Labor Pains..........

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Eagle1

Guest
There is an article at R-1 by Pete Pistone that is extremely good, also a post that I thought might be good here, I do have the authors permission to repost it.
an article by Pete Pistone is a very good one in which I believe most of us fans, old & new, will agree with.
http://www.racingone.com/article.aspx?artnum=20547

I really like the November Idea, that date never occured to me.
IMO though I don't think we need 2 dates at Fontana, because of the tempeture variences in that area, we have a race in Sonoma so that is 2 in CA. I'd rather see a race in the PNW in place of the Fontana date.
Just as a thought I believe the idea of racing near LA is just stars in the eyes of many,(not just Brian, .....Roger Penske built the track). The more ideal area would've been in the Lower OC or San Diego area, the temps year round are much more pleasent. Now that area could hold a Feb race and the weather would be perfect,

BTW the article mentions that Cali hasn't sold out for 2 races, but has had 90,000 in the stands, this doesn't include infield campers which is another 10-15,000 and that is soldout for the next 3 years.
So I read posters on forums (this one and others) start pounding their chest and touting the retoric that Cali don't deserve a race because the people of the area don't support it?
Hmmm let me see if I understand this correctly, a total sell out of the stands is 92,000 so because the track only reaches 90,000 in the stands plus infield RV it's considered a failure? Yeah right in their wildest dreams. LOL
I read.... Give a date back to the "ROCK"! Yeah that is REALLY funny they couldn't sell 35,00 tickets and even with CA's failure they still sold almost 3 times as many tickets.

The one I chuckle at what some people say;...........

I think it'd be fair. Not selling out was the justification for closing the Rock, so let's give California the same scenario. If they did take a date, maybe they could take the fall date & shuffle the schedule around, moving the Southern 500 back to Labor Day.

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I don't know..but didn't Darlington lose its date because of ticket sales, and like you said--ticket sales would without a doubt skyrocket at Darlington if they brought the Southern 500 back..
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Yes....... but the "ROCK" hardly sold 35,000 tickets CA only sold 90,000 (which BTW is only 2000 from a sellout
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) DUH...... that's still almost 3 times as much!
Oh sure ticket sales would skyrocket at Darlington if they moved the race back, but for how long?
NASCAR gave 2 years warning about the ticket sales and attendence at Darlington, did people listen???? Heck NO! Only AFTER NASCAR made the switch did Darlington finally sellout for the final "Southern 500".
My personal opinion in a perfect world would be to have the Labor Day "Southern 500" back, but I do completly understand from a business perspective why it's happened, and the fact is NASCAR did send a clear message BEFORE but no one cared enough then.
You can't complain about crappy government if you don't vote. You had an opportunity to make a difference, but failed to participate.
Same thing with these tracks losing dates because of lack of ticket sales, IF you don't purchase a ticket and go, you don't have the right to act all indignate and get mad. You have the opportunity to send your messages to NASCAR (by ticket sales) but failed to participate.
Oh and BTW, even not selling out, CA ticket sales isd still almost twice as many as Darlington's seating capacity.

As for poor ticket sales, gee, couldn't see that one coming.
Who'd have thought that sales would go down once the novelty value wore off for all those pseudo fans that Nascar has been so desperate to woo in the past few years?!
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Beach Volleyball is more popular than nascar. Why has the NFL fail in LA. They more concern about so called sports like beach volleyball and x-games sports.
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Boy the 2 statements above truly floor me, are people really this clueless? I guess on a whole I give my fellow humans far to much credit for using that knot on their shoulder for something other than a hanger for some kind of sports cap. It is really sad to see how wrong I am.
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Please show me a track hosting a NASCAR top 3 division, an IRL, CART or F-1 race that is 100% sold out by fans of that particular area ONLY, ....NO Tourist. .......................... Well....????

The honest facts ARE, there have ALWAYS been true NASCAR fans all over this country, just as NASCAR has sanctioned tracks all over this country from the very beginning.

Bottom line people, if you got a track you really love or just want to make sure keeps its race date(s) get of your fanny and buy a ticket.
NASCAR is a business for profit, it is NOT the government with a welfare program. NASCAR is privatly owned, and so are the tracks, unlike stick and ball stadiums in which the tax payers pay for. Pretty amazing to me how tickets to other sports for a couple hour game isn't much less than a NASCAR ticket, but they get their stadiums at your expense. So in reality how much id that ticket costing you?
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Sad part is even people that don't care for the sport are forced to help pay for those stadiums..
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OK, this is my thoughts about the moving of dates in NASCAR.


As a NASCAR fan for over 50 years, having been raised in New England and remembering MANY family vacations that were family camping trips to different race tracks to see a GN race,( including the "Rock" & Darlington) Having lived in GA for over 15 years, (attending lots of races all over from NC to "Dega") now living on the west coast I certainly have an opinion on this labor day race thing. I don't list this stuff to try and give the impression that I think my opinion is more valuable than any others, just that I do have sufficient background in the sport to understand the history and tradition as well as another fan.

Personally I and most NASCAR fans I know out this way, hate it that they moved the Labor day race from Darlington. That honestly has to be one of the stupidest things NASCAR has done recently, especially to us fans that have been watching for a number of years.
But....... in just a few short years, "IF" things stay as they are more people will think of the Darlington "Mothers Day" race as tradition, because it will be "their" tradition because most of us older fans won't be around. Hopefully I'll be around in 10-20 years, but honestly reality says that isn't likely, so the generations behind me will decide what tradition is to them. The history will always be the same, past history & current history mix together always changing the face of things.

To be honest with all the hollering about NASCAR killing the sport (that in itself is funny and incorrect, because NASCAR is a business, in the sport of auto racing) because they are changing it and growing it beyond borders no one ever dreamed, is in fact actually keeping it alive and healthy. If something doesn't grow and change continually (like it or not) it will die. Everything (all businesses included) have a life span unless it can evolve and morph into something different, what is necessary at the time for continued life.

You know these tracks are like political races, - don’t bitch about the government unless you vote, - Don’t bitch about a track losing a date for lack of attendance unless you’re purchasing tickets and attending the races. NASCAR is after all a business, not a charity.

I’ve read people complaining NASCAR “OWES” the towns and communities where these races have been held for many years. I’m not sure what it is they think they are owed, nor why they think they are owed.
In many cases the track has not always belonged to NASCAR/ISC , they may or may not have purchased it prior to changing the schedule, (many times they have so they’re not screwing a business partner of many years) and a few times they have then resold that track to other individuals. The new owners could keep the race dates at that track, “OR” move that/those dates to another track that person owns.
I’m just curious to a few things,
#1 WHY isn’t the rage by these fans of these communities at the person that owned and sucked in the profits for many years before selling out to ISC? These owners new what was happening when they accepted their money and ran, why shouldn’t they “OWE” the community?
To start with, just like any big business employer that has been part of a community for years, the track has paid property taxes, more than likely had to pay for improvements to infrastructure to accommodated the expected traffic. Most tracks and big businesses in a community does things and makes donations to make the community a better place to live, Plus they provided employment over the years paid employee taxes and benefit packages. Which provided a living for many families.
Being the kind of business it is, the nature draws thousands of tourist from all over the country, which created many outside businesses as well as hundreds of addition jobs, even if just seasonal helps communities with the cash coming in. This is true economic development, as it brings in a fresh cash flow from outside the area, not just recycling cash within.

#2 Exactly what is it any of these communities have done for NASCAR, that they should consider NASCAR indebted to them and they “Owe” them?
From my view point I feel it is exactly the opposite. Kind of like those “Capitol One” commercials. LOL Because of NASCAR these communities have had a liciense to rape and pillage ALL the people coming into their community to participate in the events at the track, fans and participants alike. Just wonder over the years how much Extra money they made by jacking up prices and gouging people on everything from basic foods, to lodging, camping etc.? I’ll bet for some of these communities it’s in the billions that they would’ve never seen if not for NASCAR, regardless of Who owned the track.
So can someone please explain to me why NASCAR OWES anything more to these communities?
Sure some of the community members have gone to the races and spent some money at the track, but FAR more has been brought in from outside the area than is spent from within, and that is true for every track across the country.

Not to pick on Darlington, but using them as an example for the tracks that have lost dates in recent years, maybe things could’ve been different if these communities thought about how they could help draw more people to their community and make their stay very enjoyable that they’d rather come visit there and see a race than anywhere else. If they’d charged fair prices like they do the rest of the year instead of doubling or tripling prices because of the suckers about to flock to town on these weekends.
How much did the community spend to help improve roads accessing the track? How much did the community spend to help increase the seating at the track?
In fact, I’d like to know just a few things any of these communities have done to thank NASCAR, the track owner, the fans visiting that didn’t mean bringing in more revenue for the community involved.

Then there is this really stupid thing I read people say all the time, “Well (insert name of track) doesn’t deserve a race because they don’t have enough fans to fill the stands. All I got to say is ?????WTF are you talking about??????
If that was actually the requirement NO community would have a race unless they only had a few thousand seats.
NO, I repeat NO tracks stands are filled entirely by fans from that particular area, every track depends hugely on tourists to fill the stands.




To be honest IMHO, one of the dumb things NASCAR did was putting 2 dates out here in CA, taking our April date and moving it to Feb.. Feb is our cold rainy season and lots of people won't plan on going just in case.
Then the Labor day weekend race is stupid as crap, it's always in triple digits. I don't remember last year (they did add mist'rs under the stands,) but the race before they carried over 1000 people out on stretcher from the heat.
In the first Feb. race, the Bush race was red flagged for rain, I can tell you it was not rain, it was "slushing" at 38 degrees.
No, the past couple races have not sold out, but there were over 90,000 people in the stands, That's still a pretty fair amount and way more than some tracks.
But...... I do agree with many, Cali should not have 2 races. Very stupid having Vegas just 2 weeks after CA you lose people that would travel to both if they were further apart in time.
Ideal time would be April - May, the month of June this year was breaking record highs over 100 and in that area was between 109- 116.
 
The flip side is why won't the owners sell N.Wilkesboro so there can be racing there again (OK, not NASCAR) rather than letting the weeds grow. There were legitimate offers on the table. Do they owe the community?...
 
barelypure said:
The flip side is why won't the owners sell N.Wilkesboro so there can be racing there again (OK, not NASCAR) rather than letting the weeds grow. There were legitimate offers on the table. Do they owe the community?...
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You know bp, I agree with you. I think it utterly ridiculas the way those 2 rich men are acting.

And YES I believe they do owe the community. They got what the wanted from it, there's no reason in the world the both couldn't donate their share to the community through an economic development corp or something of that nature. Goodyear did that with a plant they closed in VT, to help incubate businesses to help replace some of what was lost in jobs when they left. Hell, it'd be 100% tax deductable to them.:einstein:
 
kelloggs5TLfan said:
Power struggle.
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Between who? They could sell and split the money and let someone else benefit the community by bringing back tourist dollars. While I don't agree with eminent domain this is 1 time I would make an exception and let the guv'mint step in and force the sale. What a waste...
 
Hey bp, just a thought here. It appears the problem is that Bob Bahre and Bruton can't get along to agree on selling the place because if one is willing the other is not just because the other one is.

So how about working on 1 of the owners and doing eminant domain to the other one? Atleast that way you'd be going through the right process but forcing the stubborn one into doing something. Think that could work? Do you know if talks have actually been done with either or both owners? Is one willing and the other holding out? What is the actual status?
 
[QUOTE=Eagle1;268136]Hey bp, just a thought here. It appears the problem is that Bob Bahre and Bruton can't get along to agree on selling the place because if one is willing the other is not just because the other one is.

So how about working on 1 of the owners and doing eminant domain to the other one? Atleast that way you'd be going through the right process but forcing the stubborn one into doing something. Think that could work? Do you know if talks have actually been done with either or both owners? Is one willing and the other holding out? What is the actual status?[/QUOTE]

That's been the alleged problem from the start.
 
The people around here are ticked at both Bahre and Smitty about NW, but we still realize that probably nothing will happen there. Junior Johnson has been trying for years to get something done and if he can't get things moving, no one will.

As to why dates are taken away from tracks, much can be said about the selling out of the dates, but let's face it, the real reason is where those tracks are located. NASCAR wants to woo big time sponsors and in the sand hills of North Carolina, there isn't much there for those sponsors to be wooed on. Darlington has the same problem. And think of the hotels in the area. Not as many as they would love that are close enough to the track to make a difference. Even Bristol is out in the boonies as far as that is concerned. Those of you that have been able to attend a race there can attest to the fact that it's extremely hard to find a room within a hundred miles of the place.
 
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