Kyle Busch appreciation thread

StandOnIt

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I think it may be a bit telling on raw speed as well. A flat 2.5 miler with long straits and no practice should really let us know what teams have speed and handling off the truck.

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could be, the traction compound had a bit of an effect in helping passing in the turns during the Arca race. A good run thru the corner helps on being able to pass. But even though they had three caution breaks, and two incident cautions, it still was a single file parade if they ran many laps. A couple laps after the cautions were decent.
 

jaqua19

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He'll be in the playoffs. But I don't think this is alarming. If people were expecting 2015-2019 Kyle for the reminder of his career, well, I don't know.

Kyle has had multiple seasons like this through out his career. He's had 2 or 3 30+ winless streaks.. he got the win at Homestead. When was his last win before that ?

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Revman

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Toyota started the year and continues to an extent to be behind both the Fords and the Chevys. Will they catch up? that is what makes it interesting. One of the Yotas biggest problems is their investment in only 4 top shelf cars compared to the other two makes who support much higher numbers. Penske and SHR put 8 cars capable of winning on a given weekend. Hendrick is about it for Chevy, 4 cars similar to the Gibbers, but they have so many vehicles in the field compared to the Toyota's the odds of them doing well with lesser cars is pretty large.

Toyota isn't behind anybody anymore. Job well done TRD. In fact, I am wondering if we are watching the Chevys fall behind. Inexcusable given the gift they were given. They should be at least 40 pts. up in the Manufacturers Standings. When you look at how they had to ****can their first attempt at the Camaro, and now this....you have to wonder if this manufacturer isn't a complete mess.

Ford has Harvick who has been lights out this year....but having said that, Toyota has Hamlin in the midst of an amazing year. One SHR car plus three legit Fords at Penske makes the count a push. As I have mentioned, however, I don't walk into a race weekend thinking that WE don't have enough speed for the Fords. WE are as quick as they are, and probably better than the Chevys unless they are hiding a big development push.
 

Revman

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He'll be in the playoffs. But I don't think this is alarming. If people were expecting 2015-2019 Kyle for the reminder of his career, well, I don't know.

Kyle has had multiple seasons like this through out his career. He's had 2 or 3 30+ winless streaks.. he got the win at Homestead. When was his last win before that ?

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Truth....but I get that we measure performance in terms of wins and points, but 2014 taught me that there are other ways to look at performance. This is not the worst he has been. He does have a good car under him now with a package that he cannot wait to get out of. Additionally, this is a format (no practice) that doesn't serve him. He has had speed, but is bogged down in traffic much of the time without the extra push to find an adjustment to make it more manageable.....he is too busy being pissed about this type of racing.

To your point.....2019 really had a lot of luck to it.....I can't remember when he won before that. Denny and Martin had issues, and Kyle was just good enough.....Having said that, 2017 should have been his, but Joey had an agenda.
 

jaqua19

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Toyota isn't behind anybody anymore. Job well done TRD. In fact, I am wondering if we are watching the Chevys fall behind. Inexcusable given the gift they were given. They should be at least 40 pts. up in the Manufacturers Standings. When you look at how they had to ****can their first attempt at the Camaro, and now this....you have to wonder if this manufacturer isn't a complete mess.

Ford has Harvick who has been lights out this year....but having said that, Toyota has Hamlin in the midst of an amazing year. One SHR car plus three legit Fords at Penske makes the count a push. As I have mentioned, however, I don't walk into a race weekend thinking that WE don't have enough speed for the Fords. WE are as quick as they are, and probably better than the Chevys unless they are hiding a big development push.
I don't think Toyotas are as fast as the Fords right now. Harvick and Blaney have been two of the three fastest cars. The 12 has had top three speed basically every single race this year. They just can't put together a full race. Delaney should have had two top five finishes this weekend. Instead, I think they have two finishes outside the top 20.

Love ya Rev, But I think you may be looking at this with some Toyota colored glasses. With the exception of Denny, the Fords seem to be faster overall.

I do think Harvick and Hamlin are the favorites this year though. I'd be happy to see either one of them win. Denny is way overdue for a championship, he's been close too many times, has those three Daytona 500 wins And he is more than deserving at this point. He'll get one.

We know Phoenix is Harvs bread and butter.. But Danny absolutely whooped them there last fall.

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jaqua19

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Truth....but I get that we measure performance in terms of wins and points, but 2014 taught me that there are other ways to look at performance. This is not the worst he has been. He does have a good car under him now with a package that he cannot wait to get out of. Additionally, this is a format (no practice) that doesn't serve him. He has had speed, but is bogged down in traffic much of the time without the extra push to find an adjustment to make it more manageable.....he is too busy being pissed about this type of racing.

To your point.....2019 really had a lot of luck to it.....I can't remember when he won before that. Denny and Martin had issues, and Kyle was just good enough.....Having said that, 2017 should have been his, but Joey had an agenda.
This is definitely not his worst season. Not at all. there was one year where he completely missed the playoffs all together. He didn't go winless, but I can't remember which season that was. last year did have a lot of luck, and I commend you for acknowledging that. But having good cars and having good speed and good race execution welcomes lady luck into performance.

So I don't necessarily see success and luck as mutually exclusive. Although at homestead the 19 and the 11 were arguably a little bit better.

And a lot of ways, I still feel that 2008 was arguably Kyle's most impressive season, up until the Chase. 8 wins in the first 22 races is nuts. He had the points lead. The 48 came on strong later, but Carl had just as much pace as Kyle, and those two won 17 of the 36 races that year. So to have that much success when another driver is performing at such a high level is very impressive. Carl in 2008 went 9/21/27, that stacks up against today's best seasons. So to be outpacing that for 26 races is incredible.

Kyle lost speed in the Chase, but in a lot of ways, he hasn't duplicated the magic of the first 26 races of that season. He has had two seasons that have been better overall than that..but that was the best 26 race stretch of his career imo. But he didn't win the title. He did last year after being the most consistent. He was outperformed in the playoffs, that's kind of the point. Regardless of the format, the champion is a champion.

Even Martin Truex Jr :( ;)

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Revman

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I don't think Toyotas are as fast as the Fords right now. Harvick and Blaney have been two of the three fastest cars. The 12 has had top three speed basically every single race this year. They just can't put together a full race. Delaney should have had two top five finishes this weekend. Instead, I think they have two finishes outside the top 20.

Love ya Rev, But I think you may be looking at this with some Toyota colored glasses. With the exception of Denny, the Fords seem to be faster overall.

I do think Harvick and Hamlin are the favorites this year though. I'd be happy to see either one of them win. Denny is way overdue for a championship, he's been close too many times, has those three Daytona 500 wins And he is more than deserving at this point. He'll get one.

We know Phoenix is Harvs bread and butter.. But Danny absolutely whooped them there last fall.

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Pocono historically was a good gauge of performance, but I am not sure that this is the case anymore with this package. Having said that, there have been years when it was clear that WE were behind. That was not clear yesterday. I wasn't worried about Harvick catching Denny yesterday, and Denny was closing on Saturday (to a degree). I think that the Fords set up with less drag, and count on their drivers to drive around the traffic issues while MY Toyotas build in more downforce. I don't think that the Fords are as good as the Toyotas without Penske engineering so there is that.

Martin's has not been as fast as he had been since Martinsville. Before that, he was very fast. Denny has been lights out. Kyle is well documented. Eric has been fine, and Christopher is a rookie. In Ford, you have Harvick the equal of Denny, Joey and Brad have been better than Martin et al. It is closer than the points would indicate.

Denny was lights out at Phoenix in the fall, but that was a completely different package. This is Harv's House in low downforce.
 

jaqua19

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Pocono historically was a good gauge of performance, but I am not sure that this is the case anymore with this package. Having said that, there have been years when it was clear that WE were behind. That was not clear yesterday. I wasn't worried about Harvick catching Denny yesterday, and Denny was closing on Saturday (to a degree). I think that the Fords set up with less drag, and count on their drivers to drive around the traffic issues while MY Toyotas build in more downforce. I don't think that the Fords are as good as the Toyotas without Penske engineering so there is that.

Martin's has not been as fast as he had been since Martinsville. Before that, he was very fast. Denny has been lights out. Kyle is well documented. Eric has been fine, and Christopher is a rookie. In Ford, you have Harvick the equal of Denny, Joey and Brad have been better than Martin et al. It is closer than the points would indicate.

Denny was lights out at Phoenix in the fall, but that was a completely different package. This is Harv's House in low downforce.
Low DF at Phoenix? Didn't realize they were doing that package. Cool.

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I expect the W at Indianapolis.
Everytime you say that, it ends up being the opposite.

My crystal ball broke years ago.

It's a track Kyle is really good at though and with how Toyota has looked at Pocono, I expect a similar result at Indy.
 

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Remember when Jimmie Johnson was washed up at the first 17 races of the season and then won the championship over and over?

Yeah, Kyle will be just fine. It’s only a matter of time before Stevens and company figure out how to set the car up before it unloads and when that happens the rest of the field is in for a world of hurt.
 

JGR_20

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I just never feel like a guy like Kyle will ever be counted out. One win, all the sudden he’s locked in... then they still have months to stumble around. Looks bleak at the moment, but for Kyle and his talent... if the 18 team gets even ‘close’ to what they need, Kyle can make up the rest
 

jaqua19

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Remember when Jimmie Johnson was washed up at the first 17 races of the season and then won the championship over and over?

Yeah, Kyle will be just fine. It’s only a matter of time before Stevens and company figure out how to set the car up before it unloads and when that happens the rest of the field is in for a world of hurt.
But Jimmie won a bunch before the Chase, had the clear cut best team around him and had a lot more success than Kyle has. Prime Kyle is almost a Jimmie light, so, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume the 18 isn't in championship form this season.

I don't think any of us who are down on him this season are expecting a first round exit and no wins.

I'm down on him this season and 2-3 wins and bouncing in the round of 8 doesn't seem unrealistic.

I also wouldn't be surprised if he goes winless.



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jaqua19

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I just never feel like a guy like Kyle will ever be counted out. One win, all the sudden he’s locked in... then they still have months to stumble around. Looks bleak at the moment, but for Kyle and his talent... if the 18 team gets even ‘close’ to what they need, Kyle can make up the rest
But we said that about Jeff Gordon and Jimmie Johnson.

Kyle WILL reach a point where he starts to decline and wins will become harder to come by. Not saying it's now, but...

Kyle has three 30+ race winless streaks in his career. Without Homestead last fall, it would be his longest streak of his career. This will happen.

The error in the fanbase is the recency bias, and assuming he's going to continue to win 5-6 races each year and contend for the title each year.
Not a lot of drivers do that. 18 team is off, but Kyle is doing a REALLY good job of keeping it together. And it's fine. He just isn't having a championship calibur season and will have stronger seasons in the future.

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Another week with Kyle losing a cup race plus cheating in Xfinity so they tossed that W in the trash can! Lol.. I'm really enjoying this little side story to the 2020 season :laugh:
 

BobbyFord

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Another week with Kyle losing a cup race plus cheating in Xfinity so they tossed that W in the trash can! Lol.. I'm really enjoying this little side story to the 2020 season :laugh:
Dude salvaged a 4th place driving a Toro mower after Blaney ran out of talent on a restart.
Don’t count Kyle out just yet.
 

ChexOrWrex

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Kyle WILL reach a point where he starts to decline and wins will become harder to come by. Not saying it's now, but...
Lol you already changing your story now that the #18 team found a little more speed?
 

StandOnIt

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He had what at least 400 laps probably more of practice on the field and couldn't win a stage? The Gerbs are yoter shills thru and thru, but even they are starting to wonder if that is the best he can do when he loads the deck.
 

jaqua19

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Lol you already changing your story now that the #18 team found a little more speed?
What the hell are you talking about Chex? My entire point that Kyle's struggles are just part of the ebb and flow of success at the cup level, even for an elite driver like Kyle. Nothing's changed.

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BobbyFord

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What the hell are you talking about Chex? My entire point that Kyle's struggles are just part of the ebb and flow of success at the cup level, even for an elite driver like Kyle. Nothing's changed.

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Kyle is a driver that benefits from laps and adjustments. Bring back practice and Kyle will be in the top five points.
A lot has changed. No practice, multiple races at the same track, no adherence to a normal schedule, no fans, no extended crews....
 

jaqua19

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Kyle is a driver that benefits from laps and adjustments. Bring back practice and Kyle will be in the top five points.
A lot has changed. No practice, multiple races at the same track, no adherence to a normal schedule, no fans, no extended crews....
Sure. Kyle is just having an off year.

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jaqua19

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Because this year is just like any previous year /s
I would buy that. Except he isn't running any worse than he was before covid. The 18s baseline is clearly below the other contenders. In order to justify this claim, you'd have to assume that the 18 benefits more from practice than any other title contending team in the field.

I don't believe the lack of practice is hurting him as much as some of you are making it out to be. I'm sure he would be running better with practice, but I don't think he would be a contender week in and week out. What's keeping him from running with the 11, 19, 12 and 4 isn't practice imo.

I'm sure they will find speed during the playoffs and I bet in 2021, he will be back to championship form. covid or no covid, I just don't think this year is the year. I could be a wrong.

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StandOnIt

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And so it begins

Kyle Busch
Can't Win Them All


 

JGR_20

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I’m sure many might disagree, but for me... visually it’s ‘felt’ like Toyota/JGR is slightly off from the last season or so...

I know hamlin kinda bucks that statement to a degree... he’s had strong success. But I think JGR as a whole is just a touch slower this season.

plays into things a bit for kyle.

But a guy like this... Kyle could win a race or two and follow it up with 7 top 5s... Then the storyline is all “you remember when we were talking about this guy struggling?!”
 
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