Kyle Busch is 20 wins Away From Tying Richard Petty at 200.

FearThe4

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not really but the way Nascar is coving it these days and they are counting all his wins in all 3 series it would not shock me if they tried to make a big deal out of this when he does reach 200 and make Kyle the new King of Nascar.
 
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Snappy D

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not really but the way Nascar is coving it these days and they are counting all his wins in all 3 series it would not shock me if they tried to make a big out of this when he does reach 200 and make Kyle the new King of Nascar.
I thought Petty won his 200 in Winston Cup series? Is this the part where people tell me that the level of competition was the reason for those wins? Petty didn't have control over that.
 

FearThe4

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I thought Petty won his 200 in Winston Cup series? Is this the part where people tell me that the level of competition was the reason for those wins? Petty didn't have control over that.
NBC are counting all of kyle busch's win in the truck and xfinity series aslong with the cup series to put him at 180 on which if they only counted the Cup(which is all that should matter) he at 40 wins now I belive.
 

Snappy D

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NBC are counting all of kyle busch's win in the truck and xfinity series aslong with the cup series to put him at 180 on which if they only counted the Cup(which is all that should matter) he at 40 wins now I belive.
Yea that be the proper way to do it I believe, just count the Cup wins
 

Johali

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The crackdown on Cupwhacking next year will slow it down, but I think it's inevitable. Even if you don't consider the future Truck and Xfinity wins, I think Kyle probably has 20 more Cup wins in him before he hangs up the helmet.
Maybe so but I hope not. The resulting negative furor would be deafening.
 

Greg

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200 is not attainable nowadays unless run in lower Series. Petty didn't get to 200 racing 36 races a year.
Averaged less than 35 starts per season over a 35 year career.
 
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I think the resulting furor of when Kyle gets to total win 201 will be delish. On one side there will be righteous indignation and on the other it will mean proof that Kyle is the GOAT lol.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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I thought Petty won his 200 in Winston Cup series? Is this the part where people tell me that the level of competition was the reason for those wins? Petty didn't have control over that.
To be fair to Kyle, many of Richard Petty's 200 wins came in 100 lap races against 15 car fields.

WHEN Kyle gets to 201, XFINITY or not, he has to be considered as one of the greatest in history.
 

LewTheShoe

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WHEN Kyle gets to 201, XFINITY or not, he has to be considered as one of the greatest in history.
If you want to believe all wins count and can be added together, the target to shoot for is Dick Trickle, with over 1,200 wins. Steve Kinser had 577 wins, counting only his top series elite level races. Richie Evans had more than 480 wins. Fred Rahmer 420. Jerry Cook 342.

Please note that all of these - and many more I could name - are above the 200 mark. The reason Petty's 200 wins is a revered achievement is that they all are Cup wins, and Cup wins are more special than most.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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If you want to believe all wins count and can be added together, the target to shoot for is Dick Trickle, with over 1,200 wins. Steve Kinser had 577 wins, counting only his top series elite level races. Richie Evans had more than 480 wins. Fred Rahmer 420. Jerry Cook 342.

Please note that all of these - and many more I could name - are above the 200 mark. The reason Petty's 200 wins is a revered achievement is that they all are Cup wins, and Cup wins are more special than most.
I'm looking strictly at NASCAR, and strength of field and such. Richard also got to race 60 times a year many years -- granted Kyle Busch, combined in the three series, averages more starts per season than Petty averaged. Today's XFINITY fields are probably tougher than many of Petty's Grand National wins. 200 wins is a huge accomplishment in NASCAR.

But your point really brings up my biggest gripe about how the media covers Kyle Busch. Whenever they talk about any other driver, they talk about their Cup wins. But, when Kyle Busch comes up, they merge stats. And they've been doing this for a long time. And the merging stats really doesn't take into account that no other driver in NASCAR goes for those XFINITY and Truck wins the way Kyle does. They make a few starts here and there, but most care about winning Cup races and Cup championships -- whereas Kyle Busch cares about a combined win total.

Kyle Busch is the only guy who ran full-time in XFINITY and close to full-time in Trucks for years. I know others have, but not to the same degree as Kyle Busch. Edwards and Keselowski come close though.

I have a lot of problems with this stat, and the way Kyle's wins are merged. Still, to deny that Kyle Busch is one of the greatest drivers of all time is denying reality. And he's still got 10-15 years to go... he might end up winning several championships still. He's probably going to get a second one this year.
 

kyle18fan

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To be fair to Kyle, many of Richard Petty's 200 wins came in 100 lap races against 15 car fields.

WHEN Kyle gets to 201, XFINITY or not, he has to be considered as one of the greatest in history.


All the 200 wins are listed in my link in post # 25
 

bigspud

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All the wins are listed here ........... a disturbing number of them were untitled races at fairgrounds ...... many on the dirt as well



http://www.nascar.com/news-media/2017/07/02/cataloging-all-200-of-richard-pettys-nascar-wins-one-by-one/
uh-oh
did not get 200
qualilyng races dont count

Win No. 5

Date: May 21, 1961
Race: World 600 Qualifier No. 1
Track: Charlotte Motor Speedway, 1.5-mile track in Concord, N.C.
Notable: Victory helped Petty win the pole for NASCAR’s longest race; qualifier also marked the series debut for NASCAR Hall of Famer Bobby Isaac.
 

kyle18fan

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uh-oh
did not get 200
qualilyng races dont count

Win No. 5

Date: May 21, 1961
Race: World 600 Qualifier No. 1
Track: Charlotte Motor Speedway, 1.5-mile track in Concord, N.C.
Notable: Victory helped Petty win the pole for NASCAR’s longest race; qualifier also marked the series debut for NASCAR Hall of Famer Bobby Isaac.


Some of them races are very suspect ........... it didn't take much to be a cup race back then
 

AndyMarquisLive

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NBC are counting all of kyle busch's win in the truck and xfinity series aslong with the cup series to put him at 180 on which if they only counted the Cup(which is all that should matter) he at 40 wins now I belive.
NBC is extremely biased towards Kyle Busch and has been since day one.
 
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Exactly, that's my point, no one is getting 200 without running lower Series.
But the question is...''should they be counted''? I say ...... no... not cumulative..... That would be the same as totaling up all Mark Martin's wins over the 3 series (96)....... and saying he is a more winning driver than Darrell Waltrip, Bobby Allison, Jimmie Johnson and whole string of drivers...... It just ain't so.
 

jaqua19

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Times changed. Back then, thats all there was. Xfinity and Truck is full of legitimately lesser talent and less experience. While Kyle winning all those races is impressive, it is legitimately against lesser drivers, certified "minor leagues". His cup total being less than half of his NASCAR total doesn't really help.

Edwards has something close to 70 NASCAR wins, but we don't talk about that. Kyle doesn't get an outlying creteria of measurement because it fits a narrative. It's 2017, there are three different series with three different levels of talent. In general when measuring drivers against drivers, we go by their performance in the series they all race in. When measuring a drivers success, we go by their cup career.

When Kyle makes his place among the GREATEST cup champions, which he will, it will be his cup career that is measured by everyone except his fans.

60+ wins and 2-3 titles is still all time great numbers. But Kyle's chance to be on that Earnhardt, Johnson, Petty, Jordan tier has already passed. Instead of boosting him up, we should be celebrating what he is OBJECTIVELY. Which I am more than happy to do.

That is, an all time great with what will arguably the longest cup cup career, a multi time champion, and a winner of races who is making his mark in nascar history. Not calling him the GOAT does not discredit him. He isn't the GOAT.
 

AndyMarquisLive

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Here's my one thing with win totals too. Should we consider the New England Patriots of 2007-2008 the greatest NFL team of all time for getting 18 wins even though they didn't win the Super Bowl?

The Chicago Bears have more wins than any other NFL franchise in history. Are they the greatest team in NFL history? Is Dallas the greatest team in NFL history because they have the highest win percentage? Should we count Green Bay and Baltimore's pre-NFL championships?

When considering MLB stats, should we pad one player's minor league and little league baseball stats with his MLB stats to make the argument that he's the Home Run King?

Kyle's the most talented driver in NASCAR history, IMO, and one of the greatest ever. As for the Kyle vs. Richard thing, it's different eras. Hell, I wouldn't put Petty's seven championships in the same category I'd put Earnhardt and Johnson's seven championships.
 

jaqua19

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NBC is extremely biased towards Kyle Busch and has been since day one.
Yes..yes they are.

And he's the only one talked about like that. I've also said Johnson's ability as a driver has been very underselled on TV as well.

But every era has had 2 all time greats. Tony's career flamed out. So they are trying to raise KB to be THAT 2nd guy. The only problem is it doesn't work because Johnson has been exclusively dominant.

It just goes back to marketing, like it does for every sport.
 

jaqua19

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But the question is...''should they be counted''? I say ...... no... not cumulative..... That would be the same as totaling up all Mark Martin's wins over the 3 series (96)....... and saying he is a more winning driver than Darrell Waltrip, Bobby Allison, Jimmie Johnson and whole string of drivers...... It just ain't so.
Bingo. I still don't understand what makes him the most "talented" ever? It can't be what he does in a cup car. Is it eye test? If so, he isn't the best with that either, in my eyes. Eye test goes to Earnhardt, Pearson, and Johnson in my opinion.
 
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