. I am not saying all Jr. fans act this way, but as evident from the 25pt penalty for him it shows. The fans now claim it isn't cause it is just Jr. but the whole idea is stupid. These fans didn't say a thing when two other drivers were penalized, it now hits home. Some of his fans, whenever Jr. is critiqued in any way shape or form, whether it be his hair cut, what he did in a race, or what he said get verbally abusive towards other people. Some fans even almost castrate other Jr. fans and I have heard them called traitors and sell outs when they agreed with the cussing penalty (because as we all know, logically, NASCAR would have had a beating down of doors on their hands with the other peer drivers and especially the drivers who have been penalized, along with thier sponsors, owners, etc.).

Unfortunaly, these obnoxious fans ruin it for the good fans of Jr. and that turns a lot of people off to a driver.

That's my two cents. Again, I don't say this all goes for me, it's just what I have heard and read.

P.S. As far as racing dirty, he does. Some others do, but not the majority of drivers. Jr. gets away with ALOT and that doesn't bode well with other drivers.
 
jggirl, that's great, now can you tell us all why Jeffy is so hated. I know, but it's just like what you said about Jr. I like both of them, but I didn't like the senior Earnhardt. But I can tell you that some people detest Jr. simply because of his name. These people still today believe that there is a conspiracy in NASCAR involving both the Earnhardt name and the Chevy emblem. A Ford driver can win, win the championship, but that still doesn't quiet these rabid anti Earnhardt fans.

I've been a fan of racing for a very long time and one thing is for certain, popular and champion drivers will have their fan base, but they will also have a huge "anti" fan base. Few Cup drivers that win are liked by most people. Yeah, there've been a few, but most of them never won the title. It's just part of the sport.
 
Pretty good Buck!! :beerbang: What I've been trying to say for years. Only difference is I am a big Sr fan. :)

And JGG.........I'm one of those fans Jr inherited. Not just because his name was the same, but because I really had no other driver to root for and any racing is more fun to watch when you have someone to root for..........I chose Jr. And, guess what.........I liked him once he got over the stumbles that a young driver usually gets!! :) I get a kick out of most of the garbage the anti crowd toss out........I get the same kick when they do it to Jeff too. But the ones I really chuckle about are the ones that always find a way to work in stuff that happened 14 years ago!! :XXROFL:

And I'm still puzzled why we are talking about Jr when the thread is supposed to be about Jeff!! :rolleyes:
 
jggirl2448 said:
P.S. As far as racing dirty, he does. Some others do, but not the majority of drivers. Jr. gets away with ALOT and that doesn't bode well with other drivers.


I have to disagree with you there, I think if you look at his car after the race Sunday there was not a scratch on it.
 
Bow, you are bursting a bubble............a very big and valuable bubble!! The Intimidator didn't bump others out of the way? That's sacrilege!! And for Jr to carry on with the fable? Get a hold of yourself, my friend!! :D

My question is (and remains)............how the heck did Dale Sr "bump" all those people unless he was going faster than they were? :confused: :) :) :) :)

Carry on Bow.........I've fought this battle for years and I'm getting tired of the same old stories put up by the same old crowd!! :)
 
Oh I know, Thats why I usually don't get involved. It just makes me laugh. 7 trips to victory lane this year and he still doesn't have a legitimate win. Go figure. :rolleyes:
 
bowtie said:
Oh I know, Thats why I usually don't get involved. It just makes me laugh. 7 trips to victory lane this year and he still doesn't have a legitimate win. Go figure. :rolleyes:

Who said that?
 
jggirl, that's great, now can you tell us all why Jeffy is so hated. I know, but it's just like what you said about Jr. I like both of them, but I didn't like the senior Earnhardt. But I can tell you that some people detest Jr. simply because of his name. These people still today believe that there is a conspiracy in NASCAR involving both the Earnhardt name and the Chevy emblem. A Ford driver can win, win the championship, but that still doesn't quiet these rabid anti Earnhardt fans.

Jeff is hated because he displaced the top two drivers in NASCAR at the time. Wallace and Earnhardt. Jeff didn't get inherited fans from his daddy, though. Jeff certainly isn't a party boy. I agree with people detesting championship drivers, but there is one problem. Jr. isn't so he isn't detested for that. But also here is the thing. Anyone who is anti-Jr. never can get a word in about anything with him. Ever! This is rampant through ANY message board with more than 100 members with open membership. Another board has a thread 18 pages long (it would be about 13 more if the insults weren't there) solely on Jr. One person says one thing that Jr.'s team should have been fined, boom! 3 pages of insults. These same people are anti-Gordon so whenever Jeff does anything good, it's picked apart to hell and turned around onto him and Jr. is god.

I have to disagree with you there, I think if you look at his car after the race Sunday there was not a scratch on it.

Then you didn't check the nose. Jr. ran over 3 people in TV full view on him. Mears, Sauter and M. Wallace. I could easily pass off Mears to a bump n run. That's fine, he tried. But before that when Jr. was back in the pack, while lap down cars are fighting for the lucky dog. Jr. follows M. Wallace around for about 2 laps and when Wallace did not promptly move out of the way, he punted him. If Jr. had such a good car, why did he not just try to make the pass underneath him in a corner. It would have been way easy as Wallace's car wasn't sticking to the bottom but Jr. and Eury Sr. felt these cars should just pull over for them. Wallace were to move out of the way, he loses positions to the guys behind him. But as it goes, Wallace was promplty run into. While the cameras were on other cars, you could see clearly a few other bumps he did to people. THAT'S what I don't agree with. A bump n run is fine. Done once, maybe for the win or the lead (or at least for top three as the case is with Mears). When you are running over people in the pack with more than 50 laps to go, it's not.

Then we have to hear in four separate interviews (and I am sure much more in written media), Eury Sr. complain about these lapped cars and how they should just pull over if the car behind them is faster. Well, they were racing each other for position and last time I checked, you don't just pull over to let them all by.

Anyways, I digress.

The biggest problem is a lot of Jr.'s fans are party people. Like it or not, they are. When you get a bunch of party people rooting for someone, next to diehard race fans, who followed the sport for 10 years or more and can hold a real conversation about NASCAR, egos get in the way.

Oh I know, Thats why I usually don't get involved. It just makes me laugh. 7 trips to victory lane this year and he still doesn't have a legitimate win. Go figure.

I have said that this year was his first decent year. 7 wins is nothing to sneeze at and he has been driving the wheels off the cars. But that kinda creates the problem too. Last year wasn't stellar and as I said, he outsold any other driver. Now this year, those same rambunctious heads have swelled and it has gotten worse. If we weren't allowed to critique him last year for not really doing much in Cup last year, imagine how hard it is now to say one measly little thing and not be completely destroyed for it. Like I said, alot of it is about those Jr. fans ruining it for others. Some of these young kids with no history in NASCAR are going to the tracks, hooting and hollering during the race, all the while personally insulting Gordon fans. I am sure it's happened with Gordon fans too, but not at this level. This year, at Atlanta, I was there in east turn coming out of turn 3. When Busch went out, yeah, we all stood together and cheered. When Gordon went to the garage, the barrage of obscenities towards Gordon and his fans, and people wearing his gear was unbelieveable. I know, I was in a Gordon shirt and hat. When Jr. hit the wall in turn 3, of course people cheered, but some Jr. fans threw a few things and started cursing at all the people cheering and that isn't right.

An example: Talladega. Not in my personal history have I ever seen fans act in such a mass like that. That was disgusting and stupid. Yes, there are a few people that throw things here and there. But when the flag man is being targeted, little girls are getting smacked in the head with beer cans, flying beer cans are hitting the cars, that says something to those non-Jr. fans and makes it worse. Remember, what we seen on the track was just the guys with good arms. We can't forget all those other fans who threw crap and it landed back in the stands. On other people.

I know there are some good Jr. fans out there. In every group of people, there are some good. I could sit down, talk respectfully and have a good time with a Jr. fan. But sadly, the majority usually speaks for people who are as open-minded as I am.
 
Jr. is the first known 'party' boy of NASCAR. Some more traditional fans don't like that. He admits he drinks a lot (but doesn't drink and drive), revealed to playboy his bedroom side, plays loud rap music, etc..


Ever heard of Tim Richmond ??
 
de7xwcc said:
Jr. is the first known 'party' boy of NASCAR. Some more traditional fans don't like that. He admits he drinks a lot (but doesn't drink and drive), revealed to playboy his bedroom side, plays loud rap music, etc..


Ever heard of Tim Richmond ??

I know he died in the late 80's... was somewhere, although I can't remember where or who did the vote, was in the 50 greatest drivers. Drove for Hendrick in the 80's with a coffee sponsor, can't remember the name. I did some digging about Hendrick about 5 years after I started liking Gordon and more or less because an owner fan rather than a specific driver fan.

I also know he was a womanizing drinker. My dad (fav driver is R. Wallace)also told me after his death, Wallaces crew chief wore some kinda tux Richmond had prepared for himself. He died from AIDS after only two years or so in NASCAR. I know that there was a conspiracy theory about drugs. Don't remember how or what happened though. I know he was one of the few drivers to really battle NASCAR in court over it.

There are several small differences though that must be compared. From what I understand, this guy was rumored to be gay (although I am not saying I stand by it), rumors persisted when the world was dumb to AIDS and it was slapped on homosexuals as 'their' disease. This guy wasn't your average around the block guy either. I heard that he wore the most divine of clothing, and I hardly doubt that majority of NASCAR fans identified with him. Jrs career is already better and has outlasted that of Richmonds in the Cup series. Hence more fans. Jr. is the 'down-to-earth guy next door. He is somewhat of a rough around the edges man's man. Guys identify with it, and more NASCAR girls identify and are attracted to that kind of man rather than Richmond.

And some fans of NASCAR are sponsor loyal. How man fans in the stands drink coffee at races, how many beer? I don't ever remember hearing any of his fans throwing cups of coffee at a race where he didn't win. Richmond, as far as I have heard, didn't get a ride from his (arguably) most successful and popular daddys business either. Richmond also didn't get the fan benefit of who his daddy was either.

This is just what I remember, but the opinion on why Jr is so much more liked and copied is true.
 
I think we can safely assume that JGG is not overly fond of Jr!! :D
 
jggirl2448 said:
But also here is the thing. Anyone who is anti-Jr. never can get a word in about anything with him. Ever!



Please..... :rolleyes:

Look at 2/3 of your post since you been here. Doesn't look like you have had any trouble complaining about him. A few even jumped on your bandwagon and held on with both hands....but then again, we are used to their whining and complaining. I guess it is nice to have a new one to start.
 
jggirl2448 said:
And some fans of NASCAR are sponsor loyal. How man fans in the stands drink coffee at races, how many beer? I don't ever remember hearing any of his fans throwing cups of coffee at a race where he didn't win.

Who were the sponsors of the seat cushions that were thrown in Daytona a few years ago. Come to think of it, I think Gordon won that race too. Could it possibly be that maybe its fans who don't like Gordon throwing the stuff and not just Jr fans? No, of course not.......


jggirl2448 said:
Richmond, as far as I have heard, didn't get a ride from his (arguably) most successful and popular daddys business either.
Richmond also didn't get the fan benefit of who his daddy was either.

So, is it Jr's fault he was born an Earnhardt? What would you say If Davey Allison was still around? All those wild, beer-bellied, Bud drinking drunks from Alabama who maliciously attacked Gordon would probably have just about the same amount of passion for him as they do Jr.
 
Before you all jump on me like water in the dessert. It was specifically asked of me and I answered.

As far as my posts since I have been here, as I said, I have answered to what was asked except the playground bully part, that was mine. Can I help it, the time that I started on these forums followed that race? Nope. Why don't you ask me opinions on other races? I don't usually give opinions about races that happened 4 months ago. I do the here and now. But I will if you like.

I never said it was Jr.'s fault who his daddy is. I, again, have only answered what was asked of me when people want to know why Jr. is so hated/loved. Why don't you jump down the asker's throats for wanting an opinion. Don't jump down mine because I answered to the best of my knowledge (especially when the question was directed at me). I think Jr. can drive, I never said he couldn't. I think Jr. will soon have a championship (although I don't think this year).

But if you want to know why some people despise him, I could only infer that maybe a few of you are the fans I am talking about. If you don't want an honest answer to a question, don't ask it.

If you can't handle the fact that Jr. got some of his fan base from his father rather than his driving capabilites (as some honest Jr. fans have admitted), or that his ride DID come from his father's business, or the fact that he didn't do (overall) well until this year, then don't ask. Don't jump down someone's throats becase they presented them to you upon request, in a pretty package.

As far as asking about Davey Allison. Moot point fergy. We don't know and never will and there is no since in arguing about it. That's like arguing if Sr. were still alive, he could have won the championship this year.

And if you want to argue with the post and comments I stated with the Tim Richmond, then go ahead. If you don't think Jr. is the guy next door, man's man type that has more fans than Richmond... that's your perogative.
 
I have been a JR. fan since his very early busch series days. first off because I am a Dale SR. fan, and second JR's dominance of the busch series in 98 &99 proved he was a fairly good driver. As of 2000 I had 2 favorites on the track in the cup series, but after FEB. 2001 I only had 1 and it is JR. As far as last year goes it seems to me he had a decent year.
Just my 2 cents.
:beerbang: :beerbang: :beerbang:
Oh yea, since this is a Jeff Gordon thread I will say I don't hate him. He's a good driver.
 
To play the "I never said..." game which is getting so popular...

I never said I couldn't handle the fact Jr was Dale's kid. And I know some people follow him because they followed his dad. If you look back in Jr's past, when he first started racing, he and Kerry built their cars from the ground up. Dale only made sure the safety equipment was good to go. Everything else, Jr. and Kerry did. Both did pretty good for what they had to work with.


And I haven't jumped on you...just responding to your post with some questions.
 
Well JGG, I can't argue much with what you just posted.......you were asked the questions and you answered them. I, for one, believe you now..........you are opinionated as you stated in your first thread!!! :D

I remember a post recently by you about someone (or a group of someones) needing to get their panties unwadded.......hmmmmmmm? Remember, you made a rather emphatic statement about Jr being the first party boy in NASCAR history.........Fergy pointed out another "party boy" of the 80's. Now you got those britches all bunched up!! :) Relax.......have fun with us!! :beerbang:

And I still want to know why we are talking about Jr almost exclusively on a thread about Jeff Gordon!!
 
DE_Wrangler_2 said:
And I still want to know why we are talking about Jr almost exclusively on a thread about Jeff Gordon!!
Dare I say that maybe because Jr is more popular than Mr Gordon? :p
 
I am yet to understand why every race I have been to they boo my boy Jeff..
WHY? :confused:
 
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