Martin not pleased with possible injury rules change

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Viewpoints will undoubtedly vary and NASCAR has yet to announce exactly how nest years rules will read if changes are made.

Martin dreads expected rule change

10-5-02

By DUSTIN LONG, Staff Writer
News & Record



TALLADEGA, Ala. -- On one of NASCAR Winston Cup's most tense weekends, Mark Martin sat on the back step of his hauler and fretted more about Dale Earnhardt Jr.'s comments about driving hurt than the inevitable multi-car crash at Talladega Superspeedway.

Martin, the No. 2 man in one of the closest points races in series history, said Friday morning that he's sure NASCAR officials will give doctors more power next season in determining when a driver can return from an injury. He hates that.

"I don't want to be told I can't race when I can," Martin says.

He does not speak as an overeager rookie who thinks he's invincible to injury. The 43-year-old Martin, who trails rookie Jimmie Johnson by 11 points in the season standings, has been hurt before and accepts the risks.

He blames the expected policy change on Earnhardt Jr., who recently said that he raced this season while suffering the effects of what he thought was a concussion. NASCAR altered its guidelines last weekend on injured drivers after Earnhardt Jr.'s revelation. Now, anytime a doctor at the track recommends further treatment, drivers must follow that or they won't be allowed to compete until they do so.

Martin won't say what changes he expects -- and a NASCAR official says only that the issue is being examined -- but predicts it will be more difficult to race with an injury next season. If so, Martin says the points system needs to be changed so an overly cautious doctor doesn't force a title contender to sit out longer than necessary.

Martin says under the new policy he anticipates, he would have been forced to miss the July Daytona race two years ago after he broke his left wrist, a rib and his knee. He raced the next night. Sunday's race will be his 467th consecutive start, dating back to 1987. He's unhappy because he says he can best decide if he's able to race.

"It's my life," says Martin, who raced four weeks after breaking his left leg, right ankle and four bones in his left foot in a 1980 crash. "I choose what I do. I've never had a head injury but I have said that when I'm dizzy, the last place I want to be is in a racecar.

"I know that the drivers that have driven with (head injuries) didn't scare me to death or scare me any worse than rookie drivers or guys who didn't necessarily have the best peripheral vision or guys who didn't have tremendous respect for the speed we're going."

Kyle Petty says that NASCAR should be more involved on when drivers compete after being injured.

"As technology changes and things change, the sport has to advance," he said. "It should be in the doctor's hands. It shouldn't be in my hands. It's not our job to say, 'Oh yeah, man, I'm physically fit, I'm ready to go.'

"How many times do you think a racecar driver gets up and thinks he can go but then once he's out there, he can't. That happens. These guys won't admit it. I won't admit it. There's probably been times you've been out there and you're thinking, 'I should have never started this.'"

Kevin Triplett, NASCAR's managing director of business operations, says that while series officials are looking into various policies, there is no talk of hiring doctors or creating a group that can clear a driver to return from an injury.

Injured drivers only have to get medical clearance from any doctor to return. Once cleared, drivers are not likely to take themselves out. Sterling Marlin said he only went for an MRI exam the day after his Kansas crash last week because the team's trainer nagged him to do so. The trainer had advised Marlin to get an MRI after Marlin crashed at Richmond last month but Marlin was too busy to do it that week.

Marlin, who led the points most of the year, said he felt little pain after the Kansas crash and was surprised that he had fractured a vertebra, an injury that will force him to miss the rest of the season.

Marlin's situation leads to questions about the points system. Currently, a driver must start and run at least one lap to earn the points. If not, the driver gets no points. Some say that should change, especially if NASCAR toughens its rules on injuries next season.

"I've been a supporter of the points system in its present form all through the years," said Martin, who has finished second three times. "If doctors are going to start making decisions on whether we drive these cars, then I'm not a supporter of the points system in its current form."
 
I have to disagree with Mark on this one. If you're not fit you shouldn't be on the track. It's a matter of everyone's safety. It's going to be interesting to see how this is implemented.
 
Agreed, if you medically aren't able to race, stay out of the frickin' car
 
I feel the same way. Your at Daytona or Daga. At 185 mph do you want some in frount of or running beside that is medically not fit to be in the car.
 
I love Mark, but I think he's being a bit hypocritical. He blames Dale Jr. for a rule that could ostensibly take him out of a points race the next time he's injured, saying he knows better than most doctors whether or not he's physically capable of racing a car. Isn't that basically the same logic that's getting Dale Jr. all this negative attention? Is he saying that Dale should never have opened his mouth about this? I'm confused...
 
Sounds like Mark to me. Always been a whiner.77774444444444444444ppp7]]]77 b
 
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Sorry, my 2 year old son decided to weigh in on the matter!!!


Mark jusr rubs me the wrong way personally. I know he's a good guy, but to me he constantly whines and I get tired of him. JMO. Besides it sounds like he making an excuse for the next time he's 2nd 3rd or 4th in points :)
 
I am a diehard fan of Mark,But I will have to side with you folks on this one about an injured driver being allowed on the track.It is dangerous to say the least.I think he is right about points structure though,and some changes should be made when Doctors have a right to pull drivers from cars.Should be interesting to see what is mandated next year.I also think any veteran is going to disagree in the same manner Mark did.Its just old school driving practice of old timers.:)
 
I've seen these guys drive with broken bones, the flu,etc. didn't Rudd have his eyes taped open once many years ago after a bad wreck just so he could race.
But head injurys are some thing not to mess with.
 
I think you people just dont understand Mark, he looks at things at a different way than other people do.What he was saying was in my opionion was that he doesnt he doesnt want some doctor costing him a championship or a win or something.
On the Dale Jr. thing notice they never had quotes on what Mark said on that.maybe the writer didnt understand what Mark was saying.But I know many drivers have said that Dale Jr should have kept his mouth shut.Instead of using it as an excuse on how bad he has run this season.
 
I am agreeing with the majority of you ....my question is: when someone (like Marlin) has a bad wreck (or just hits the wall harder then a tap) why doesn't the infield care center automaticly send him to a hospital? To me Marlin should have had a neck brace put on and driven to the hospital for a cat scan just "in case".
Maybe I'm all wrong about this..........~sigh~
 
Originally posted by lovNdale
I am agreeing with  the majority of you ....my question is: when someone (like Marlin) has  a bad wreck (or just hits the wall harder then a tap) why doesn't the infield care center automaticly send him to a hospital? To me Marlin should have had a neck brace put on and driven to the hospital for a cat scan just "in case".
Maybe I'm all wrong about this..........~sigh~
Click to expand...

ANY crash of that magnitude should mean an automatic trip to the hospital!

Broken wrist, hand, foot, shoulder etc.is one thing, but possible head or neck injuries need immediate attention.

Jr surprised me when he opened his mouth about the concussion, especially after he had ragged on Steve so bad about not doing the job after coming back.

All these drivers believe they can race hurt or sick, and many do. BUT a lot of that is ego and the old macho "I'm a MAN".
 
I think the point Martin is making is that pain is one thing, dizziness due to a head injury is another. Personnaly, I think Martin is one of the most miserable people on the planet. If he can work through pain, good for him. We do not live in a "virtual world". We live in a real world where pain is present many times of our lives. Since when is that supposed to disqualify "us" from doing our jobs? I feel sorry for anyone that has lived such a god awfully protected life that they think living through pain disqualifies a race driver from doing his/her job. ...ok, I just walked away for a few moments to cool down, but the fact remains; pain does not disqualify anybody from doing anything. Head injuries and related symptoms can.

I do believe that is what Martin was expressing. God forbid some Doctor tell me I hurt too much to do what I need to do.

Windsor
 
Well put Windsor. I'm siding with Mark on this one. But then I'm seldom politically correct. Take if for what's it's worth. But I bet it pisses people off next year when their favorite is sidelined by some doctor........"to be on the save side" (to avoid any possible malpractice suite). Jr should have kept his mouth shut on this one. If a driver's judgement cannot be trusted then yank his license to drive in any race......otherwise, leave him alone.
 
I had to watch one of my fav drivers sit out the last race of the season when he was 3rd in the closest points race in IRL history. I gotta tell ya, it SUCKED. However, I'm comforted in the fact that he'll not only be racing next yr, but that he'll be healthy and in one pc. I'd much rather have my fav driver around for many seasons as opposed to having him possibly win a championship and then never race again.

Just my .02
 
Thanks Wrangler. PenskeGirl, you make a good point too. But the issue is this: pain vs life threatening injury. That's Martin's point and mine.

It does go a little deeper in this era of "mis"-managed health care. The first SOB Doctor that puts a driver down because of a pain issue better be prepared follow the exact same guidelines when it's time to treat a patient off the street...uh, you don't think the "mis"-managed-care insurance companies might influence the doctor otherwise do you?

I'm sorry, I don't mean to take this out on you, but the set of rules need to be consistent for all...and yes, everyday folks do things just as dangerous as driving a Stock Car. The rules have got to be the same.

Windsor
 
In a different place I found some further quotes from Mark which may help clarify his position. More to the slant that Windsor picked up on.

DO YOU THINK DRIVERS HAVE OPTIONS NOW FROM A HEALTH STANDPOINT? THERE'S SO MUCH PRESSURE TO GET IN THE CAR THAT YOU REALLY DON'T HAVE A CHOICE NOT TO MAKE YOUR OWN DECISION TO STAY OUT? "That's a good point. The option you have is to say, 'No, I'm not gonna drive it,' or suck it up, and everyone sucks it up. This is a manly man sport. You suck it up. But, the thing is, that covers everything but a head injury. You suck it up when your father dies, when your uncle dies. It doesn't matter who dies or what happens, but a head injury is different. I really don't think you need someone to tell you that you have a head injury, and you shouldn't be driving. I would assume that you would know that yourself. Obviously, if you didn't and there was a problem, there should be some kind of intervention. That's my opinion and that's not gonna fly because that's the honor system. That means that we are the judges and that's not the future. Someone else is gonna decide that and there are all kinds of gray areas there. Who gets to race with a fractured wrist? What's the difference between a fractured finger and a fractured wrist? What's the cutoff point? How far does it go? Or does it get contained to only head injuries, and what is a head injury? I've seen guys get knocked out before and were plenty capable of driving the race car again in a day or two. So, if you get knocked out in an accident and you have an automatic seven-day policy, I don't like that because in seven days you may miss the most important day of your life when you were fine in one day. I don't know that. The idea of evaluating people is a gray area too because if you're really good at something in this evaluation and you drop down to average, does that mean you shouldn't get to drive? I don't know."
 
Comes down to driver judgement. Believe it not, these guys are not stupid. I know in this day and age, doctors are considered God.........so whatever the doctor says will stand. Going to be a problem. Being a race car driver is not the safest occupation in this world and all those drivers know that......if their judgement is overruled by a doctor who is quite natually going to go for "safest opinion" then there is going to be a lot unhappy drivers and fans. Head injuries have been a potential injury in stock car racing since the very first race ever........why are people considering nullifying all the judgements made by the people most effected by an injury? Sad day when some someone who has no stake in the sport says who drives and who doesn't. Some of us, in our line of work, have to make judgements as to whether we are capable of doing our job in a safe way........some day a doctor will tell me to go home (no pay) because he thinks I can't do my job safely? Medicine is not an exact science......far from it.
 
I agree with mark on this Cause you could be seriously hurt like Sterling Marlins case and not nkow it and end up being in a wreck and something reall bad could happenI am a Jr Firefighter and I have seen where people got out of a wreck and did not think they were hurt and They had enternal bleeding, fractured skulls, etc. You can't always tell if you are well or not.
 
There is a difference between being in pain and being incapable of performing. That is all I think Mark is trying to point out. Maybe this is one area where either NASCAR needs to not make a rule, or the rule needs to be somewhat fluid.

One other thing. Mark is probably the most physically fit driver out there. That surely qualifies his opinion to some degree.

There can be no question that head injuries should preclude a driver from getting in a car. Period. Beyond that, I feel it's each driver's call.
 
"There is a difference between being in pain and being incapable of performing"

That was exactly what I was going to post. If someone is having pain in their wrist because of a sprain or something like that, then yes, by all means the driver should be allowed to make his own choice. I think the doc's should have final say when it come to head or back injuries. One can be fatal while the other can paralyze you. Some of these guys don't even THINK about those possibilities, they just think RACE. Even though they're adults, they don't always think of their own well being. If Mark or anyone else has a pain that they know isn't life threatening, then DON'T tell anyone you've got the pain, deal with it and drive.
 
I think it should be a team not a driver. If a crew cheif is hurt that doesnt kill the seasons chances but yet if the driver gets hurt it does. nascar should be more of a teams sport.
 
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