Kids in Old Mens Cars

buckaroo

buckaroo

Here kitty, kitty, kitty
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Here's a question I think is very interesting. We've all seen how successful Jamie McMurray has been since filling in for Sterling and Kevin Harvick filled in great after the death of Dale Earnhardt. The question is, how much of their success is due to the fact that they stepped into cars that were already successful and that was due to the fact that the veterans were the ones who helped set the car up. Since the beginning of this year, Harvick has had to help set the car up by himself with the rules of this year and his performances have not even come close to last years results. Will the same thing happen to McMurray next year? You may ask, what about Jimmie Johnson? He didn't step into a veterans car. Actually, I believe that he did, to some extent. Wasn't he using Jeff's cars at the beginning of the year? How many times have we seen a substitute driver hop into a car that is good and do well? I've seen it time and time again. I'm sure that some of the new kids have more ability than others, but just how much of that is due to another driver? Next year will be interesting. Let's compair the really raw rookies to those in their sophomore year.
 
I tend to agree buckaroo.This is a good explanation for Jack Roush having a good posse.Jack has Vets,and good equipment to steer the youth. ;) And welcome to the forum my friend.:)
 
Thanks for the welcome. I've been trying to find a good forum for a while now. I've tried and tried. Hope this is a good place. For the past 6 or 7 years, most of my chat has been through an e-mail group that we started on Prodigy some 10 years ago. However, e-mail groups tend to get stagnant and seldom gets any new blood.
 
Yep.........I agree too. Also adrenaline kicks in too with a well setup car to step into.:)

And just like pbunch......Welcome to the forum!!:D A fun place to come to.
 
The exception to that rule would be Ryan Newman. Rusty even said that he's now using more of Ryan's stuff than his own.
 
Yep, I agree that Ryan Newman is an exception. For that reason, I believe that Ryan will be a formidable opponent for all the other drivers for a long time to come. Ryan just coule be the next "Jeff Gordon" as some want to call it.
 
TWF is always throwing monkey wrenches into things!!:( Jerks my mind around with stuff like that!!:huh:
 
Ya,But at least Ryan can throw a good fishin pole in the water.I think Ryan is a Dale Jarret mixed with Jeff's go for the glory approach.;)
 
Ryan reminds me so much of Alan Kulwicki. Even looks a little like him.
 
yea but ryan dont exactly have crummy equipment though ( dont mean to take away from his skill)
 
Originally posted by smack500
yea but ryan dont exactly have crummy equipment though ( dont mean to take away from his skill)
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He sure is showing the world what Jeremy Mayflop is made of, though.
 
They are stepping into cars where the team is successful and the sponsor is there. Look at Kurt Busch who got a new crew chief and how well they have been doing lately.

But in regards to guys like McMurray and Harvick, I still think it is too early to tell. We obviously have seen Harvick's year has been subpar and McMurray well we will find out in the next year. The experience of the team that knows the tracks is the biggest key in my opinion.
 
Originally posted by TN-Ward-Fan
He sure is showing the world what Jeremy Mayflop is made of, though.
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Yep,And I look for Jeremy to be cast in the Gomer Pyle Remake before he looks at another win too TW.:D With DW playing Sgt.Carter.:)
 
Ya also gotta figure the team into the deal.

I thought Kurt would be strong last season, but who in the entire Roush organization really was?

This year, new ballgame.

Harvick may have suffered much of the same malady this season. RCR is just off this year across the board.

JJ may be in or was in Jeff's old cars, but he ran better than Jeff pretty consistently. Jeff, like Rusty, actually started to use some of JJ's setups. Story is Jeff ran the car, came in, and said man you are nuts!

So many factors in the deal, too many to pin it all on one.
 
Jeff slacked off this year,I look for him to get his head twisted back on next year.;)
 
When a kid climbs inside a pre-set car and is told to shut up and drive, great things happen. And it happens over and over again. These new kids know how to drive.

I think Harvicks slump was due to the fact that as the car changed to meet new nascar specs the old Big E set-ups had to be discarded. It's one thing to know how to drive, and quite another to know what to do to make a car win.

Look at these new kids, they tell their chiefs something, the chief sez I'll fix it, and back out they go. The winners believe in what their chiefs do and the losers are probably those that don't or don't have the car to get to the flag first anyways.

nuff out of me tonight.....bone tired.....night all.
 
i think these kids are as good as most, but they do walk into an aweful lot of money unlike most of your older guys. if they walked right into this kinda money, who knows what woulda happened;)
 
There are far too many examples that suggest instead that Cup cars just aren't that difficult to drive. You don't have to be some legendary experienced driver that talks to the wind to be successful.

Any talented young kid can jump into a (competitive) car and beat the old farts...
 
Originally posted by WindyCityRacer
There are far too many examples that suggest instead that Cup cars just aren't that difficult to drive.  You don't have to be some legendary experienced driver that talks to the wind to be successful.  

Any talented young kid can jump into a (competitive) car and beat the old farts...
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Care to name a few?

If it were that easy, I think more people would be doing it.
 
Kevin Harvick, Kurt Busch, Ryan Newman, Jimmy Johnson, Jamie McMurray...

That enough for ya?

Michael Waltrip, Ricky Rudd, et al have gone on record saying all it takes is some degree of talent...but that the most important ingredient for success is a competitive car.
 
Originally posted by WindyCityRacer
There are far too many examples that suggest instead that Cup cars just aren't that difficult to drive.  You don't have to be some legendary experienced driver that talks to the wind to be successful.  

Any talented young kid can jump into a (competitive) car and beat the old farts...
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Hmmm...maybe I'll give it a try if its so easy. I could use the extra cash.
 
Not a bad idea. It seems like getting the opportunity is the hardest thing about it...
 
I wonder if these drivers could be added to your list WCR?

Dale Earnhardt
Davey Allison
Tony Stewart
Matt Kenseth
Dale Earnhardt Jr

or these

Jeff Gordon
Johnny Benson
Dick Trickle

All these folks had impressive rookie seasons. That seems to be the criteria for making the list.
 
Originally posted by WindyCityRacer
Not a bad idea.  It seems like getting the opportunity is the hardest thing about it...
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If only my daddy had a race team then I could drive for him...
 
Originally posted by HardScrabble
I wonder if these drivers could be added to your list WCR?

Dale Earnhardt  
Davey Allison
Tony Stewart
Matt Kenseth
Dale Earnhardt Jr

or these

Jeff Gordon
Johnny Benson
Dick Trickle

All these folks had impressive rookie seasons. That seems to be the criteria for making the list.
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Who are those guys? ;)

Absolutely! Any young driver that's won and been a championship contender as a rookie would be on that list. I think you'd find a common thread between them all though...superlative machinery.

I'm not much of a NASCAR historian to tell you who on your list above fits into that category...

Harvick would be the iffy one on my list. Now that I think of it, Kenseth is certainly a better selection...
 
Just to be sure I understand.

Based on this statement "Any young driver that's won and been a championship contender as a rookie" .

The analysis then is based on the circumstances of any young driver, not an assessment of his skills or talent from observation of his performance on the track.
 
Originally posted by WindyCityRacer
Any talented young kid can jump into a (competitive) car and beat the old farts...
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Guess I'd have to refer you back to this gem... ;)
 
Originally posted by WindyCityRacer
Guess I'd have to refer you back to this gem... ;)
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Cool, just wanted to be sure.

So we have a driver with talent in a good car.

Reckon maybe we could add in a good "team"? Meaning a combination of owner, CC, crew, and support personnel. Maybe throw a sponsor in there while we're at it.;)
 
Sure defeats the notion that you have to be some 45 year old horse whisperer with a million miles under your belt to be successful...

...which addresses the topic of this thread if I'm reading it correctly...
 
Trying to establish the point that the driver, car and team are inseparable.

A highly talented driver cannot bring a substandard car to the front on his own. i.e Tony Stewart at Rockingham.

Nor will the race always be won by the fastest car, a pit call can make a world of difference. i.e. Matt Kenseth at Phoenix.

Nor is it always easy to pinpoint the biggest factor. i.e. Kurt Busch winning at Martinsville over Johnny Benson, where I fel that both drivers are very talented, and that Johnny's car was the faster in the final laps. (That is of course an opinion, which is my point)

Note: I tried to pick recent races so the events might be fresher in everyone's mind.

One might also look to the first race of this season. Ward had a very good car, but not the fastest. He had good pit stops, but nothing special there gained him an advantage. The team did everything it could and in the end the Fair Lady of Racing gave him a grin. Ditto the last win Jamie picked up in BGN.

And finally there are examples of a driver having a car which on a given day, nobody had anything to run with it.
 
You've provided fantastic examples (I agree its best to use recent examples)... and I agree... but the basis of my argument is that, with all things being equal (pitstops, luck, equipment, etc.), 'experience' doesn't really mean that much...

I know its impossible to prove...but I think that recent results (especially this year) support my point.

From this I conclude that its probably not that difficult to hustle one of those cars around after all...

...and from this, well...draw your own conclusions...
 
i dont think its the fact that veterns set them up........i think its simply because they are all on great teams and driving great cars.

yes Harvick was driving Earnardt's car last year, but he was also driving his own Busch Car last year, which he had a major role in setting up.............that resulted in him winning the Busch Championship and Cup Rookie of the year all in one year.....thats pretty amazing. (not a harvick fan)

but back when guys like Ricky Rudd, DW, DJ, DE, Bill Elliot, Rusty Wallace, and Terry Labonte came along, they were driving terrible cars.

these rookies are great, dont get me wrong.....but dont just assume they are the best rookies ever. they are in cars that are twice as good as what previous rookies were driving.
 
Originally posted by WindyCityRacer
 

From this I conclude that its probably not that difficult to hustle one of those cars around after all...

...and from this, well...draw your own conclusions...
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And I must grant you your conclusion, whether we share it or not is irrelevent.:)

And I salute you. Good arguments, well presented and fully appreciated. IMHO, The way it should be done!

See ya in print more often I hope. It has been a pleasure.

:beerchug:
 
Originally posted by HardScrabble
And I must grant you your conclusion, whether we share it or not is irrelevent.:)  

And I salute you. Good arguments, well presented and fully appreciated. IMHO, The way it should be done!

See ya in print more often I hope. It has been a pleasure.

:beerchug:
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We absolutely agree on this :D
 
Originally posted by buckaroo
The question is, how much of their success is due to the fact that they stepped into cars that were already successful and that was due to the fact that the veterans were the ones who helped set the car up.  
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All of it.
 
Originally posted by TN-Ward-Fan
Care to name a few?  

If it were that easy, I think more people would be doing it.
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There are more doing it, Winston Cup has a what...40 something car field every week?

That's a huge field.
 
Originally posted by TN-Ward-Fan
He sure is showing the world what Jeremy Mayflop is made of, though.
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ok..."mayflop" made me laugh pretty darn hard...my kids are lookin at me like i'm nutz!!....:D..definitley have to file this away for use at a later date!!..
 
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