Liberal

M

mngopherguy

Guest
Honest question here: Why is the word Liberal hated so much on this board? It seems to me if your a liberal your not evil or anything :) Are many people Republicans or what? Just curious.
 
No problem with me. I don't like Liberal politicians, Democrat or Republican, who try to give away my tax dollars. Pork barrel politics turns me off no matter who's doing it.
 
Liberals aren't bad, if they are prepared correctly. I perfer mine slow roasted over an open pit.
 
Gopher, I think that it really has nothing to do with politics.
I am Liberal on some issues, Conservative on some, and don't give a damn about some others. Like TRL said, those who take and misuse our Tax money (like $600 for a toilet seat).
 
NASCAR having the origins it has, it is not surprising that many of the fans have the political ideas they have. Even with the influx of new fans, the sport appeals primarily to a certain demographic. While this demographic is expanding to a degree, the core of NASCAR fans remains fairly conservative in bent.

I personally consider myself conservative in most areas. Overriding that notion, however, is the concept of what's right and what's not, which is completely subjective and as such pointless to delve into here.

I will say this, though. I have never voted for a Democrat in my life.
 
Democrats sucker the populous into believing that they are the gaurdians of all that is good and right...that if it weren't for the Democrats...the big evil Republicans would be destroying the wetlands, enslaving blacks and keeping all women pregnant and barefoot.

They sucker their consituency into voting with their hearts, instead of their brains.
 
Though not all Democrates are "liberal" (as applied to politics), the Democratic Party as a whole certainly is. Aside from the belittling of people for being something other than "politically correct" (correct being in line with the Democratic point of view), they tend skew public opinion in a covenient direction to "prove" they are right. Public opinion polls if done correctly can guage the general population's feelings on what is and is not important.......but can also be very misleading (even flat out lies) if done improperly. Take a look at TV commericals. They often offer up "polls" to tell the public that their particular product is the best. What is not told is that if that "poll" had said another product was preferred by most.......it would simply not be made public. The art of poll taking has gotten rather suffisticated.........ask the question in a certain way and you can get a a predictable answer. Both parties use this method (which is why polls should be viewed with a great deal of suspicion), however the Democrates seem to use it more.......makes a somewhat gullible general public think and support a viewpoint that is not necessarily true. Gun control has been polled to death over the years. In general, the questions asked are about "are you concerned with the increase in gun violence in this country"? Rather obvious answer to that one. Then something on the order "would you approve a law to restrict gun violence"? Another obvious answer. Then possibly "would you consider hand guns, semi automatic and automatic weapons to be the most deadly"? Obvious answer there, too. Now a trick question......"if those weapons were not available would the country be a safer place"? Most people would say yes........but is that true? The trick part is "not available". "Not available" is an impossibility because if they exist, they will be available........not available in a city, state, country does not pervent them from entering. Just means someone has to go elsewhere to get them......only the law abiding citizens would not be able to get them. However from my extreme example, the "fact" could be presented that most people favor gun control. So, taking that right away from the population is really okay since the majority of the population thinks it's best. My point I guess is to be skeptical of "polls" and people who use them to "prove" a point.......think about what basic rights or privilages you are giving up before you let yourself be convinced. Who's conducting the polls and why. Is it a poll to promote political correctness? Does it really make sense. Just because it sounds good, doesn't make it good. That is my problem with "liberals"........the lying, without really lying.

Freedoms can and will be lost if enough people's thoughts can be manipulated. Take the rights guarinteed in the Second Amendment away, then what is next? Hackers can disrupt this country with malicious hacking. Since that is probably true and I'm sure most people would be concerned about it, what if "for the better good" the internet was shut down.......or every email you send is intercepted and routed through a network of government computers and "read" and logged? Afterall Al Qaeda has been using the email system to communicate........loose a little right to privacy is just a small price to pay "for the better good"! Snicker if you want, but it is happening right now. We need to wake up. Freedoms and rights are being eaten away.......and it appears "liberals" are more active than "conservatives" at this point in time.

Sorry about the windiness of this post.
 
While I tend to agree with you DE, I would have to say that a lot of the infringement going on is headed up by the current president...not the left.

Also, using email and the internet is not a right, it's a privlege.
 
Originally posted by paul
Also, using email and the internet is not a right, it's a privlege.
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The use of the internet and the email system is a privilage and not a right. However, should the internet be shut down for whatever reason, it would akin to outlawing automobiles......you have no right to own and drive a car either:) But you do have a right to freedom of movement. You also have a right to communication.

And on the present President taking liberties away.......probably some validity to that. But we do have a national crisis at this moment. I believe everything he has advocated has been Constitutionally legal......in other words, no irreparable harm (yet!!). Also, he's done everything in the open, and has not done a swarm of polls to "justify" his actions. But, I agree, we must be watchful and careful.:)
 
I consider myself a conservative. I don't hate liberals. I don't agree with a lot of their ideas, But I don't argure any topic it would serve no purpose. When the dust cleared I would still be conservative and they would still be a liberal.
 
Originally posted by kat2220
Gopher, I think that it really has nothing to do with politics.
I am Liberal on some issues, Conservative on some, and don't give a damn about some others. Like TRL said, those who take and misuse our Tax money (like $600 for a toilet seat).
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I thought that was just the government in general :)
 
I mainly was asking because this board seems so right wing to me. Atleast thats my impression. And I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that :) And I also didn't want to sterotype anyone (southerners ect.).

For me, I don't vote Democrat or Republican. I generally vote Independent. Thankfully in Minnesota we have 3 legit parties. Most Independents here call themselves the sensible center. While I vote for probably half Independents, I also vote for Democrats and occasionally Republicans. I vote because of each candidate and do my homework. I know thinking on my own! I feel like the worst thing anyone can do is blindly vote one party. I personally don't usually vote republican, because to me its about trust more than anything. And while in high school I learned my beliefs are considered moderate Republican, I personally don't trust many of them. I can deal with disagreeing with my rep, if I can trust them and feel that they feel they are doing their best for their citizens.

Anyway, like I said earlier, I was just curious. And I didn't mean to offend anyone with my comments.
 
I will counter with a few things: For everthing people have complained about Democrats on here, I think to Republicans and think this: Care only for the rich, give the tax breaks to the rich, worry about Big Business and how to get their hands in it. We know about the money Bush got out of this. Why isn't he a thief, liar ect like people on the board say about Clinton? Why doesn't it go both ways? Because you vote Republican so you must some how defend him? Pac money was an issuse here, as was Republicans taking in whatever money they could from whomever. I understand people's demographics like TW said, but I laugh at the notion that on this board Republicans are always the good guys. Maybe thats stretching it a bit, but I think you get my point. As far as I'm concerned most of them are crooked. I'm all for adding parties to the mix. I'd love to see a few other parties kicking Republicans and Democrats out of offices. Any reform to get away from all the corruption that keeps getting worse. I'd be in favor of scrapping the whole political party system and have people run on their beliefs. Unfortunately I have no clue how that could work :(

Anyway just my 2 cents. I know I'm outnumbered here, so fire away.....
 
I choose not to "fire away" as you asked for, however...

I don't think anyone here said ALL republicans are good or that ALL democrats are bad. It is simply a general feeling that has been supported by their actions over the years that democratic politicians are inherantly decieptful and very destructive to the american way of life. As Paul said, they tend to do anything that gets them elected or keeps them in office. "Punishing the rich" is a philosophy that has won many, many offices for democratic candidates, but simply doesn't work. It is also completely unfair. They have tried to punish prosperity for years. However when they do things to hurt the successful people in this country, everyone else gets hurt. They devalued the tax implications of owning property in an attempt to gouge wealty people. The result? They quit buying and building so guess who got hurt? You guessed it, the people who put these morons in office paid the biggest price through loss of jobs etc. While the welfare system seems like the compassionate thing to do, it has created a cycle of dependancy on the government that has created too many problems to list here. Generation after generation of welfare dependant people have had their lives ruined, our country is in dept up to it's eyeballs, they take way too much of the money I earn to fund these programs, etc. etc. etc. But the democrats don't care, because it helped them get reelected for many, many years and has created a government structure so large it is impossible to recognize what it was originally intended for.

Again, I'm not saying all democrats are evil, just that the democratic ideals of big government being able to help you if you just vote for us is one of the biggest problems in our country.

Also, if you can't see the difference (in integrity, morals, etc.) between Bush and Clinton we may have no need for further discussion.
 
I have a copy of this hanging by my desk at work. While I agree that these are not followed to the letter any more, it makes for interesting reading and food for thought. I cannot say that I personally disagree with any one of these notions. I did not create this, nor do I know who did. Just some thoughts to mull over I guess.

Lincoln's Ten Guidelines and Republican Party Philosophy

1. You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.

2. You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.

3. You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.

4. You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.

5. You cannot help the poor man by destroying the rich.

6. You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.

7. You cannot further brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.

8. You cannot establish security on borrowed money.

9. You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence.

10. (my personal favorite) You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.

IMO, if we as a country could return to these values, and sidestep the whole Democrat/Republican conservative/liberal hogwash, we would see a dramatic turnaround. But I ain't holding my breath.
 
Thanks TNWF...that was very interesting reading. And I agree wholeheartedly.
 
Awesome Ward, and 4x you were on a roll man. why did you stop the mo.?

Quote:
I think to Republicans and think this: Care only for the rich,(if liberals focus on the poor what do you think they will create more of? i know, stupid question. they want to get elected right?) give the tax breaks to the rich, (hmmm, i think its 10% of the country pay 90% of the taxes. ok, lets take away the wealthy's money to pay for the poors mistakes... that sounds like socialism to me, go overseas and stay a while. why do you think we are the greatest country in the world? not just because of diversity, but there is INCENTIVE to achieve) worry about Big Business (well, i dont have any clue who else is employing people since the liberals decided everybody would be better off working for someone else rather than have their own independant business) and how to get their hands in it(you mean bread more wealthy people).

and about defending someone? who do you know that you would support and elect to a position of leadership and not defend that person.
 
Originally posted by judas1
Awesome Ward, and 4x you were on a roll man. why did you stop the mo.?

Thanks judas1...I was afraid my roll would step too hard on a few toes.

Have any of you ever heard this quote? "If you are under 30 years old and are not a liberal, you have no heart. But, if you are over 30 and are a liberal, you have no brain". I don't remember who said it, but it has a lot of truth to it. Except I never considered myself heartless but I'm sure some people would have. :eek:
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Originally posted by paul
Friendly tip...

When quoting someone...don't delete any of the
or tags.

If you do...your post will be all malformed like 4x's above.
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Thanks for the tip Paul. I hate being "malformed"
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1. What Bush got away with was after the elcetion, was it not? (honestly not sure it is 5:45 am) So you could have voted him in, and now say he is a theif. I understand defending him, if you truley believe it. I still think alot of people will defens him because he's republican and thats what they vote. Again, not pointing any fingers at anyone particular on the board.

2. Difference between Clinton and Bush? They both are theives who stole money, and they both found ways to stay out of a war, only to send other men to war. To me their one in the same.
 
Originally posted by mngopherguy
1. What Bush got away with was after the elcetion, was it not? (honestly not sure it is 5:45 am) So you could have voted him in, and now say he is a theif. I understand defending him, if you truley believe it. I still think alot of people will defens him because he's republican and thats what they vote. Again, not pointing any fingers at anyone particular on the board.

2. Difference between Clinton and Bush? They both are theives who stole money, and they both found ways to stay out of a war, only to send other men to war. To me their one in the same.
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While I am not real ammused with Bush's failure to serve in the military, I think the similarities end there. I have to plead ignorance on the charge of him stealing money because I really have no clue as to what you are talking about. There is no way Bush would ever be caught doing the morally reprehensible, profesionally unforgivable, and blatantly illegal things Clinton has been guilty of. No way could I see Bush risking the integrity of the highest office in the land for a 5 minute hummer from some corn-fed cow of an intern. Or lying to the grand jury, or...
 
i too do not know of this theft people are referring to, but i do know that we had to support clinton after his shinanigans because he was our leader. the least we could do is find the good things in our present leader so that other countries dont see that we are divided and find our weaknesses. after all, he is human. we should work on ourselves before we try so hard to dig up crap on others. if its blatant, we cant help but have it on our minds, but if we have to go digging for it, who is better off?
 
I am not a liberal, nor a conservative, I don't like the labels and don't like to be categorized. Issues need to be taken on a case by case issue. All this crap about Bush this, Clinton that is getting really old. If you take yourself out of the discussion and sit on the side line it is actually quite interesting. When you get someone who complains about Bush, they bring up Clinton, THE PAST, ITS OVER. He will never be in the white house again, not even as a first-husband. In order to be a criminal, one has to be CONVICTED of a crime, neither Bush or Clinton were convicted of a crime. Just venting, thanks everyone.
 
go over and read the SAINTLY DEMOS thread, wholly cow!!! you might change your tune:satisfied
 
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