Manufacturer Loyalty

be9ak7ts16 said:
The majority of the teams have no brand loyalty either. You know Roush and the Woods are going to be in A Ford and Hendricks and are going to be in Chevies. Other than that it's a $ game.
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Loyalty is built over time. I doubt you will ever see JGR or MWR in anything other than a Toyota.
 
Revman said:
Do you think Toyota hate = loyalty to another manufacturer? I don't.
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You're certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Naysayers and excuse makers are always throwing around the Hate word to bolster a weak stance on a particular subject. I believe that It's mostly manufacturer loyalty and some distaste for a Japanese company entering Nascar.
 
Johali said:
You're certainly entitled to your opinion as I am entitled to mine. Naysayers and excuse makers are always throwing around the Hate word to bolster a weak stance on a particular subject. I believe that It's mostly manufacturer loyalty and some distaste for a Japanese company entering Nascar.
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Indeed. Just asking for your take because I respect your opinion even though I don't always agree with it. I believe that in the early days, the hate for Toyota was blind. I had a guy in a Hyundai t-shirt flip me off in Fontana five years ago because I was wearing my Toyota Racing gear. No ****. Since that time, no issues. Saw a couple of Chevy guys and a Ford guy or two when attending the races. I always make it a point to go over, shake a hand, and talk **** about our manufacturers. 100% great people who reciprocate the respect.
 
A guy flips you off and your distraught but you go talk **** about other manufacturers to others on your own accord and its all fun in the sun.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
A guy flips you off and your distraught but you go talk **** about other manufacturers to others on your own accord and its all fun in the sun.
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I have never talked **** about other manufacturers. Where the hell did you get that? In fact, I have done nothing but express respect for all manufacturer loyalty. My point was that a guy who had allegiance to even Hyundai apparently hated Toyota. Come on man....
 
Revman said:
Loyalty is built over time. I doubt you will ever see JGR or MWR in anything other than a Toyota.
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Not so sure about JGR. They've gone from Chevy to Pontiac back to Chevy then to Toyota in the time they've been in the sport. Wouldn't surprise me if they jumped ship again one day.
 
ToyYoda said:
Not so sure about JGR. They've gone from Chevy to Pontiac back to Chevy then to Toyota in the time they've been in the sport. Wouldn't surprise me if they jumped ship again one day.
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News just in JGR switching to Fiat 2016.....ok just kidding. Now nobody get butthurt
 
ToyYoda said:
Not so sure about JGR. They've gone from Chevy to Pontiac back to Chevy then to Toyota in the time they've been in the sport. Wouldn't surprise me if they jumped ship again one day.
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Don't think so.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
:eek:
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Didn't mean that to be interpreted that I was insulting people. We brag about our loyalties. That's all. That can be done without dissing another manufacturer or builder. You misunderstood me.
 
I don't care what my driver drives. It's looking more and more like Carl will wind up at Penske but it would have been nicer if both my drivers were on the same team.
 
BobbyFord said:
I don't care what my driver drives. It's looking more and more like Carl will wind up at Penske but it would have been nicer if both my drivers were on the same team.
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I have been hearing Carl to JGR all day. Who knows?
 
I never cared about that, I like Chevy,and other GM products, but when I was a kid I was a huge Jeff Burton fan(which is why it was so cool to meet him last year as I was still a fan) while he drove the 99 Exide Battery car.The way I see it, if you only pull for a driver because of what he drives you're not a fan of the driver you're a fan of the car.
 
BobbyFord said:
Maybe, but it doesn't make sense that Ford would let him go so easily.
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i can see ford not getting caught up in carl's games. they seemed to show loyalty to him the last time he was in this position as to what i read. i don't have a clue as to where he goes, if he goes, or what manufactor. but i do know to me, the way carl always says how he got into nascar, and jack taking a chance with him, doesn't really mean nothing to him. not saying if he feels he doesn't have a better chance to win a championship elsewhere he shouldn't look into it, but the last time, i thought he used it to get all the money he could, and nothing else.
 
Carl will probably have a long career in broadcasting or politics when he finishes with racing. He always says when interviewed that his car is fast when it isn't most of the time, and he is always "this close to winning" just wait until next week. I don't care where he goes because if he does move, it will be to a car and crew that will actually BE fast. Roush has been on a slow but steady decline for the last few years IMO.
 
I'm loyal to my drivers. I'm loyal to some products until they put NEW or Improved on the box which is a sure sign of a lesser product.
 
Never understood the disdain for Toyota in NASCAR. The Camry is the 9th most American made car(75% of it's parts are made in the US by US workers, it is assembled in Georgetown, KY). The Fusion doesnt crack the top 10 and the Chevrolet SS is a re badged Holden Commodore that is built in Australia and shipped to the US.

So you can not like the drivers or not like Toyota or the Camry for performance or aesthetic purposes, but being mad because Toyota is "foreign" is just kind of weird.
 
Spike said:
Never understood the disdain for Toyota in NASCAR. The Camry is the 9th most American made car(75% of it's parts are made in the US by US workers, it is assembled in Georgetown, KY). The Fusion doesnt crack the top 10 and the Chevrolet SS is a re badged Holden Commodore that is built in Australia and shipped to the US.

So you can not like the drivers or not like Toyota or the Camry for performance or aesthetic purposes, but being mad because Toyota is "foreign" is just kind of weird.
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Agreed. The more manufacturers the better. I actually want to see Honda and Nissan join.
 
Spike said:
Never understood the disdain for Toyota in NASCAR. The Camry is the 9th most American made car(75% of it's parts are made in the US by US workers, it is assembled in Georgetown, KY). The Fusion doesnt crack the top 10 and the Chevrolet SS is a re badged Holden Commodore that is built in Australia and shipped to the US.

So you can not like the drivers or not like Toyota or the Camry for performance or aesthetic purposes, but being mad because Toyota is "foreign" is just kind of weird.
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The main argument I hear is "all the money goes back overseas", which is just uneducated xenophobia and couldn't be further from the truth. Sure, some money goes back over, but I seriously doubt that the 30,000+ people Toyota employs in the US are mailing their paychecks to Japan as soon as they receive them.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Agreed. The more manufacturers the better. I actually want to see Honda and Nissan join.
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Oddly, guys, I do understand the Toyota hate, and I was worried about it from the initial announcement. I wasn't sure that they belonged here. As far as the American workers go, that's non-union work, and that's an issue for many for obvious reasons--and I understand that. However, I am very proud of how Toyota went about entering. They did research internally as well as externally in regard to how they might be received. If they thought that they would be hated forever, they would not have come. In addition, they entered and have maintained their presence in this sport with the highest regard for the good of the sport as a whole and an appreciation and respect for its history. The deal was cut with Mr. France, and that was the topper for me. If it was okay with him, it's okay with me. I respect this sport, and if it didn't want the likes of me, I would get it. I think that some decided to tolerate Toyota because they bought in when others were bailing out. Bottom line....Jack Roush was wrong.
 
ToyYoda said:
The main argument I hear is "all the money goes back overseas", which is just uneducated xenophobia and couldn't be further from the truth. Sure, some money goes back over, but I seriously doubt that the 30,000+ people Toyota employs in the US are mailing their paychecks to Japan as soon as they receive them.
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It's about the union, and I get that. Toyota pays at or above UAW wages to retain workers and prevent unionization. This is a philosophical issue that has no resolution. In the union's mind.....Small picture = Americans employed, Big picture = Workers vulnerable. Could argue it until the cows come home....
 
Revman said:
It's about the union, and I get that. Toyota pays at or above UAW wages to retain workers and prevent unionization. This is a philosophical issue that has no resolution. In the union's mind.....Small picture = Americans employed, Big picture = Workers vulnerable. Could argue it until the cows come home....
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Not to anger any pro-union guys, but the UAW is one of the things that almost sank the US auto industry. They saw to it that the workers got great benefits and pay, but it wasn't as sustainable a business model in the 2000's like it was in the 60s and 70s.
 
ToyYoda said:
Not to anger any pro-union guys, but the UAW is one of the things that almost sank the US auto industry. They saw to it that the workers got great benefits and pay, but it wasn't as sustainable a business model in the 2000's like it was in the 60s and 70s.
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Certainly, arguments fly both ways, and unionization is a topic that transcends NASCAR. Danger Island man! Don't want to touch it......but NASCAR was once perceived as the sport of the middle class dude. Unions are about protecting the middle class. Introduce a non-union manufacturer, and introduce a sport for someone else which is what pisses off many about the direction NASCAR has taken. There are many who blame Toyota for this demise in this context. I choose not to take a position on this issue really. I get the guy who takes a job with Toyota because the economy sucks, and his family needs food now. I get the guy who takes a union job because he believes in protecting the middle class, and that's the job available to him now. Will never criticize a guy feeding his family. I am proud of the NASCAR community. With a rare exception in the early days, I have never taken **** for being a Toyota fan in Fontana. That exception was escorted from the property by security--I did not report him. I urged security to allow him to stay, but they wouldn't have it.
 
Revman said:
Alright, with rumors of Biff and Carl heading to Toyota, I am wondering how many fans they might lose by switching manufacturers. Who is manufacturer loyal? Who would dump their driver if he signed to drive something else?
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I think that today's fans root more for favorite drivers than for favorite brands. The cars have looked cookie-cutter for about twenty years now, and have so little in common with their street counterpoints that it's hard for fans to identify with them. The COT standardized the "look" with only different decals. You can't buy a rear wheel drive Camry or Fusion, or 2-door versions of any of them. Also, since NASCAR has been trying to cater to younger fans at the expense of alienating older fans, they are getting more people who do not care as much about cars. The days of "win on Sunday, sell on Monday" have mostly passed. The drivers, on the other hand, still have some individuality and attraction - although NASCAR has managed to squelch a lot of that too. Most of the water cooler talk I hear focuses upon drivers rather than car brands.

The teams have never really exhibited much brand loyalty beyond who gives them parts or money, even in the old days. Remember Richard Petty switching from Plymouth to Ford (and back), then to Pontiac? How about Junior Johnson switching from Ford to Chevrolet? During the 1980s, after NASCAR allowed interchanging corporate engines / bodies, several General Motors teams had Chevys or Pontiacs for small tracks and Buicks or Oldsmobiles for big tracks - all with Chevy engines.

Like some of the previous posters, I lost interest in brand loyalty when Pontiac pulled out, and especially after the COT. Although I favor a few drivers slightly more than others, it’s been a long time since I’ve been able to like a specific driver enough to make him (or her) my favorite. So I’m not manufacturer loyal anymore, and won’t dump a driver if he (or she) switched brands. But I also am one of those old fans who has lost a lot of interest in NASCAR anyway.
 
I grew up in a GM family and we've always bought GM and had great luck with their cars. Still GM loyal to this day. I have no problem with other manufacturers whether they're domestic/import, there's a TON of various cars/brands I would love to have, but GM is all I've ever owned. But when I was a kid and started watching Nascar (early 90s) I liked Ernie Irvan, and when he jumped from the Morgan/McClure Chevy to the Yates Ford in 1994, I picked a new driver. That ended up being Jeff Gordon.

Now that I'm older, there's no way in hell I would stop being a Gordon fan if he switched manufacturers. Lucky for me it's not something I even have to think about, seeing as how he's Hendrick/Chevy for life. But once he retires and I settle on a new favorite driver, the manufacturer he drives for won't matter to me.
 
About hating foreign car brands, I've seen it from "Made In The USA" loyalists who don't understand (or don't care to understand) that many foreign brands now have models manufactured here in the U.S., and that the U.S. brands have made cars in Canada and Mexico (for sale here) for decades, and that U.S. brands have many parts that are made in foreign countries. You can't really claim that any car manufacturer is purely American anymore. But why not race against them? If U.S. brands are superior then prove it on the track.

About Unions, been there done that. They can be good and bad. They can counter unfair management practices, but they can also get too powerful and hurt business. Just like executive management in many major corporations, union officials get corrupt. How do you keep either honest? History shows it's 'bout impossible.
 
My favorite driver drives a Chevy but I own a Ford. My next car will probably be a Kia or Hyundai. Can't beat the 10 year 100,000 mile warranty.
 
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