Just when you thought...

E

EatMorePossum

Guest
...the boys in the suits had thoroughly sanitized the sport, eradicating all evidence that there ever was a Southern tie to NASCAR, we get this. I made certain phrases bold type for emphasis.

From catchfence.com



Minority fans protest: Eighteen protestors, many high school aged, marched outside Lowe's Motor Speedway before Saturday night's race for the National Association for Minority Race Fans. The group first appeared at a track two weeks ago at Talladega. The group was not at Kansas Speedway last weekend. Jirard Brown, director of the NAMRF, and Shawn Griffith, who is filming a documentary that depicts racism and other ills among NASCAR fans, also were at the track Saturday. Brown said the group's goals are to make race events safe for minority fans, more inviting to minority fans by reducing the number of Confederate Flags flying above campers and to see results from NASCAR's diversity program. Griffith said that he and Brown next will go to Washington, D.C., on Monday for the National Minorities Supplier Development Council Conference. Neither Brown nor Griffith would comment on if they would organize a protest at Martinsville Speedway, where the series heads for next weekend's Subway 500.





Now, we have folks from all over the country here, so let's just find out. Has anyone ever felt PERSONALLY threatened at a race by the presence of a Confederate flag? I did not ask if you liked or disliked this flag; I asked if you personally had ever had occasion to feel like you or your family were in harm's way.

As NASCAR continues its own personal ethnic cleansing, I hope y'all get to see a lot more of stuff like this at your race tracks. I would hope everyone would feel safe and free from intimidation. Of course, to accomplish that lofty goal, you might want to bring your own food so no one can pass along germs. Also, be careful where you stop along the interstate (freeway for our metropolitan readers) because you just never can tell where hate mongers might be eating lunch. They like them a Big Mac every now and agaion too ya know.


Ludicrous. What a waste of energy. They want something to be afraid of? Send 'em over to th' house. I give 'em something to be afraid of. It's called the damn truth. Lord knows the schools don't teach it.
 
Some of this stuff would gag a maggott. These 'protests', I mean.

A truly classic, textbook example of elitist hypocrites---who have probably told more rascist jokes at the Private Country Club than a truckload of West Virginia coal-miners ever have----manipulating the impressionable who very likely dont give a rat's azz one way or the other about Stock car racing.

A lot could be said on this issue by anyone with the ability to reason.

Let's just hope Joe Gibbs gets his nobility award from the SCLC soon.

Pathetic. Another untapped source of income to be exploited.Bleed the 'rednecks' dry for 50 years....now let's go after the 'minorities'. And whats better yet---let's let the 'minorities' think THEY came up with the idea. Yeah, right. The minority kid holds out his hand to be led by the greedy clowns--- and what a damned shame. Meanwhile, the common fan, of any creed, suffer, and a little more erasing of the Southern white man's contribution to the sport continue's.

Meanwhile the rich get richer, the 'necks' are locked away icon-less in their 'trailer parks', and crack still rules the ghetto...Damn.

Thats my take and opinion of it anyhow. The Dega stuff was a non-event(although covered in the local news like the start of WWIII, naturally). These protesters are having their chains yanked. Being led, plain and simple.
 
I tend to simply ignore "protestors". If they are in my direct path, I will choose to walk around them. If that doesn't work, I will go through them. and they had best not lay a finger on my person!!!!! I have never had any problem with them. Protest away, it's keeping them from committing some other kinds of crimes, isn't it????
 
I've never felt threatened in any way shape or form at any race I've ever been to! Though I am white, I feel this is all crazy! I'm all for the diversity program and things of that nature, but I don't feel that there is any prejudice among race fans! I have to say that I've been many fans over the years and many of them are of different race. I have no issue with them, nor do they have any with me. We have our fun jabbing at each other about our favorite drivers, but there is no ill will toward anyone!

I'm sure this documentary will come out and depict race events as this horrible place for minority race fans to be, WITHOUT seeing that a MAJORITY of the fans get along just fine!

This is just crazy!!
 
"I'm sure this documentary will come out and depict race events as this horrible place for minority race fans to be, WITHOUT seeing that a MAJORITY of the fans get along just fine!"

Excactly how I feel. This crap is pure propaganda.
 
Originally posted by 97forever@Oct 18 2004, 01:06 PM
"I'm sure this documentary will come out and depict race events as this horrible place for minority race fans to be, WITHOUT seeing that a MAJORITY of the fans get along just fine!"

Excactly how I feel. This crap is pure propaganda.
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Amen, brother 97!!!!
 
As a woman who traveled alone to a large number of races over the years, I can say that I've always felt safer at the track than I did on the streets of Houston.

As for minorities, I've never, ever seen anyone hasseled or threatened because of their color --- even in the infield at Talladega!
 
Didn't they put out an offer to trade in your Rebel Flag in exchange for the flag of your favorite driver? I think that is what I heard, if they would have come to our campsite they would have seen that we had all the flags of our fovorite drivers so that wasn't gonna work.
I really don't see any true southener giving up his Rebel Flag anyway.
 
Well, I suppose being hispanic I fall into the category of "minority" (at least for now :p ).

I've been to several races, including Talladega. Have I ever encountered any problems with racism? No. Am I in th minority, as far as the color of my skin, at the races I attend? Definately.

Is this because racing doesn't appeal to those of other nationalities other than the average white guy? Nope. Take a look at the makeup of CART, IRL and F1 racing fans and you have a huge mix of nationalities and races. The key here, is that the drivers in those series represent a huge cross-section of people. Asian, Spanish, German....etc...

Can things be done to improve this with NASCAR? Sure. But not with the nitwits behind NAMRF. I went to their webstie to have a look at what all the ruckus was about and watched snippets of the "documentary". While some might be genuine footage (consisting of apparently mostly drunk people) the rest was so obviously staged as to be almost sad.

There isn't much NASCAR can do to about this until some minority drivers make to the big show. Loyalty to one's nationality plays a huge role in the open-wheel fanbase. How many different countries flags do you see being waved around in the stands at those events? If hispanic/black/asian etc..fans had a driver they could identify with in NASCAR, then they will start to take interest. As it stands now, other than Bill Lester in the truck series there is no one for minority fans to identify with.

It would be nice to live in a world where all of this simply was not an issue. But for some the sins of the past aren't easy to forgive. I personally could care less if someone wants to fly the confederate flag, nor do I care about their motive in doing so. There will be bad apples in every bunch (no matter their race) and they will always the ones, as sad as it is, that the masses will base their opinion on.

Is there rampant racism in the crowds at NASCAR races? No, I don't think so. Is it naive to think that no one in a crowd of 100,000+ does not harbor ill feelings towards someone else because of the color of their skin? Yes.

As for me, I plan to keep on going to every race I can afford and have a good time meeting people from all over th country and watching some really good racing.
 
Very well said.

I would add, however, that my experiences at NASCAR races over the last 25 years dictates that a person of color is far safer at a NASCAR race (insode or outside the facility) than a Caucasian at SOME NBA venues. But that's just an educated opinion.
 
definatley very well said team hendrick

Even though I have only been to a few races, at those races hundreds of people flew the confederate flag. I saw dozens of minorites there, one of my friends that helped buy me a ticket for the race this year is black. None of them had a porblem with the environment, that I saw or herd.

EMP I have been to 3 NBA games with friends, most of the crowd was white I would say around 60%. I had no problems with anyone.
 
Team Hendrick :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

Come to California, to the Fontana race. I saw a LOT of Hispanic, and black folks as well as the eastern populace represented there. Saw a lot of oriental folks there as well. So, maybe SoCal is more of a melting pot???? Dunno the
answer to that one. But all were pleasant and not acting unusual. I was simply put, Pleased to see all of them. Far as I am concerned, one racing fan is just like all the others and a "brother or sister" in a common interest.
 
I've never had a problem anywhere. I like TRL, travel alone. I feel very safe at the race track. I've met a lot of nice people. I'm safer and more accepted at the track than walking down the main streets of Milwaukee.


Team Hendrick..... :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
 
Twenty, thirty years ago, seeing a black man at a big time NASCAR race would definately cause a stir if not a problem somewhere. Times change, people change and today, there are lots of people of color who attend this great sport and more of them are enjoying it all the time. Our local track is located right in the middle of the minority community and we always see young blacks and their families enjoying the races. We don't have a lot of rebel flags flying around our track, but the consession's have plenty of them for sale. This whole thing is being perpetuated by minorities, real small minorites. Minorities not of color, but of the mind.
 
Originally posted by buckaroo@Oct 18 2004, 05:10 PM
Twenty, thirty years ago, seeing a black man at a big time NASCAR race would definately cause a stir if not a problem somewhere. Times change, people change and today, there are lots of people of color who attend this great sport and more of them are enjoying it all the time. Our local track is located right in the middle of the minority community and we always see young blacks and their families enjoying the races. We don't have a lot of rebel flags flying around our track, but the consession's have plenty of them for sale. This whole thing is being perpetuated by minorities, real small minorites. Minorities not of color, but of the mind.
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:cheers: :cheers: :cheers:


Well said, Buck.
 
Originally posted by TeamHendrick@Oct 18 2004, 01:38 PM
Well, I suppose being hispanic I fall into the category of "minority" (at least for now :p ).
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Hispanics are the largest minority in the US. For whatever that's worth to ya'.

:cheers:
 
Originally posted by buckaroo@Oct 18 2004, 07:10 PM
Twenty, thirty years ago, seeing a black man at a big time NASCAR race would definately cause a stir if not a problem somewhere. Times change, people change and today, there are lots of people of color who attend this great sport and more of them are enjoying it all the time. Our local track is located right in the middle of the minority community and we always see young blacks and their families enjoying the races. We don't have a lot of rebel flags flying around our track, but the consession's have plenty of them for sale. This whole thing is being perpetuated by minorities, real small minorites. Minorities not of color, but of the mind.
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BRAVO BUCK! :salute: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: (that's Guinness, just for you)
 
So what's the deal with the rebel flag? I thought it represented where you were from. (The south) Why is it associated with racism? I've heard that it was a symbol of racism, but never really knew why.
 
Originally posted by Steve007@Oct 19 2004, 01:21 PM
So what's the deal with the rebel flag? I thought it represented where you were from. (The south) Why is it associated with racism? I've heard that it was a symbol of racism, but never really knew why.
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Well, most people who have an issue with the Confederate flag do so because it represents to them slavery and injustice to african american people as those were the colors that flew for the south during the civil war era.

It's a source of general southern pride for most who fly it, but just like anything else, those that wave it to tout racism continue to cause the negative connotation that the flag recieves.

Just as the swastika is used to represent Nazi Germany, because of the atrocoties commited under it's banner it is seen as a universally evil symbol. But what most seem to forget is that the swastika symbol itself is one of the oldest symbols known to man. Used by many ancient civilizations and nations, it's true meaning is "to be good". But because it was used to represent a terrible regime it will forever be considered bad. This is somewhat of an extreme example, but it shows how certain symbols (regardless of their origin) can come to be looked upon in a negative light.

One of these days I hope we get over this overly PC phase we're going through.
 
Originally posted by Steve007@Oct 19 2004, 01:21 PM
So what's the deal with the rebel flag? I thought it represented where you were from. (The south) Why is it associated with racism? I've heard that it was a symbol of racism, but never really knew why.
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It really isn's racist, it represents the south. It was the flag of the Confederate Army during the Civil War. Seeing as how the Civil War was fought mainly because of slavery it has taken on the label of racism.
 
I could fill pages with links, true history, and quotes from President Lincoln himself regarding that chapter of American history. If any are interested, I will do so privately. But I think this legend from (of all places) a t-shirt manufacturer sums it up best:

If this flag offends you, you need a history lesson.

confederate_flag_150.jpg
 
Looks like the roof off the "General Lee". ;)

Thanks for the info.
 
You always see these bumper stickers and hear people say "The South will rise again!"

I never knew they rose in the first place.
 
Lol! You won't believe this. A couple of weeks ago I was in a local donut shop parking lot. In comes this huge circa 1988 GMC 4x4. Great big tires, roll bar and lights. Rebel flag on the front plate. I thought to myself, "Watch the guy that get's out of this truck. Must be some 300 pound behemoth."

Out climbs a 5'6" 130 lb guy. White tank top blue jeans and Cowboy boots. Here's the kicker. The boots had really pointy toes with spurs. I thought it was Yosemite Sam!!!
 
Originally posted by buckaroo@Oct 18 2004, 11:10 PM
Twenty, thirty years ago, seeing a black man at a big time NASCAR race would definately cause a stir if not a problem somewhere. Times change, people change and today, there are lots of people of color who attend this great sport and more of them are enjoying it all the time. Our local track is located right in the middle of the minority community and we always see young blacks and their families enjoying the races. We don't have a lot of rebel flags flying around our track, but the consession's have plenty of them for sale. This whole thing is being perpetuated by minorities, real small minorites. Minorities not of color, but of the mind.
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There is still racism practiced at races and it has been observed first hand and recently. Like Buckeroo mentioned, it is a small minority, just as the small minority who post on websites declaring their lack of prejudice but it shows, it really and truly shows. So in the end, no one fools anyone except the people who say they aren't racially prejudiced. And the only person they fool is themselves.
 
Actually that flag was the battle flag. The confederacy had many flags through out the War of Northern Aggression. I've often wondered why folks didn't fly
stars_ba.gif
or
confed2.gif
or
confed3.gif
. These were the official flags of the Confederacy. Personally I've always liked the Bonnie Blue Flag
bonnie_blue.jpeg
but it was unofficial.

As to sports, some lend themselves more to people of color than others. Racing and Ice Hockey immediately leap to mind as being sports that people of color tend not to participate in or attend. This is changing but it is slow. Your sports with balls tend to have many participants of color and the attendees are at a higher percentage than other sports.

The question that I have to ask is how many of the protesters were wearing their X shirts or Power shirts. That tends to bely what they are trying to accomplish...
 
Here I go again, probably going to piss off a bunch of people, but that's my nature. First off, for anyone who wants to know, I was raised in a small town in northwestern Oklahoma and the only black people I ever saw were either on TV or from the closest bigger town in Ok that our local high school played. (those teams usually whooped our butts regularly). I've lived all over this country and searved four years in the US Air Force during the times this country was highly divided by violent racism, the 60's. Now that you know me a little better, here goes. I've lived here in the "south" now for almost ten years so it isn't as though I've just been thrusted into this place. My hometown now is almost 45% black so again, it isn't as though I'm still living in my lilly white Oklahoma where I grew up. Some of my best friends here are black and one in particular is my favorite golfing partner. We aren't just close neighbors, but we consider ourselves to be close friends, though I've gotta say that golfing and football are the only interests we have in common, outside the fact that he is also a conservative Republican. Anyway, as such, because I am white, I have privy to what most white people think and say in private, but my friend also shares when me what most of his black friends say in private, as I also share with him. Racism still exists and in my humble opinion, will never ever cease. I've seen the rebel flag flown on many occasions and those who fly it claim openly that it isn't a racial thing, but privately will admit that it is. Of course, the same thing can be said about FUBU clothing on the other hand. The difference today is that while these people will hold their racist thought permentantly, they don't usually put them out in the open. With the exception of the flag and many of those who fly the flag aren't doing it because of racism. I don't know what the figures are and I know that to most here in the south, the stars and bars are a symbol of the south, not racism. If you're a Texan and you see a longhorn steer, what do you think? If you're from California and you see a Golden Bear, what do you think? If you are from New York City and you see that famous NY on a baseball cap, what do you think? The rebel flag is a symbol of the south, with all it's history, from slavery to wanting to separate from the north. Not just one thing and to say that today it only represents one thing is the same to me as saying that the Stars and Stipes represents those people who dropped the bomb on Japan. While both statements are true, there is much more to the story. Yes, racism is alive and well today, but it doesn't only exist on one side of the line.

Peace brother. :cheers:
 
I've encountered ignorance/bigotry/racism at races in the past although it has all been verbal, never physical. Mostly comments made loud enough for the black family walking by to hear it. I was offended myself. But, NASCAR has nothing to do with it. There are ignorant people everywhere and unfortunately there always will be.

I'm just not sure what these people expect NASCAR to do about it. Or what they possibly hope to accomplish. :wacko:
 
Originally posted by EatMorePossum@Oct 19 2004, 06:56 PM
I could fill pages with links, true history, and quotes from President Lincoln himself regarding that chapter of American history.  If any are interested, I will do so privately.
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Steve007, if you or anyone else have a sincere interest in the Confederate Flag and War Between The States, there are books by intelligent people and well-read historians with no personal agenda or declaration of who was right, wrong or indifferent.

Perhaps the most unbiased and best book written about the War Between The States is James M. McPherson's, "Battle Cry of Freedom" for which McPherson won the Pulitzer Prize in history.

If you seek a partisan view, check out Bruce Catton books which cover the "northern" view and "The South Was Right" by Messrs. Kennedy give a biased view from the southern perspective.

There are many books written about Presidents Lincoln and Davis, the individual generals, and depending on the author, can elevate or deflate the images of individuals or logic.

The thing is, if you want a "fair" point of view on The War Between The States, it takes time and patience and in the end you can draw your own conclusions. If you want the synopsis "quick, down and dirty and are looking for the easy way out", ask someone and you will get a personal, biased version of the reasons, events and outcome, from which side will depend on the the person answering the questions.

Steve007, in the end, the choice is yours and the choice of anyone willing to take the time to do the research.
No matter the conclusion one draws as a final analysis, if any, one thing is abundantly clear, there were no winners in the War Between The States and the reason(s) for the war are history. It is as much a heritage and legacy for people from the north as the south and hopefully, something never to be repeated.
 
Originally posted by buckaroo@Oct 19 2004, 07:04 PM
Anyway, as such, because I am white, I have privy to what most white people think and say in private, but my friend also shares when me what most of his black friends say in private, as I also share with him. Racism still exists and in my humble opinion, will never ever cease. I've seen the rebel flag flown on many occasions and those who fly it claim openly that it isn't a racial thing, but privately will admit that it is.
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If I had the money and were old enough, I would buy you a beer. Nice post, brother! :cheers:
 
Buckaroo 10-20-04 12:04 a.m.
QUOTE "I've seen the rebel flag flown on many occasions and those who fly it claim openly that it isn't a racial thing, but privately will admit that it is." QUOTE

QUOTE "The difference today is that while these people will hold their racist thought permentantly, they don't usually put them out in the open. With the exception of the flag and many of those who fly the flag aren't doing it because of racism." QUOTE


Am I missing a point or something here 'cause I'm confused. Not a new thing with me as it happens to me all the time.
 
Originally posted by buckaroo@Oct 19 2004, 08:04 PM
I've seen the rebel flag flown on many occasions and those who fly it claim openly that it isn't a racial thing, but privately will admit that it is.
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All very well and fine. Then there are always those who proudly display it who honestly and sincerely have no agenda other than recognizing heritage and furthering the spread of true history, not the PC nonsense being spread today. I fall into that latter catagory.

But disect as you wish. It matters not to me. Folks are gonna believe as they will; I content myself in the knowledge that the research I have done has led me to the decision I arrived at despite the barbs being launched my way hinting otherwise. If only more people could make that same claim regardless of the topic of discussion, we'd have a better educated populace. Too much to hope for I guess.
 
Originally posted by EatMorePossum@Oct 20 2004, 03:37 PM
All very well and fine.  Then there are always those who proudly display it who honestly and sincerely have no agenda other than recognizing heritage and furthering the spread of true history, not the PC nonsense being spread today.  I fall into that latter catagory.
But disect as you wish.  It matters not to me.  Folks are gonna believe as they will; I content myself in the knowledge that the research I have done has led me to the decision I arrived at despite the barbs being launched my way hinting otherwise.  If only more people could make that same claim regardless of the topic of discussion, we'd have a better educated populace.  Too much to hope for I guess.
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This gracious offer by EMP is extended to help those interested in, " the spread of true history, not the PC nonsense being spread today" while adding, "I fall into that latter catagory".

EatMorePossum is also quoted, "I content myself in the knowledge that the research I have done has led me to the decision I arrived at despite the barbs being launched my way hinting otherwise. If only more people could make that same claim regardless of the topic of discussion, we'd have a better educated populace. "

It would be quite beneficial if EMP were to post a list of books and informational sources that brought him to the conclusions he reached so myself and others be afforded an opportunity to become better enlightened on the subject matter and hopefully become members of "a better educated populace".
 
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