Maybe the problem isn't the car...

SpeedPagan

SpeedPagan

The iRacing Guru
Joined
Sep 29, 2009
Messages
19,354
Points
1,033
So, year after year, NASCAR tries different rule packages to try to make the racing more competitive on the 1.5 mile tri-ovals. Which is probably the only place where being competitive is a problem for NASCAR. Which honestly has led me to believe that the car isn't the problem, it's the 1.5 mile tracks. Now you go to a short oval like Bristol and Martinsville and the on track performance is great! You get side by side action, you get a battle for the lead, you get the rough-ups of your typical short track races.

It make sense, NASCAR and stock car racing in general come from the short tracks of the Southeast. The cars are trying to race at tracks that are meant for series like IndyCar, where the tremendous amount of down force makes them perfect for the high speed 1.5 mile oval. However, the stock car isn't meant for this kind of racing.

I mean think about it, from street stock up to the Trucks or K&N Series, everyone races at short tracks. The local short track, the regional touring series, it's all short tracks! Anyways, I think we all know where I'm ending this at. It doesn't have to be a dramatic change, but maybe it's time for NASCAR to start slowly introducing more short tracks to replace the 1.5 mile ovals, to put these stock cars back into their natural environment.
 
SpeedPagan said:
So, year after year, NASCAR tries different rule packages to try to make the racing more competitive on the 1.5 mile tri-ovals. Which is probably the only place where being competitive is a problem for NASCAR. Which honestly has led me to believe that the car isn't the problem, it's the 1.5 mile tracks. Now you go to a short oval like Bristol and Martinsville and the on track performance is great! You get side by side action, you get a battle for the lead, you get the rough-ups of your typical short track races.

It make sense, NASCAR and stock car racing in general come from the short tracks of the Southeast. The cars are trying to race at tracks that are meant for series like IndyCar, where the tremendous amount of down force makes them perfect for the high speed 1.5 mile oval. However, the stock car isn't meant for this kind of racing.

I mean think about it, from street stock up to the Trucks or K&N Series, everyone races at short tracks. The local short track, the regional touring series, it's all short tracks! Anyways, I think we all know where I'm ending this at. It doesn't have to be a dramatic change, but maybe it's time for NASCAR to start slowly introducing more short tracks to replace the 1.5 mile ovals, to put these stock cars back into their natural environment.
Click to expand...



Sounds good to me, I seldom complain after watching a road course or short track, the mile and a halfs can go IMO
 
here ya go plenty of short tracks for ya.
2015 NBC Sports NASCAR Touring Series
Television Schedule

Thurs., Feb. 19 – K&N East at New Smyrna, NBCSN, 10:30 p.m. ET
Fri., Apr. 3 – K&N West at Kern County, NBCSN, 6:30 p.m. ET
Tues., Apr. 7 – K&N East at Greenville Pickens, 6:30 p.m. ET
Sat., Apr. 16 – K&N West at Irwindale, NBCSN, Time TBD
Sun., Apr. 17 – Whelen Modifieds at Thompson, NBCSN, Time TBD
Thurs., Apr. 23 – K&N East at Bristol, NBCSN, Time TBD
Thurs., May 7 – K&N West at Tucson, NBCSN, Time TBD
Thurs., May 21 – K&N East/West at Iowa, NBCSN, Time TBD
Thurs., June 4 – K&N East at Bowman-Gray, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET; K&N West at Shasta, 8 p.m. ET
Thurs., June 18 – Whelen Modifieds at Thompson, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET
Thurs., June 25 – K&N East at Langley, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET
Thurs., July 2 – K&N West at Sonoma, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET; Whelen Modifieds at Riverhead, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Fri., July 10 – K&N East at Columbus, NBCSN, 2:30 p.m. ET
Thurs., July 16 – K&N West at Stateline, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET
Thurs., July 23 – Whelen Modified All-Star at New Hampshire, NBCSN, 4 p.m. ET; Whelen Modifieds at New Hampshire, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET; K&N East at New Hampshire, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET.
Thurs., July 30 – Whelen Modifieds at Monadnock, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Aug. 6 – K&N East/West at Iowa, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Fri., Aug. 7 – Whelen Southern Modifieds at Bowman-Gray, NBCSN, 2:30 p.m. ET
Thurs., Aug. 13 – K&N East at Watkins Glen, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Aug. 20 – K&N East at Motordrome, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Fri., Aug. 21 – K&N West at Evergreen, NBCSN, 2:30 p.m. ET
Thurs., Aug. 27 – K&N West at Colorado, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Fri., Aug. 28 – Modifieds/Southern Modifieds at Bristol, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Sept. 3 – K&N East at Virginia, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Sept. 10 – K&N West at Meridian, NBCSN, 7:30 p.m. ET
Fri., Sept. 11 – Whelen Southern Modifieds at Langley, NBCSN, 2:30 p.m. ET
Wed., Sept. 16 – K&N East at Richmond, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Sept. 24 – Whelen Southern Modifieds at South Boston, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Oct. 1 – Whelen Modifieds at New Hampshire, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Tues., Oct. 6 – K&N East at Dover, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Sat., Oct. 10 – Whelen Modifieds at Stafford, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Oct. 15 – Whelen Southern Modifieds at Charlotte, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Oct. 22 – K&N West at All American, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET; Whelen Modifieds at Thompson, NBCSN, 8 p.m. ET
Thurs., Nov. 19 – K&N West at Phoenix, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
 
StandOnIt said:
here ya go plenty of short tracks for ya.
2015 NBC Sports NASCAR Touring Series
Television Schedule

Thurs., Feb. 19 – K&N East at New Smyrna, NBCSN, 10:30 p.m. ET
Fri., Apr. 3 – K&N West at Kern County, NBCSN, 6:30 p.m. ET
Tues., Apr. 7 – K&N East at Greenville Pickens, 6:30 p.m. ET
Sat., Apr. 16 – K&N West at Irwindale, NBCSN, Time TBD
Sun., Apr. 17 – Whelen Modifieds at Thompson, NBCSN, Time TBD
Thurs., Apr. 23 – K&N East at Bristol, NBCSN, Time TBD
Thurs., May 7 – K&N West at Tucson, NBCSN, Time TBD
Thurs., May 21 – K&N East/West at Iowa, NBCSN, Time TBD
Thurs., June 4 – K&N East at Bowman-Gray, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET; K&N West at Shasta, 8 p.m. ET
Thurs., June 18 – Whelen Modifieds at Thompson, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET
Thurs., June 25 – K&N East at Langley, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET
Thurs., July 2 – K&N West at Sonoma, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET; Whelen Modifieds at Riverhead, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Fri., July 10 – K&N East at Columbus, NBCSN, 2:30 p.m. ET
Thurs., July 16 – K&N West at Stateline, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET
Thurs., July 23 – Whelen Modified All-Star at New Hampshire, NBCSN, 4 p.m. ET; Whelen Modifieds at New Hampshire, NBCSN, 6 p.m. ET; K&N East at New Hampshire, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET.
Thurs., July 30 – Whelen Modifieds at Monadnock, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Aug. 6 – K&N East/West at Iowa, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Fri., Aug. 7 – Whelen Southern Modifieds at Bowman-Gray, NBCSN, 2:30 p.m. ET
Thurs., Aug. 13 – K&N East at Watkins Glen, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Aug. 20 – K&N East at Motordrome, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Fri., Aug. 21 – K&N West at Evergreen, NBCSN, 2:30 p.m. ET
Thurs., Aug. 27 – K&N West at Colorado, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Fri., Aug. 28 – Modifieds/Southern Modifieds at Bristol, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Sept. 3 – K&N East at Virginia, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Sept. 10 – K&N West at Meridian, NBCSN, 7:30 p.m. ET
Fri., Sept. 11 – Whelen Southern Modifieds at Langley, NBCSN, 2:30 p.m. ET
Wed., Sept. 16 – K&N East at Richmond, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Sept. 24 – Whelen Southern Modifieds at South Boston, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Oct. 1 – Whelen Modifieds at New Hampshire, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Tues., Oct. 6 – K&N East at Dover, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Sat., Oct. 10 – Whelen Modifieds at Stafford, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Oct. 15 – Whelen Southern Modifieds at Charlotte, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Thurs., Oct. 22 – K&N West at All American, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET; Whelen Modifieds at Thompson, NBCSN, 8 p.m. ET
Thurs., Nov. 19 – K&N West at Phoenix, NBCSN, 7 p.m. ET
Click to expand...

Thanks, but my main point is...maybe these cars simply weren't meant for 1.5 ovals, and no tinkering of the rules package is going to change that.
 
Not that I don't want more short tracks on the schedule but places like Texas and Charlotte have had and are still capable of having entertaining races; plenty of great races happened on the intermediate tracks during the great period from '01-'05 or so. If you put together a good car package you can have good races almost anywhere. Same thing happened to IndyCar; the IR-01, IR-02, IR-03, IR-05 produced pack racing bore fests on most of the ovals and then the DW12 came along and drastically changed the style of racing on those very tracks.

I think NASCAR got carried away with the overengineering over the last few years, way too much hoopla over meaningless track record speeds and whatnot. I think the movement to take away downforce and HP this year and next shows they realized that was a mistake (as the COT also was in several ways), although I still don't agree with the method of reducing HP.
 
So if we are saying 1.5 suck.. how come guys were able to drive Atlanta, Charlotte, Texas, to name a few, in huge packs with tons of passing and excitement from the early '70s to the mid '90s?
 
SpeedPagan said:
So, year after year, NASCAR tries different rule packages to try to make the racing more competitive on the 1.5 mile tri-ovals. Which is probably the only place where being competitive is a problem for NASCAR. Which honestly has led me to believe that the car isn't the problem, it's the 1.5 mile tracks. Now you go to a short oval like Bristol and Martinsville and the on track performance is great! You get side by side action, you get a battle for the lead, you get the rough-ups of your typical short track races.
.
Click to expand...

I saw all of those things today . Side by side battles for position all through the field . Lots of lead changes among several cars . Your typical rough- ups
,even three and four wide racing . Even saw Jeff Gordon coming up through the field . I guess you needed more cautions and GWC 's . Personally I don't need them to enjoy the race .
 
frow78 said:
So if we are saying 1.5 suck.. how come guys were able to drive Atlanta, Charlotte, Texas, to name a few, in huge packs with tons of passing and excitement from the early '70s to the mid '90s?
Click to expand...

Because... (in order of importance)

1. Less downforce
2. Tires that wouldn't last as long
3. More abrasive pavement
 
frow78 said:
So if we are saying 1.5 suck.. how come guys were able to drive Atlanta, Charlotte, Texas, to name a few, in huge packs with tons of passing and excitement from the early '70s to the mid '90s?
Click to expand...

For many years Charlotte was the only 1.5 mile quad oval , probably for 30 plus years. The 600 is also unique in its own right and part of the great memorial weekend tradition. 20 years ago Atlanta was a true oval, with short straights it was 2/3rds cornering and 1/3 straights. The saturation of 1.5 mile quad ovals only started
happening over the last 20years.

Short tracks were more abundant in the modern era. Martinsville the classic paperclip, and Bristol with its banking, Richmond was unique even with its 5/8 mile configuration. Wilkesboro had straights that were uphill and downhill, and Nashville had moderately to high banks.

Rockingham the tri oval and Darlingtons egg shape were unique tire eaters that kept things more interesting with two events each.. The market or locations are more diverse now and that is truly great, but the track layouts or creativity has become more inbred then ever.

That's why France keeps trying to find the magic band aids.
 
SpeedPagan said:
Thanks, but my main point is...maybe these cars simply weren't meant for 1.5 ovals, and no tinkering of the rules package is going to change that.
Click to expand...

nope your main point was:
"I think we all know where I'm ending this at. It doesn't have to be a dramatic change, but maybe it's time for NASCAR to start slowly introducing more short tracks to replace the 1.5 mile ovals, to put these stock cars back into their natural environment."

and I showed you a NASCAR schedule for ample short track racing. But for whatever reason you want to take expensive CUP cars that aren't designed for short tracks, instead of watching a whole list of struggling small tracks (that need $$$ support) running cars designed for short track racing.

Here is Chase Elliott in a K&N short track car..hardly anyone around here knew he was racing
Chase+Elliott+NASCAR+K+N+Pro+Series+East+CNB+_L-YT_x9-yXl.jpg

Here is Elliott in a 1.5 mile car everybody knows who he is.
Chase+Elliott+Daytona+International+Speedway+kMZ5Oi80RWrl.jpg
 
The story Ghosts of North Wilesboro (another thread) explained one of the reasons short tracks lost out to bigger tracks is that it cost teams a lot of money fixing wrecked race cars. And replacing tracks is also expensive. As cars keep getting faster they become more dependent on aerodynamics. Every time NASCAR tries to slow the cars down the team engineers find ways to speed them back up.
 
SpeedPagan said:
The cars are trying to race at tracks that are meant for series like IndyCar, where the tremendous amount of down force makes them perfect for the high speed 1.5 mile oval.
Click to expand...

You're so wrong I'm actually embarrassed for you.

All the tri-oval 1.5 mile tracks are based on Charlotte. They were built all over the country by ISC and SMI for NASCAR. Pocono, Indianapolis, Phoenix, New Hampshire and Homestead before it was reconfigured are tracks that were built for open-wheel cars.
 
KevinWI said:
You're so wrong I'm actually embarrassed for you.

All the tri-oval 1.5 mile tracks are based on Charlotte. They were built all over the country by ISC and SMI for NASCAR. Pocono, Indianapolis, Phoenix, New Hampshire and Homestead before it was reconfigured are tracks that were built for open-wheel cars.
Click to expand...
I thought Chicagoland was a joint effort between whatever the alliance between Bill France Jr. and Tony George was called. And Las Vegas was bought a few years after it opened in an SMI-ISC bidding war.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom