Just a statistic I've noticed...

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by jaqua19, Aug 11, 2019.

  1. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    Since 2015.. let's look at the most consistent drivers and teams.. Harvick, Truex, Busch, Logano.

    Harvick has had TWO seasons with over 26 top 10s.

    2015: 3/23/28
    2018: 8/23/29

    Kyle Busch with one

    2018: 8/22/28 (same season as Harvick)

    Logano with one

    2015: 6/22/28
    (Two other 26 top 10 seasons)

    Truex's best is 26.

    2015 is the season people started complaining about the major downforce issues.

    Since 2015, there have been 4 drivers/seasons with over 26 top 10s. 7 seasons of atleast 26 top 10s.

    Before 2015, two drivers have had 26+ top 10 seasons in over a DECADE. Carl Edwards and Jeff Gordon with 27 and 30 respectively. Tell me again this package doesn't give the "best" teams more of an advantage relative to competition prior to the early gen 6, COT, and gen 4 car.

    Not a coincidence. I contest that the current package awards the best teams more than previous packages did..and the driver doesn't make AS much a difference.

    A more competitive car and more frequent driver error due to more challenging cars resulted in less top 10 finishes prior to 2015, and less advantages. COT and gen 4 showcased driver talent moreso then than now in my opinion. Dont think these numbers are coincidences, and that current season long stats are inflated relative to years past. Just like the NBA. And every other sport.



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  2. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    The best teams are always going to be the best teams, regardless of package
     
  3. Larsonfan1995

    Larsonfan1995 Team Owner

    There are less competitive teams and teams in general now. I hate the package too, but it's not the biggest contributor to that in my opinion.
     
    Joker and jaqua19 like this.
  4. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    Well yes. Not my point.

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  5. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I guess one can make a point of anything. I can say that the teams are more competitive than ever (like 9 different winners so far this year) and make a point for that. What does it matter anyway? It is what it is.
     
    Zerkfitting likes this.
  6. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    It doesn't matter. It's a talking point. An observation. It's a statistic I've noticed that seems to support the idea that today's top teams have more of an advantage. Not everything has to have a motive my dude.. I just wanted to share this and see what people thought of these numbers
     
  7. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    Makes a lot of sense
     
  8. SlicedBread22

    SlicedBread22 #TeamJL

    There are also a bunch of other drivers on those same teams without those stats.. which to me shows that it is the drivers. The best drivers get the best finishes.. that shouldnt be a surprise. If it were just because of the big teams we would probably have seen Brad.. Denny.. Kurt.. Bowyer.. etc put up similar numbers.
     
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  9. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    9 different different winners so far this year was a statistic I quoted. It used to be two or three back in the day, and one when the Mopars set out a season. 6 teams won at least one race in the trucks this year SO FAR, 9 in cup. Sorry dude I don't see it. Look to F-1
     
  10. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    got to have both for sure.
     
  11. 10-4

    10-4 Car Chief

    I don't have any stats to prove a point but I thought 2018 was some of the best racing I had seen in a long time. I'm not a fan of this new package either. The racing is ok but I liked it better when a driver could pull away from the field. I know that can make for some boring races though.
     
    Switchback likes this.
  12. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    Fair point. But what do you make of the large increase in "most top 10s"? Coincidence?
     
  13. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    2018 wasn't bad or the preceding years IMO. It's more of the direction Nascar was going. Too F-1 ie for me and it was going to get worse IMO. All about the car and less about the driving. The in car's today show the driver working their asses off compared to looking like they were on a Sunday drive. Glad they got back to rubbing fenders and closer racing and are doing more so next year. Of course when the new car comes out it can all change.
     
  14. Greg

    Greg 2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader

    There are only about 36 to 37 entries now. So a top 9 now is the new top 10.
    All tape measures, rulers, gauges etc must be recalibrated including racing reference, driver averages and so forth.
     
  15. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    There's liars, there's damn liars, and there's statistics. Ya lost me right at the point quoted above, with your talk of the 2015-to-present Cup racing package. That is absurd on its face. The 2019 racing package has nothing to do with what came before. The 2018 (and prior) rules were 180 degrees opposite of the 'entertainment package' introduced last February. I'm surprised you don't grasp the significance of that.
     
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  16. 10-4

    10-4 Car Chief

    How so? I mean the F-1 comment. I don't know anything about F-1 other than it's much more expensive than Nascar and once in a while Dave Moody or Larry McReynolds or someone on XM will mention some of the weird rules F-1 has. Like apparently race cars rubbing is against the rules or something weird like that. How was nascar becoming F-1? I'm not asking to be a smart aleck or start an argument I'm just curious.
     
    Ventisca likes this.
  17. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    You can count on two hands the number of passes for the lead the whole season in F-1 pretty much. Mostly a single file parade. Nascar adding stages instead of lets say very convenient cautions, it really pulled back the covers on how the racing was mostly following the leader with no way to pass the car out front.
     
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  18. 10-4

    10-4 Car Chief

    Yeah there were tracks like that in 2018 and before. The 1.5 mile ones for the most part. But not always. Strange thing is you couldn't always count on passing to happen at a track like Bristol or even Martinsville. I have seen some Martinsville races that were kind of boring. Maybe that was because one driver was so dominant amd I was watching on tv where they never show much of the action outside of the top 5 or 10. Every race can't always be a barn burner. Even with this new package some of them are still boring. It's just racing and sometimes that's how it goes.

    They dont have to try and fix every little thing. That's why I hate this new package. I won't say it hasn't added some excitement at some tracks but I'll say it again I can count on 1 hand how many boring races I saw last year. Nothing needed to be changed. They change everything just be cause they perceive they need to. Trying to be all things to all people. I'd like to see whatever package stay for at least 5 years. Of course they will need minor rules tweaks from time to time on stuff like restarts due to drivers trying to exploit a grey area but the low down force versus a lot of down force, why???
     
    LewTheShoe likes this.
  19. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    Probably a hell of a lot cheaper to try to find less of an abundance of downforce instead or trying to find some. It's pretty funny that some drivers were adamant about less downforce and the teams spent millions to find as much as possible. They have plenty now. ;)
     
    10-4 likes this.
  20. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    I thought the new car was 2021?

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  21. DaBiff1618

    DaBiff1618 Team Owner

    Those are some interesting points. I think the aero and stuff has played a role in some of the dominance, but regardless of package Busch, Truex, Logano, Harvick, Brad would be dominating. They along with Hamlin are the current best drivers in the sport. Guys like Chase, Larson, and Erik can get to that level but haven’t done it yet. Chase is closest to breaking through
     
    StandOnIt likes this.
  22. Larsonfan1995

    Larsonfan1995 Team Owner

    I feel like Chase might be there already. He's outrunning his teammates by far and has 2 multiple win seasons in a row. Larson was there in '17 and I thought that was it but he took a step back. Jones is consistent but not flashy and is right on the edge of contending.
     
    DaBiff1618 likes this.
  23. DaBiff1618

    DaBiff1618 Team Owner



    I agree chase is ahead of the other two, I just think he needs to make it to homestead and compete for a championship before we can put him up there with the others. Larson has the ability to win anytime anyplace but is streaky and and has trouble closing out races, while Erik on the other hand doesn’t come as close to winning but has the consistency down. Maybe they can learn from one another :p
     
    Larsonfan1995 likes this.
  24. Larsonfan1995

    Larsonfan1995 Team Owner

    He was a Denny Hamlin away from doing just that in '17 lol
     
    Johali likes this.
  25. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    I like
    Ya know, I really don't care if they come out with a new car or not, I like the new packages pretty good. But I also know from a long history not to fall in love with them, because Nascar is constantly is evolving. Looks like an electro something or other part is coming soon along with paddle shifters and many other changes. Whatever it is, they will race the hell out of them, haters will hate, and watchers will watch.
     
    SlicedBread22 likes this.
  26. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    I agree.

    But I think with an older package, they wouldn't be the 7 best cars EVERY week. You'd have random top 15 drivers post top 5s, see an Erik Jones dominate a race or two, Clint bowyer dominate a race or two.

    Kasey Kahne was never a top 10 driver, and his cars were rarely a top 10 car all season long. Yet you saw him dominate some races and win some. I think of 2012 at Dover... Almendinger dominated and had the best car before having an issue. Best teams were still the best teams, and will be the title contenders. But on a race to race basis, it seemed there were more surprise runs. It's just different now. It is what it is..but I'm just trying to the pinpoint a reason for such a shift in season long statistics such as laps lead and top 10s. Cause there is one..which was the point of this thread. To provoke some critical thinking

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  27. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    How many races have been run with the “new package”?

    If you’re thinking critically, you’ll want to factor that into one or two of your conclusions.
     
  28. SlicedBread22

    SlicedBread22 #TeamJL

    So it's bad that the best drivers win more now? That doesnt seem right to me at all.. tell the others guys to get better lol it shouldnt be all the car or anyone could do it. The best drivers get the best finishes.. makes sense to me.

    :idunno:
     
    aunty dive likes this.
  29. ReturnTrip

    ReturnTrip Team Owner

    Top 10 used to be a respectable finish and necessary to winning titles. In these days of stage racing and playoffs it's basically a bad day. The back half of the field resembles an ARCA race, starting from the rear for someone like Truex is barely a penalty. Kyle Busch had two spins and a speeding penalty at Watkins Glen and finished 11th with a moderately damaged car. It's also interesting/sad that most of the guys on your list didn't win a title.
     
  30. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    I'm not saying it's good or bad lol

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  31. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    They all have. Truex, Joey, Kyle, and Harvick are all champions

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  32. ReturnTrip

    ReturnTrip Team Owner

    I meant in the specific 26+ top 10 seasons. Of course they've won titles.

    Logano in '15 and '16, Harvick in '18,'16,'15,'10. Kyle in '18. Gordon '07, Edwards in '08 and '11.
     

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