Manipulating races w/ BS cautions

2 Sweet

2 Sweet

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We have seen cautions trending upwards for years now, but they really need to draw the line somewhere. Whether it's dirt on the track, balloons in the infield, phantom debris, a tire in a pit stall, a bird dropping feces near the finish line, whatever it may be. There are way too many bogus cautions thrown when there is absolutely no potential danger to anyone's safety. When guys harmlessly spin and immediately get back going, no debris anywhere, they throw the yellow. Even when guys get LOOSE for a second and out of the groove, then gather it back together, they will occasionally throw the yellow for that. Seriously.

Nascar has forgotten the definition of a caution. Why? The answer is simple: in Nascar's eyes, restarts create the best racing. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually decide to drastically shorten every race and break it into several segments, having mandatory restarts every 4-5 laps.

It's a bunch of BS. Let the races play out naturally and keep the manufactured drama to a minimum. Had I been a new fan tuning in to the race today for the first time, I would never watch again.
 
I don't fault NASCAR for erring on the side of caution (pun intended). In today's society, short attention spans and drama rule the world. You will be hard-pressed to find anyone nowadays who can't go 5 minutes without checking their Facebook or Twitter feeds on their phones. NASCAR is actually being smart by trying to create as many restarts as possible. I vehemently oppose their outlook but I don't fault them one bit.
 
I knew the race was be rigged when they didn't penalize the loose tire.
 
Today was the worst ever. I thought Brian had learned his lesson early in the season where we nearly had a caution free race, but this was ridiculous.
 
As has been pointed out by many on this board, unfortunately it's only a matter of time before the caution clock comes to the Cup series. And this is just their way of manufacturing them until that time comes.
 
Lets face it, the sport is dying. Attendance, viewership is on a sharp decline. Without changes (not saying this would be the right move) its only a matter of time before racing goes to an internet-only format.
 
2 Sweet said:
We have seen cautions trending upwards for years now, but they really need to draw the line somewhere. Whether it's dirt on the track, balloons in the infield, phantom debris, a tire in a pit stall, a bird dropping feces near the finish line, whatever it may be. There are way too many bogus cautions thrown when there is absolutely no potential danger to anyone's safety. When guys harmlessly spin and immediately get back going, no debris anywhere, they throw the yellow. Even when guys get LOOSE for a second and out of the groove, then gather it back together, they will occasionally throw the yellow for that. Seriously.

Nascar has forgotten the definition of a caution. Why? The answer is simple: in Nascar's eyes, restarts create the best racing. I wouldn't be surprised if they eventually decide to drastically shorten every race and break it into several segments, having mandatory restarts every 4-5 laps.

It's a bunch of BS. Let the races play out naturally and keep the manufactured drama to a minimum. Had I been a new fan tuning in to the race today for the first time, I would never watch again.
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Check the TV ratings and check the grandstands. The fans are well aware that they're getting screwed, and they've reacted.
 
RacerrecaR said:
I don't fault NASCAR for erring on the side of caution (pun intended). In today's society, short attention spans and drama rule the world. You will be hard-pressed to find anyone nowadays who can't go 5 minutes without checking their Facebook or Twitter feeds on their phones. NASCAR is actually being smart by trying to create as many restarts as possible. I vehemently oppose their outlook but I don't fault them one bit.
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Nascar loves the double wreck restarts as they cause more cautions and double wreck restarts. Erring on the side of caution is OK but calling a caution because of a harmless tire roll is insulting.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Watkins Glen has 33,000 permanent seats.
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Even those weren't all full. I'm still not sure how they determined it a sellout?? I'm pretty sure 15-20 years ago this race was getting 150k+ when you counted GA tickets. It was a really nice crowd though. Watkins Glen is a spectacular place to spend the weekend....

I feel like after NHIS and Indy debacles NBC/NASCAR has been really trying to sell the attendance. Today they seemed to make the sure the drivers were mentioning it. Even Pocono got a shoutout for their Sunday then Monday turnout.
 
Surely we're not going to complain about the size of today's crowd.
 
Yes i'm done with the sport and will not even TRY to watch again for 3 or 4 years. I may stop posting here soon as well,
 
With all of the people here blowing **** about how much they hate this sport....so help me God if my 2016 Kyle Busch Champion's gear is on backorder--I'm gonna explode!!!!!!
 
JD McNugent said:
Lets face it, the sport is dying. Attendance, viewership is on a sharp decline. Without changes (not saying this would be the right move) its only a matter of time before racing goes to an internet-only format.
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Not for another 8 years at least.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Erring on the side of caution is OK but calling a caution because of a harmless tire roll is insulting.
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I think you get insulted by Nascar way too easy, almost as if you are looking for something to be insulted by. Nascar's blanket policy not to send people across pit road under green flag running may be overly conservative, I don't know if it is or is not. But I wouldn't want to decide which tracks I could send out a subordinate and which tracks I couldn't. Leveling the charge that Nascar does that just to create more restarts and more wrecks seems simplistic and spiteful IMO. BTW, wasn't that the first such caution of the year? And I recall one at Texas, but can't remember if it was 2015 or 2014?

Sunday's race had an unusual amount of major clean up of fluids, so several cautions seemed very long... They *were* long, but they had to be. I too found that frustrating, but sometimes that is just part of the deal.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I think you get insulted by Nascar way too easy, almost as if you are looking for something to be insulted by. Nascar's blanket policy not to send people across pit road under green flag running may be overly conservative, I don't know if it is or is not. But I wouldn't want to decide which tracks I could send out a subordinate and which tracks I couldn't. Leveling the charge that Nascar does that just to create more restarts and more wrecks seems simplistic and spiteful IMO. BTW, wasn't that the first such caution of the year? And I recall one at Texas, but can't remember if it was 2015 or 2014?

Sunday's race had an unusual amount of major clean up of fluids, so several cautions seemed very long... They *were* long, but they had to be. I too found that frustrating, but sometimes that is just part of the deal.
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It sure is disappointing how the season has turned out given how well it started. Talking heads in the booth talking about clean air be very important at WG, it doesn't matter if BKez runs out of fuel because he is in the playoffs and crowd killing tire on pit road stopping the race. Wow!

I know I don't look for ways to have my intelligence insulted with Nascar as some of the things they do could be seen clearly by a glaucoma patient. I would like to see more racing like we did at the beginning of the year but for whatever reasons that is not possible. I don't begrudge you or anyone else in either approving or accepting the way Nascar calls some races as it isn't for me to tell someone else what they should or should not like. By the same token I am certainly entitled to voice my opinions, concerns and criticisms too.

Regarding long cautions IDK there were any as I DVR all the races and FF through the dead time and as far as I know didn't say a peep about them. Regardless I had bailed on the race by that time anyway as I couldn't stomach it.
 
I give it a 8.5. Racing was good. Not nascars fault everybody ran out of talent right there towards the end. I thought it was an entertaining race.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Biggreen695 said:
I give it a 8.5. Racing was good. Not nascars fault everybody ran out of talent right there towards the end. I thought it was an entertaining race.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I agree , great race . I do not understand some fans today . Seems like if their driver doesn't win , it's the races' fault . Oh well five or six less fans isn't going to matter . Wish you guys could have found a way to enjoy the sport like the rest of us .
 
There have been some instances instances where I felt a caution wasn't necessary such as when cars spin out and can continue. There have been a some debris cautions where I've wondered why - they don't always show the debris in every caution (and really don't need to). Overall I think they call cautions when they need to and they typically stop the race when clean up will take too long to let them run to the end of the race. It has been said that cautions breed cautions which is true because restarts is one of the best ways to gain a position and drivers take more risks.
 
ted@economy said:
I agree , great race . I do not understand some fans today . Seems like if their driver doesn't win , it's the races' fault . Oh well five or six less fans isn't going to matter . Wish you guys could have found a way to enjoy the sport like the rest of us .
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Getting back to races like Atlanta earlier in the year would be a great start!

http://www.racejournalonline.com/index.php?page=read&article=627

"I knew that debris caution was comin', but y'know, we gotta do what is right for the fans, and they need to see a great race at the end."
-DENNY HAMLIN
 
Zerkfitting said:
There have been some instances instances where I felt a caution wasn't necessary such as when cars spin out and can continue. There have been a some debris cautions where I've wondered why - they don't always show the debris in every caution (and really don't need to). Overall I think they call cautions when they need to and they typically stop the race when clean up will take too long to let them run to the end of the race. It has been said that cautions breed cautions which is true because restarts is one of the best ways to gain a position and drivers take more risks.
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The way it looks to me is that bogus cautions don't appear in every race but some races can have a couple of them depending on how things are playing out. What Nascar doesn't seem to understand is that the first 80% of a race should be about vanquishing your opponents and the last 20% about the contenders figuring out a way to win. That last 20% of a race shouldn't be about bunching up the field, double wreck restarts and waving most of the field around to the lead lap.

When you really think about it Nascar is about second, third and fourth chances as opposed to letting a team suffer the consequences for a bad set up, a bad pit stop, speeding on pit road or any number of other things that can cause a team to lose positions and laps. I know some people don't mind the incessant charity and that is OK but my point is that it is not sporting like shooting fish in a barrel isn't.
 
Local cautions at road courses put the onus on the drivers to proceed through the flagged portion of the track in single file at a speed slow enough to ensure the safety of track workers. Should NASCAR and their liability insurors put their faith in the competitors? I wouldn't.

No-one is permitted out on pit road for any reason when it's "hot" ... not in this series nor in any other.

Imagine the hue and cry if someone were to be injured (or worse) in either scenario.
 
aunty dive said:
Local cautions at road courses put the onus on the drivers to proceed through the flagged portion of the track in single file at a speed slow enough to ensure the safety of track workers. Should NASCAR and their liability insurors put their faith in the competitors? I wouldn't.

No-one is permitted out on pit road for any reason when it's "hot" ... not in this series nor in any other.

Imagine the hue and cry if someone were to be injured (or worse) in either scenario.
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If I told you that you would have a 99.9% chance of winning every game you played in Las Vegas would you be up for it?
 
Are you suggesting that NASCAR change these rules and pay their people more?
 
aunty dive said:
No-one is permitted out on pit road for any reason when it's "hot" ... not in this series nor in any other.
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What do you call green flag pit stops?

If they are so concerned about safety that they throw a yellow for a tire getting away from the wall of the pit stall when nobody is even on pit road, maybe they should make green flag stops illegal. Nobody can be on pit road when it's hot, so how are green flag stops any different? Actually, yellow flag stops can be dangerous too, so how about they take a 5 minute break every 20 miles, freeze the field while they pit, and pit road speeds are limited to 25 mph.

Yes I realize I'm being an overreacting tool right now, but they have to draw the line somewhere before this gets out of hand. Everyone knows they look for any excuse they can to throw the yellow, justified or not. I refuse to accept a caution clock.
 
To be fair, I understand the safety concern with the loose tire, and the strict rules with pit road. It's not even about that. It's about the sum of all BS yellows
 
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