S
SST55
Guest
It's over. Even if it's proved the testing was flawed and it was a false positive he's done. No apology will ever reach the magnitude of the accusasion. No sponsor will want their name on his car, guilty by association. No owner will want him due to the extra scrutiny and possible retribution by Na$car.
Now I am hoping the tests were done correctly and there's 100% proof positive of his drug use. Because the thought of Na$car destroying a young man's carreer, his life, on flawed testing turns my stomach.
Now I am hoping the tests were done correctly and there's 100% proof positive of his drug use. Because the thought of Na$car destroying a young man's carreer, his life, on flawed testing turns my stomach.
S
speedwayphoto
Guest
one name comes to mind on this, John Delorean........... most people if asked know about the car, know about the scandal, and most think he was locked up and found guilty..... most don't know that he was found innocent, but his life, car, and career never recovered......
It's sad for Jeremy either way........ if he is innocent, it doesn't matter, he has been tried in the court of public opinion and stoned. He will never have a career in racing. If he is guilty, it is still sad that someone would throw away what thousands all across the country work for, dream about and live for the possibility of, to be a NASCAR full time racer........
It's sad for Jeremy either way........ if he is innocent, it doesn't matter, he has been tried in the court of public opinion and stoned. He will never have a career in racing. If he is guilty, it is still sad that someone would throw away what thousands all across the country work for, dream about and live for the possibility of, to be a NASCAR full time racer........
F
foehammer111
Guest
Me too.
Like you said, even if he's proven not-guilty his public image and career have been damaged beyond repair. Hopefully the testing was done correctly, otherwise it will be a huge problem for NASCAR's public image. Not just Mayfield.
P
PettyBlue
Guest
So if NASCAR can't keep Jeremy from racing the almighty dollar will.
Go Panthers
We are the people our parents warned us about
well this just proves what your saying.
http://sports.espn.go.com/rpm/nascar/cup/news/story?id=4301781
"Whether he's right, wrong or different right now, he's marked," said Baldwin, "and that's going to hurt him probably for the rest of his career."
I dont know if Mayfield is guilty or not, but if he's not, then he should sue the pants off of nascar. If he is guilty, then bye bye.
Maybe it really was meth. But it could of been a one time deal. He could of had a rough patch. Or was really stupid. But if someone does a drug one time should we hang time at high noon? Truck drivers are huge on meth and coke to keep them awake and alert and yet most of us don't think twice before driving beside one on the interstate.
8
83WynnsOlds
Guest
Excellent point!!! Very well said.
I still believe it was not meth. If it wasn't, Jeremy could end up owning NASCRAP....sorry FOEHAMMER, i meant NASCAR.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
Zero tolerance. One strike and your out. No excuses.
Go Panthers
We are the people our parents warned us about
you know that system is stupid, ive always thought that. Someone makes one mistake one time in their life and we should let it ruin their life?
what if mayfield did meth one time...he doesnt ever do it again and stays clean for the rest of his life. You really believe he shouldnt be allowed back in a race car ever?
I mean he would have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that he's clean...
I dont give a flying f*** what he does in his private life, as long as whatever drugs he takes doesnt enhance his performance or put anyone else in danger.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
They have a reinstatement process established in which he refuses to follow. He chose the legal system instead.
Go Panthers
We are the people our parents warned us about
which is his right as an American Citizen.....
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I agree totally. That is his right. It is also NASCAR's right that if you fail their drug test, you are not allowed to compete until you comply with their established rules.
blue92
Team Owner
You mean the National Association of Same Car Racing?
Go Panthers
We are the people our parents warned us about
I agree with you on that. Nascar has done a lousy job of creating rules in the past, they need to make sure that the drug test is 100% fair.
What i have read on this board in the past day or so is that nascar lists the drugs that crew members can and can not use, they do not have a list of that the drivers can and can not take.
That to be is a huge gray area that needs to be addressed. Other sports have that list, why doesnt nascar?
MRM
Team Owner
There are a lot of good drivers out there not racing because of the almight dollar, or lackthereof.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
I would think that this instance will cause NASCAR to release such a list.
Try to look at this though in simple terms without any emotion on this subject.....
A driver that you've had tested fails a drug test. It comes back positive for, what I believe were three different items. I think one was over the counter, one a prescription and one an illegal substance. Neither the over the counter nor the prescription were declared prior to testing as required by their drug policy. A second sample is tested and the same results are returned. What is NASCAR to do at that point? As far as they are concerned, they have a driver that has just failed their testing, big time. They can't allow him to race. What about the liability that they would have if they allowed him to race knowing that he's failed two tests?
Go Panthers
We are the people our parents warned us about
i agree with what your saying...i think the reason why he is allowed to race is because the B sample was tested independtly or something like that.
What strikes me as odd is that nascar is not appealing this....
Let me make it clear, i do not want someone on drugs driving a race car, i'm not standing by that at all. What i am saying is, Nascar better make damn sure they have all their ducks in a row before they tell a guy to take a hike. If they are wrong, then they are in some really hot water.
kelloggs5TLfan
Team Owner
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
The judge basically ruled on Mayfields behalf because the harm to Mayfield's career outweighs the harm to NASCAR.
Correction, NASCAR has yet to appeal.
Again, they didn't tell him to 'take a hike'. As far as they're concerned, they have a driver that failed their established drug testing program. He would be able to compete again if he were to follow the strict guidelines set in their program. He's refusing to do so. That's why we're all having this discussion today. NASCAR has to protect their own ass. They would be liable if there were issues on the track and they knew he failed their drug program.
Stupid example but what about this imaginary scenario..... What if he failed the test and they allowed him to continue racing. Then you have something tragic happened to him or to anyone else because of him on the track. Lawsuits galore!
J
John Galt
Guest
I don't have a dog in this hunt. I have disliked Mayfield since he showed up and Cale picked him up in the mid 90's. His attitude reminded me of a latter day DW. But then I have no love for this current NA__AR reign, either. As far as I'm concerned NA__AR's credibility ranks right in there with politicians.
Does anyone else remember the last time NA__AR got ruled against in an alleged drug case? Tim Richmond. It used its considerable power and access to the media in an attempt to destroy Tim (which HTLV - now AIDS) had already done.
Does anyone else remember the last time NA__AR got ruled against in an alleged drug case? Tim Richmond. It used its considerable power and access to the media in an attempt to destroy Tim (which HTLV - now AIDS) had already done.
Whizzer
Gig'em
Funny, but as I was reading these responses, the first thought that came to my mind was Tim Richmond. I recall that incident and how NASCAR presented it from the very beginning. Richmond never stood a chance. NASCAR had Tim Richmond tried, found guilty and hung out to dry in not only theirs, but also in the court of public opinion. One could only hope things have changed since then. In Richmonds case, it would not have made any difference but the circumstances surrounding NASCAR's accusations did not follow the adage, innocent until proven guilty.
Jeremy destroyed his own career a long time ago. Why do you think he had to buy a race car to drive one? He was a mouthy, PITA to work with, that's why he was let go from his last ride.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
There was never any 'drug case' that was ruled against NASCAR in regards to Tim Richmond. Sorry, I guess I added the 'S'. That was a completely different set of circumstances in a completely different era. You may want to do some research before comparing the two incidents.
buckaroo
Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Hmmm, I wonder if you aren't tied to NASCAR or something like that. Your responses have been totally swayed towards NASCAR, regardless of what is presented to you. One thing I will agree on and that is NASCAR had to do something and their choice was the right choice. However, since that time, it's taken on a life of it's own and again, public opinion rules, regardless. I would hope that never in your lifetime, or anyone else's for that matter, have a false accusation thrown your way. If it does happen, you're screwed, no matter. In this society, we take for granted certain accusations as fact, rather than false and it all depends on who is making the accusation. Case in point, when a 14 year old girl calls social services and tells them that their father is sexually abusing them, from that time on, that man is labeled as a child molester, and one who molested his own daughter. It doesn't make a lick of difference if the girl makes up the who scenario because her father might have grounded her for being out too late, it's a fact in many, if not most people's eyes.
I don't know what the answer is to this problem but we may or may not ever find out. Jeremy Mayfield is but a fly that is pestering NASCAR and if anyone thinks that he can overcome Goliath, maybe they need to take some meth. But when one stops to think about why would a man invest his life savings into something that he loves to do, and then think that he could get away with doing meth? I don't know Jeremy, but from what I've seen of him, and I'm not a fan, I don't think he's that stupid. Obviously many, if not most people do think he's stupid.
dpkimmel2001
Team Owner
No, I have nothing to do with NASCAR. Also, I didn't say that what happened to Tim Richmond was correct. I only said that the statement that there was a suit brought against NASCAR was incorrect. There's plenty of info on Tim Richmond out there. The circumstances were completely different. There was an ignorant attitude towards HIV as not much was understood. NASCAR was on the ignorant side in that instance.
Each of us have our own opinion on Mayfield and what is going on now. You feel strong in your beliefs as do I.
Unfortunately, there are far to many people that have everything going for them that fall under that category every day. Heck, it's been happening in NASCAR and nobody has thought of it as a big deal until Mayfield.
E
Eagle1
Guest
So because we disagree with you and we don't blame NASCAR for all the evils in the world like many of you do that makes us tied to NASCAR and our opinions less valid than yours?
Is this supposed to be a HATE NASCAR board or something that makes us wrong for liking it?
You don't like the management, you don't like the rules, you don't like the cars, you don't like a good number of team owners, you don't like half the drivers, you don't like most of the tracks and you bash people that do like, enjoy and defend the series we like?
Something seems screwy there, maybe you should change the name so unsuspecting folks that actually enjoy NASCAR will have a clue.
I don't think NASCAR does everything perfect, but looking around at all the other series that have been around for many years and had equal opportunity to grow and become what NASCAR is today, I think they are the best ones out there.
But I can tell you one thing, if I had the disgust must of you show for NASCAR I'd be out watching some other series and not wasting my time crying and complaining because a privately owned business didn't do things the way I wanted them to. If all you people that dislike NASCAR so much packed up your bags and put your time and efforts into another series you could make it grow with the popularity, with that would come TV deals, big sponsors with financing, the best drivers and teams would move into that series.
IMHO I bet it wouldn't be long before the same core group that blames NASCAR for all the evils here would be doing it wherever they went no matter what series.
NASCAR implimented a no tolorance drug policy that many people, including many from this forum condemded them for not having, so they did it.
They hired the #1 drug testing lab in the country to set up and manage the policy, NASCAR does not actually manage it them selves, but yet it's still all NASCAR'S fault.
Nascar did not turn this into the circus it has become, Jeremy brought this thing on himself. Had he followed the instructions and dealt with the DR. he would have had the chance to prove it was a false posative by being tested a few times, and probably been back racing already had it really been a false positive.
Instead he opted to start this dog and pony show playing the media and fans all stalling for time trying to make sure it's out of his system. BS is all I have to say.
Is this supposed to be a HATE NASCAR board or something that makes us wrong for liking it?
You don't like the management, you don't like the rules, you don't like the cars, you don't like a good number of team owners, you don't like half the drivers, you don't like most of the tracks and you bash people that do like, enjoy and defend the series we like?
Something seems screwy there, maybe you should change the name so unsuspecting folks that actually enjoy NASCAR will have a clue.
I don't think NASCAR does everything perfect, but looking around at all the other series that have been around for many years and had equal opportunity to grow and become what NASCAR is today, I think they are the best ones out there.
But I can tell you one thing, if I had the disgust must of you show for NASCAR I'd be out watching some other series and not wasting my time crying and complaining because a privately owned business didn't do things the way I wanted them to. If all you people that dislike NASCAR so much packed up your bags and put your time and efforts into another series you could make it grow with the popularity, with that would come TV deals, big sponsors with financing, the best drivers and teams would move into that series.
IMHO I bet it wouldn't be long before the same core group that blames NASCAR for all the evils here would be doing it wherever they went no matter what series.
NASCAR implimented a no tolorance drug policy that many people, including many from this forum condemded them for not having, so they did it.
They hired the #1 drug testing lab in the country to set up and manage the policy, NASCAR does not actually manage it them selves, but yet it's still all NASCAR'S fault.
Nascar did not turn this into the circus it has become, Jeremy brought this thing on himself. Had he followed the instructions and dealt with the DR. he would have had the chance to prove it was a false posative by being tested a few times, and probably been back racing already had it really been a false positive.
Instead he opted to start this dog and pony show playing the media and fans all stalling for time trying to make sure it's out of his system. BS is all I have to say.
J
John Galt
Guest
Hmmm... May I offer the same advice? This is an incident I remember personally and as well as my advancing age will allow. I'm going to go from memory here and you're free to check out the matter I offer. If I'm proved wrong I will gladly apologize:
Tim had contracted HTLV (later to be referred to as AIDS) and attempted to continue to drive. As with anyone who is seriously ill, Tim's was noticeably "not himself." NASCAR (they actually looked like stock car in the 80's) had Tim take a whiz quiz and immediately announced that they found "Controlled substances," and banned Tim from the track. Tim immediately denied that and with the help of his lawyer, got NASCAR to accept a second urine sample. No controlled substances were found and Tim counter sued to be allowed to drive.
Under oath NASCAR (I forget who took the stand for NASCAR; sorry) admitted that the "Controlled substances" were Advil and Sudafed. The Judge found in Tim's favor and threw the case out.
NASCAR re-countered by demanding that Tim produce his medical records before he would be allowed back on the track. It also is widely reported by a number of drivers that NASCAR officials were very quick to label Tim a drug addict to his former fellow drivers. Tim sued NASCAR for defamation of character but NASCAR counter sued once more demanding Tim produce not only medical records but personal records, tax records and list of personal acquaintances.
You might not have been around long enough to remember how HTLV was viewed in the 80's. It was considered a 100% homosexual disease and had the accompanying stigma attached to it. For this reason and because his illness had accelerated rapidly, Tim just gave up and returned to Palm Beach.
It is also of note that virtually the ONLY person to stand by Tim during this entire ordeal was Rick Hendrick. That is one thing I will always respect the man for.
You may do some research yourself (I heartily suggest it, as a matter of fact) to verify the veracity of my memory. I didn't go into dates but what I have just stated is true, to the best of my memory. So, this case obviously has a number of parallels to the Mayfield case (from my perspective anyway).
Have a good day.
S
SlowNeasy
Guest
if i knew a truck driver (or anyone else) driving beside me was high on anything i'd have the cops on speed dial before he had the chance to do something stupid while dui. i seriously doubt (hope) that there is a large percentage of truck drivers that take such risks.
buckaroo
Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Whoa there big guy, I don't know for sure you are addressing this towards me, but because I was the one who asked if dk was connected with NASCAR, I assume you are directing this to me. I know you are old, but you should think before you type. I've of course done my share of complaining, but you have never heard me do the likes of what you accuse me of doing. I'm not going to ask you to show me where I've said any of those things, but if you look, you won't find any of them. Not liking the management? Not liking the rules?, Not liking the cars? Not liking a good number of team owners? Not liking half the drivers? Not liking most of the tracks? And other than Andy have I bashed to enjoy and defend the series?
On this subject, and again as I've said, I have no dog, for your info, that means that I don't give a sh*t about the outcome, I am just giving my opinion that many others outside of NASCAR have given. If you want to act like DW and the late Benny Parsons and believe that your beloved NASCAR can do no harm or make a mistake, then say so and we will agree to disagree. On the other hand, if it's just that you don't agree with me, then don't throw accusations at me that are unfounded.
E
Eagle1
Guest
As they say when they're done with a subject, WHATEVER.
But yes you are certainly one of several I am referring to. And I said I didn't think it was perfect but I do think it is the best option out there.
But yes you are certainly one of several I am referring to. And I said I didn't think it was perfect but I do think it is the best option out there.
It's true, methamphetamine used is WIDESPREAD among the long-haul trucking industry.
From NASCAR.com
Team owners shy away from 'marked' Mayfield
By The Associated Press
July 2, 2009
02:54 PM EDT
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Four team owners won't put Jeremy Mayfield in their cars this weekend at Daytona International Speedway, one because of sponsor concerns and another because Mayfield is "marked" following his legal battle with NASCAR.
Mayfield faces a Thursday afternoon deadline to bring Mayfield Motorsports to Daytona in time to join the 45 other entrants. His indefinite suspension for a failed drug test was lifted by a federal judge Wednesday, allowing him to race this weekend.
He can drive for someone else or bring his own No. 41 Toyota to the track, but the $5,005 late entry fee is daunting for the cash-strapped Mayfield. He said in an affidavit last week that he laid off 10 employees, borrowed money from family and had to sell personal assets to cover his living expenses.
He's also being sued for more than $86,000 by Triad Racing Technologies for parts, pieces and chassis work that Mayfield allegedly owes the company.
Mayfield said outside court Wednesday he would travel to Daytona, but wasn't sure in what capacity. His suspension covered both his roles as driver and owner of his car, and he wasn't sure he could put something together in time.
Former series champion Matt Kenseth doesn't think Mayfield will be shunned by other drivers if he returns.
"I don't think he'll be treated any different," Kenseth said. "I don't know of any people off hand or any people that have ever really had a problem with Jeremy. I don't know if we'll ever know or if there's a way to really find out or not if it's right or wrong. But certainly, if for some reason it was wrong, you feel bad for the guy because he's been kind of crucified already."
And getting back onto the track may prove difficult.
Larry Gunselman and Tommy Baldwin, two owners who potentially could have given Mayfield a ride, said they weren't considering him for Saturday night's race.
"Whether he's right, wrong or different right now, he's marked," said Baldwin, "and that's going to hurt him probably for the rest of his career."
Phil Parsons said he'd keep Dave Blaney in his No. 66 car, and Joe Nemechek said he had no intention of giving up his seat in his No. 87.
"No way," said Nemechek, who has given his seat to Red Bull Racing twice this season after rookie Scott Speed failed to qualify for races. "He's got his own stuff."
NASCAR suspended Mayfield on May 9 after he tested positive in a random drug test on May 1, and spokesman Ramsey Poston confirmed Wednesday that Mayfield tested positive for methamphetamines. Mayfield sued, and U.S. District Court Judge Graham Mullen issued a temporary injunction that allows Mayfield to return to NASCAR this weekend.
Driving Gunselman's No. 64 was believed to be Mayfield's best opportunity at Daytona, but Gunselman said Southeastern-based discount store Fred's, which signed on to sponsor his car this weekend, did not want to associate itself with Mayfield.
"They probably would choose not to be involved at this particular time," said Gunselman, who added he had not had any direct conversations with Mayfield about replacing Mike Wallace in the car.
"For being a small, startup team that's struggled, I have to consider every potential scenario for our race team. Everybody's feelings are kind of sensitive at the moment, and I'd have to be very aware of everything involved."
Gunselman said he'd be willing to work with Mayfield going forward. With no sponsor lined up for next week's race in Chicago, he wouldn't have the Fred's conflict. He also said NASCAR told him Mayfield is clear to drive.
"They said their position is Jeremy is an approved driver, so it was kind of left at that. I don't know where it's going to go from here," Gunselman said. "I've been involved in NASCAR for a long time, and I'm hoping all parties can put this thing behind them and move forward in a positive manner. If I can help mediate that or be somehow involved in that, that would be wonderful."
Ten teams are trying to qualify for eight open spots in Saturday night's race, but only a handful likely would consider making a driver change to accommodate Mayfield.
Told Mayfield had potentially sold a portion of his inventory to raise money, Nemechek said "I don't think anybody bought it. Not these days."
Baldwin, who was briefly crew chief for Mayfield at Bill Davis Racing in 2006, said he was sticking with Patrick Carpentier this weekend.
"We all like Jeremy, there's no doubt about that," Baldwin said. "The unfortunate thing is the last couple months here, he's gone through his struggles and it's not going to help him in the business world of racing. That's for sure."
Team owners shy away from 'marked' Mayfield
By The Associated Press
July 2, 2009
02:54 PM EDT
DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Four team owners won't put Jeremy Mayfield in their cars this weekend at Daytona International Speedway, one because of sponsor concerns and another because Mayfield is "marked" following his legal battle with NASCAR.
Mayfield faces a Thursday afternoon deadline to bring Mayfield Motorsports to Daytona in time to join the 45 other entrants. His indefinite suspension for a failed drug test was lifted by a federal judge Wednesday, allowing him to race this weekend.
He can drive for someone else or bring his own No. 41 Toyota to the track, but the $5,005 late entry fee is daunting for the cash-strapped Mayfield. He said in an affidavit last week that he laid off 10 employees, borrowed money from family and had to sell personal assets to cover his living expenses.
He's also being sued for more than $86,000 by Triad Racing Technologies for parts, pieces and chassis work that Mayfield allegedly owes the company.
Mayfield said outside court Wednesday he would travel to Daytona, but wasn't sure in what capacity. His suspension covered both his roles as driver and owner of his car, and he wasn't sure he could put something together in time.
Former series champion Matt Kenseth doesn't think Mayfield will be shunned by other drivers if he returns.
"I don't think he'll be treated any different," Kenseth said. "I don't know of any people off hand or any people that have ever really had a problem with Jeremy. I don't know if we'll ever know or if there's a way to really find out or not if it's right or wrong. But certainly, if for some reason it was wrong, you feel bad for the guy because he's been kind of crucified already."
And getting back onto the track may prove difficult.
Larry Gunselman and Tommy Baldwin, two owners who potentially could have given Mayfield a ride, said they weren't considering him for Saturday night's race.
"Whether he's right, wrong or different right now, he's marked," said Baldwin, "and that's going to hurt him probably for the rest of his career."
Phil Parsons said he'd keep Dave Blaney in his No. 66 car, and Joe Nemechek said he had no intention of giving up his seat in his No. 87.
"No way," said Nemechek, who has given his seat to Red Bull Racing twice this season after rookie Scott Speed failed to qualify for races. "He's got his own stuff."
NASCAR suspended Mayfield on May 9 after he tested positive in a random drug test on May 1, and spokesman Ramsey Poston confirmed Wednesday that Mayfield tested positive for methamphetamines. Mayfield sued, and U.S. District Court Judge Graham Mullen issued a temporary injunction that allows Mayfield to return to NASCAR this weekend.
Driving Gunselman's No. 64 was believed to be Mayfield's best opportunity at Daytona, but Gunselman said Southeastern-based discount store Fred's, which signed on to sponsor his car this weekend, did not want to associate itself with Mayfield.
"They probably would choose not to be involved at this particular time," said Gunselman, who added he had not had any direct conversations with Mayfield about replacing Mike Wallace in the car.
"For being a small, startup team that's struggled, I have to consider every potential scenario for our race team. Everybody's feelings are kind of sensitive at the moment, and I'd have to be very aware of everything involved."
Gunselman said he'd be willing to work with Mayfield going forward. With no sponsor lined up for next week's race in Chicago, he wouldn't have the Fred's conflict. He also said NASCAR told him Mayfield is clear to drive.
"They said their position is Jeremy is an approved driver, so it was kind of left at that. I don't know where it's going to go from here," Gunselman said. "I've been involved in NASCAR for a long time, and I'm hoping all parties can put this thing behind them and move forward in a positive manner. If I can help mediate that or be somehow involved in that, that would be wonderful."
Ten teams are trying to qualify for eight open spots in Saturday night's race, but only a handful likely would consider making a driver change to accommodate Mayfield.
Told Mayfield had potentially sold a portion of his inventory to raise money, Nemechek said "I don't think anybody bought it. Not these days."
Baldwin, who was briefly crew chief for Mayfield at Bill Davis Racing in 2006, said he was sticking with Patrick Carpentier this weekend.
"We all like Jeremy, there's no doubt about that," Baldwin said. "The unfortunate thing is the last couple months here, he's gone through his struggles and it's not going to help him in the business world of racing. That's for sure."
OK, friends, let's back away from the keyboards and take some deep breaths. This is getting way too personal.
We all have opinions about Jeremy, NASCAR, and who shot the cat. Just agree to disagree and move on.
Everything will eventually come out in the wash.
We all have opinions about Jeremy, NASCAR, and who shot the cat. Just agree to disagree and move on.
Everything will eventually come out in the wash.
buckaroo
Here kitty, kitty, kitty
Just goes to show you how passionate people are with this sport. I do hope this subject will end soon, but I suspect that it won't. However, I do believe that the debates have pretty much run their course and it won't begin again until the court action is over.
Man I love this sport, even if my pal Eagle1 doesn't think so.
Drinks are on the house and the loser will pay...that might be six or seven years from now though.
Just goes to show you how passionate people are with this sport. I do hope this subject will end soon, but I suspect that it won't. However, I do believe that the debates have pretty much run their course and it won't begin again until the court action is over.
Man I love this sport, even if my pal Eagle1 doesn't think so.
Drinks are on the house and the loser will pay...that might be six or seven years from now though.
I agree!
I think there is enough money in the bail bond fund to stand a round of drinks.
