Martin's Springs... naughty naughty

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"Afterward, Martin's No. 6 Ford failed inspection because the left-front springs did not meet the minimum number of coils. NASCAR will punish the team next week, and the standard penalty this season has been a deduction of 25 championship points."

http://espn.go.com/rpm/wc/2002/1103/1455174.html
 
how stupid can they get?

You would think team Roush would learn from others & not go there in the position there in.
 
Originally posted by eeff
how stupid can they get?
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With a championship on the line, evidently pretty stupid!!:(


Even with a 25 point reduction, it's still a close race for the Cup!!:)
 
the points just went from -87 to -112................ouch!
 
the spring was an eighth of a coil short.


YIKES

there's that eighth again
 
Originally posted by nascarwoman
the spring must have settled.
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It settled and lost one or more of the coils in the process? Lot of settling, huh?:)
 
i thought he got penalized for not meeting the proper amount of coils................would his springs "settling" cause that?????????
 
No. This has nothing to do with "settling".

"NASCAR rules state that springs must have four-and-a-half coils in each spring. Martin's car had a spring that was found to have one-eighth of a coil less."

Why he was passed in the pre-race inspection is beyond me. Regardless, this has nothing to do with anything that occured during the race. I don't think they had time to cut part of the spring off during a pitstop. I SUPPOSE the spring could have broken off during the race. Highly doubtful though.
 
I can't see this being a points deduction. If so, may be 5 or 10 points seems fair.
 
DONT FEAR I AM HERE....
Okay I will tell you people the point reduction should not be more or = to 25 points. The other 2 guys that had this problem seriously cheated as there springs looked like this...

---this means coil


marks
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Wards and Greens
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If the coils are unevenly spaced you are picking up a pretty serious advantage.Marks spring being an 8th inch too low was more than likely the cause of too soft of a spring(They run them soft to make it better on the long run) collapsing and causing it to be low on the bumpy track.No mark did not recieve an advantage as an eigth freaking inch in the spring does not mean DIDDLY SQUAT!!! THIS SHOULD BE A FINE AND MAYBE A SMALL LOSS OF POINTS but no 25 point reduction.

I hope I cleared things up as from my understanding this is not like any other spring problem.I say it's a conspiracy if you ask me.NASCAR proababley looked at Marks car harder than anyone elses.It's a shame that NASCAR has to be like they are...
 
I drew a 5 1/2 in circle which is the diameter of the front springs . the I divided it up into eighth's!

that spring was short by 2 1/8 of an inch of material.

wow that's an exspensive mistake to make.

I wonder how much softer it made the spring?
 
It's a conspiracy? NASCAR wants Tony to win? They don't like Mark? Come on danjay, it's not a conspiracy.......they are just enforcing rules that every team in the Winston Cup pushes to the limit.
 
Originally posted by DE Wrangler 2
It's a conspiracy?  NASCAR wants Tony to win?  They don't like Mark?  Come on danjay, it's not a conspiracy.......they are just enforcing rules that every team in the Winston Cup pushes to the limit.
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And a points deduction seems to be pretty standard these days for teams who push that envelope.

Height, jackbolts, etc. all are getting 25 point deductions.
 
I say that if they pass PRE-RACE inspection, dont bother with post race... The reason some of that stuff is messed up, or spaced unevenly is because of race wear..... but it dont matter what I say, thats up to NASCAR..lol.
 
It was probably done on purpose. Mark and the boys obviously had to do some stuff, maybe cheating, to get to the front. Stewart doesn't have many bad days and when he does, they need to do good. Martin hasn't been doing well and they were desperate to do some catching up. To bad it cost them.
 
Speed Channel says Mark's spring was 1/4 coil too tall.....

Rules say 4 & 1/2 coils max, his was 4 & 3/4.......
 
Originally posted by goharvick
I say that if they pass PRE-RACE inspection, dont bother with post race... The reason some of that stuff is messed up, or spaced unevenly is because of race wear..... but it dont matter what I say, thats up to NASCAR..lol.
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I don't believe they tear a car down during pre-race like they do post-race. Pre-race is not as thorough as post-race. Cheating would be rampant without post-race. Forgo the pre-race inspection, but you can't forgo the post-race. Give a little thought to what you are saying.:) Would any team stand for someone ordering a complete tear down of a car they spent a week putting together for a race hours BEFORE they are scheduled to race that car? I think not! Pre-race is just a general going over to make sure the car is not obviously out of line with the established rules......also to make sure it's safe to race. The inspection that counts is the post-race.......to see if anyone cheated!
 
FINE HIM!!! I say its a NAscar conspiracy if they don't. They want Mark to win!!!

Just off setting Dan Jay :)
 
:D Didn't know this tread was here when I posted mine Sorry. I think they will give crew cheif heafty fine and not touch Martin's points. It wont be fair but that is what I think.
 
Say hello to your new Winston Cup champion, Tony Stewart.
 
I would hope that Nascar would be consistent, which it is not always known for, fine them and take away 25 owner and driver points. However since Mark is in the championship race and it is a close one, Nascar may feel that it would be more fun, for them, and get them more ratings if Mark keeps his close margin to Tony. I would think they would just fine them. But who knows with Nascar. It really doesn't matter what I think.
 
Martin could offer Nascar some free Viagra samples to try and make them "forget" about the infraction.

Or he could do what everyone else does, just wave some money in front of NASCAR and they are bound to bite.
 
on the TR tread David Poole say crew cheif will be fined 27k but mark got off scott free!

uh oh

I don't like those point deductions anyway!

But it's not too constistant
 
"We have an issue with the No. 6 Ford of Mark Martin," said Danielle Frye, spokesperson for NASCAR. "The left front spring did not meet the minimum number of coils. As with all issues we have after a race, we will deal with it on Monday."
 
If NASCAR wasn't going to penalize Martin, they would not have bothered making the infraction public.

I expect a fine and 25 points.
 
Well If he wins the championship,I don't want to hear someone say they gave it to him.Take the punisment,and get on with the show.Let the chips fall where they may.;)
 
This thread has gotten long but I don't want to start another.

First off. The issue was brought up as to why the unapproved was not found in prerace inspection. During the ocurse of a race weekend the teams will change springs many many times. Springs are checked on three occasions by NASCAR offcials.

1 - During initial inspection prior to the first practice session.

2 - During inspection following qualifying

3 - In post race inspection

Second - I do not believe that the person writing on the TR forum as David Poole is who he claims to be. The "handle" does not jive with my recollection of the way David was registered on that forum.

Third - As of last night John Darby was quoted as saying no dtermination of penalty had been reached. His latest quote (at least that I could find)

While John Darby, Cup series director, wouldn't say what Martin's penalty might be, he added, "we would be try to be as consistent as we can and go forward as we have in past violations. Ultimately, [penalizing points] would be what happens. I just hate deciding whether we're going to or not before we actually sit down and do this."

He also said that the points race would not be a factor in determining whether to deduct points.

"The fact that we're two races away from completing the season may make it a little more visible, but in any one of our 36 races if a competitor loses a point, at the end of the year his total is still going to be one point less than it would have been," Darby said.
 
Man...if Mark loses this twice under the same "circumstances" it will be too much...:(
 
Martin penalized 25 points for coil infraction
By Dave Rodman, Turner Sports Interactive November 4, 2002
5:05 PM EST (2205 GMT)

DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- For the second time in his career, a NASCAR Winston Cup point penalty will affect Mark Martin's hopes for a championship.

On Monday, NASCAR officials announced that Martin and his car owner Jack Roush were each docked 25 points in the Winston Cup driver and owner standings, respectively; and that crew chief Ben Leslie had been fined $5,000 for an unapproved left front spring that was found in Martin's No. 6 Viagra Ford following Sunday's Pop Secret 400 at North Carolina Speedway in Rockingham.

The infraction was discovered in post-race inspection and involved Section 12-4-Q in the NASCAR Winston Cup rule book: "Any determination by NASCAR officials that parts and/or equipment used in the event do not conform to NASCAR rules."

It is the third time Leslie has been fined this season and the second major penalty. Leslie was fined $50,000 after Martin's winning car was too low in post-race inspection following the Coca-Cola Racing Family 600. He was hit with a $1,000 fine for an unapproved window strap at Talladega in October.

NASCAR began issuing point penalties in July when it decided monetary fines were not making enough of an impact on teams.

Martin was fined 46 driver points in 1990 for an illegal carburetor spacer on his Roush Racing Ford that was discovered after the spring race at Richmond International Raceway. Martin lost the Winston Cup championship that year to Dale Earnhardt by 26 points.

Martin is now 112 points behind championship leader Tony Stewart, with two races remaining this season: This weekend at Phoenix International Raceway and Nov. 17 at Homestead-Miami Speedway.
 
David Poole is David Poole at TR. We exchanged E-mails about another subject last year and I assure you David IS David.

There may be an imposter but when you see David with his name spelled right at TR, on Sat night or early Sun morn, that is the real deal.
 
Ok, that's twice he's been deducted points for rules infractions when he was about to win a Cup.

If Mark wasn't such a nice guy, I would wonder about this...
 
Just wondering.... Was the spring too short?, too tall?, Not enough coils?, Too many coils?, wrong diameter? wrong size wire???

Was the truth ever determined?
 
Originally posted by gmcbreadtrk
Just wondering.... Was the spring too short?, too tall?, Not enough coils?, Too many coils?, wrong diameter? wrong size wire???

Was the truth ever determined?
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All I know is they found a slinky box in Bens trashcan.:p
 
Every report I've seen indcates the number of coils was fewer than required.

NASCAR mandates that the springs have 4 1/2 coils. Marks spring had 4 3/8 coils. That would not inherently affect any other factor of the spring such as height or rate, although it could.

Just estimating, I think that would make the length of the wire about 2 inches short. Not the height of the spring, the length of the wire used to manufacture the spring.
 
That is what I thought, but I've seen several conflicting reports.

I just don't get what the heck they were thinking.
 
That was pure foolishness on the part of Leslie, if that was a purchased part it should have been checked over prior to installation. If it was fabricated there at the shop, there should be one less fabricator working for Roush today. Leslie deserves a fine and Roush deserves points penalty (for not having some checks and balances in place). Mark pays the biggest price. Not fair but "thems the rules"!

Kel
 
Originally posted by gmcbreadtrk
That is what I thought, but I've seen several conflicting reports.  

I just don't get what the heck they were thinking.
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I saw several other tales too, but most said too few coils and I saw a quote from Darby that said that as well. Took Darby as most likely to know.

Can't imagine what they were thinking. Actually should say I don't think they were thinking. Best guess on my part is the the QC folks for the spring manufacturer goofed and then the QC folks at Roush just didn't catch it either.

There is a remote possibility that the end of the spring may broken off, but that is real far fetched.

I do not believe there was any performance enhancement in the spring. No way would Jack and the team gamble on that at this point in the season.
 
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