Mystery Debris

BobbyFord

BobbyFord

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Phantom caution issue raised by Kahne: The [phantom debris] issue has come roaring back behind #9-Kasey Kahne's accusation that NASCAR threw a bogus caution Sunday to bunch up the field and avoid a boring runaway win by Jimmie Johnson at Auto Club Speedway. Kahne was likely headed to a top-10 finish when he was wrecked on a restart with 12 laps to go. Kurt Busch started the accident when he bounced off the wall and into Kahne. The contact sent Kahne into Greg Biffle, and both cars spun through the grass with enough damage to ruin their race. "It's disappointing that we had a bad race because of a caution to put a show on for the fans. That's a good part of the sport - we have to keep the fans excited - but sometimes it ruins people's days," said Kahne. There's one small problem with Kahne's contention. There was clearly debris on the track. "There was debris on the track, it was talked about on the (NASCAR) radio, it was identified as something being there and the caution was thrown," NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said Monday. And if NASCAR had been wrong, and there was nothing on the track? Oh well. "NASCAR is always going to put the safety of the competitors first, and when it comes to identifying something on the track, we're always going to err on the side of caution," Poston said. And that's what will forever keep this issue alive. Because sometimes there may not be debris on the track, competitors and fans will always form their own opinions on NASCAR's intent at the time of the caution.(Associated Press)(10-13-2009)
 
BobbyFord said:
Phantom caution issue raised by Kahne: The [phantom debris] issue has come roaring back behind #9-Kasey Kahne's accusation that NASCAR threw a bogus caution Sunday to bunch up the field and avoid a boring runaway win by Jimmie Johnson at Auto Club Speedway. Kahne was likely headed to a top-10 finish when he was wrecked on a restart with 12 laps to go. Kurt Busch started the accident when he bounced off the wall and into Kahne. The contact sent Kahne into Greg Biffle, and both cars spun through the grass with enough damage to ruin their race. "It's disappointing that we had a bad race because of a caution to put a show on for the fans. That's a good part of the sport - we have to keep the fans excited - but sometimes it ruins people's days," said Kahne. There's one small problem with Kahne's contention. There was clearly debris on the track. "There was debris on the track, it was talked about on the (NASCAR) radio, it was identified as something being there and the caution was thrown," NASCAR spokesman Ramsey Poston said Monday. And if NASCAR had been wrong, and there was nothing on the track? Oh well. "NASCAR is always going to put the safety of the competitors first, and when it comes to identifying something on the track, we're always going to err on the side of caution," Poston said. And that's what will forever keep this issue alive. Because sometimes there may not be debris on the track, competitors and fans will always form their own opinions on NASCAR's intent at the time of the caution.(Associated Press)(10-13-2009)
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I'd get on my soapbox, but Smoke said it best a few years ago:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y_TZoaRk3M
 
I am very surprised no one has said this before. I have witnessed several races on T.V. and a few live and in color that have had the phantom debris cautions, usually around 10 to 15 to go.

One that sticks out in my mind was at 'dega during a Busch race. The only reason I question that caution was that there was a huge hunk of debris on the apron leaving pit road at 'dega, at the widest section of the apron close to the inside retaining wall. NASCAR called the caution, and my neighbor with a scanner said that NASCAR was throwing the caution for that piece of debris, about 75 feet away from the racing surface and well out of pit lane path. Seemed a bit extreme for a caution, but then again the action had gotten stale before the end of the race.
 
Remember when Robbie Gordon threw out a piece of cushion from his rollbar to cause a caution? That was classic....LOL
 
i must have been watching a different race because there was clearly shown debris on the track. kinda high but cars were racing up there all day.
 
SlowNeasy said:
i must have been watching a different race because there was clearly shown debris on the track. kinda high but cars were racing up there all day.
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The debris in question, I believe was on the apron on the inside of the backstretch. Dale Jr. said "This is bull****, I can't believe they're throwing a yellow for a hunk of rubber..." Apparently, it was a ball of rubber "marbles" that had built up in a wheelwell and was tossed out. I saw it on my Fanview and it was nowhere near ANY line that any car was running. JJ was a mile out front and NASCAR wanted a closer finish. Ultimately, Kasey collected with the 16 on the restart and that took away any chance of either car having a decent finish. Tsk, tsk, NASCAR.
 
crazytrain said:
Remember when Robbie Gordon threw out a piece of cushion from his rollbar to cause a caution? That was classic....LOL
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He learned that from Jimmie Spencer, from a Michigan race about 8 years ago.

He never forgets...
 
Kasey was just frustated seeing his Chase hopes fade away.
 
muggle not said:
Kasey was just frustated seeing his Chase hopes fade away.
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Along with his slim to none chance of ever getting into the Hall of Fame.

I think he was way out of line for saying this on live TV. It's one thing for fans to complain about it, but drivers should know better.

NASCAR has the very un-envyable job of keeping drivers safe. A lot of times it's very difficult for them to tell if a piece of debris is dangerous or not. A perfect example is the Nationwide race the day before. There was debris right in the middle of the track that looked like a piece of sheet metal. So NASCAR did the right thing and let the caution fly. Turns out it was just a water bottle, but even the commentators thought it was metal at first.

If drivers are going to moan about NASCAR throwing the caution to keep them safe, then I say screw them and don't throw a caution for anything. 10 car wreck? Drive around it. Tire debris all over the track? Deal with it.

After a few of the dumber ones like Kahne are badly injured or killed, they'll be begging NASCAR to wave the caution flag once in a while. Even if no one is killed, sucky drivers like Kahne need the cautions to try and stay on the lead lap.

This isn't like F1 where the tracks have tons of runoff areas, and track officials have 1-2 minutes to run out on the track to clean debris before the cars come back around. Cautions are a way of life in NASCAR. Better get used to it.

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement with cautions. Things like having an official show the debris in question, or a rule like "no debris cautions inside of 10 laps unless someone crashes, or loses a tire" would certainly help.

I just think drivers should check the lost & found for their honor, and not complain about it on camera.
 
Kasey was not the only driver complaining about it. The radio chatter was abundant. Kasey was the only one that said something to the camera. A LOT of the drivers were complaining about the B.S. cautions.
 
BobbyFord said:
Kasey was not the only driver complaining about it. The radio chatter was abundant. Kasey was the only one that said something to the camera. A LOT of the drivers were complaining about the B.S. cautions.
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Yes, but some fans must have better knowledge of the cautions then the drivers, or maybe only think they do. :D
 
I know what I saw on TV, too obvious for the untrained eye????? Geeeezzz
What's in the past is in the past.........................
 
BobbyFord said:
Kasey was not the only driver complaining about it. The radio chatter was abundant. Kasey was the only one that said something to the camera. A LOT of the drivers were complaining about the B.S. cautions.
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ESPN said the drivers didn't "have the luxury of seeing the water bottles" that were thrown on the track.
 
foehammer111 said:
Along with his slim to none chance of ever getting into the Hall of Fame.

I think he was way out of line for saying this on live TV. It's one thing for fans to complain about it, but drivers should know better.

NASCAR has the very un-envyable job of keeping drivers safe. A lot of times it's very difficult for them to tell if a piece of debris is dangerous or not. A perfect example is the Nationwide race the day before. There was debris right in the middle of the track that looked like a piece of sheet metal. So NASCAR did the right thing and let the caution fly. Turns out it was just a water bottle, but even the commentators thought it was metal at first.

If drivers are going to moan about NASCAR throwing the caution to keep them safe, then I say screw them and don't throw a caution for anything. 10 car wreck? Drive around it. Tire debris all over the track? Deal with it.

After a few of the dumber ones like Kahne are badly injured or killed, they'll be begging NASCAR to wave the caution flag once in a while. Even if no one is killed, sucky drivers like Kahne need the cautions to try and stay on the lead lap.

This isn't like F1 where the tracks have tons of runoff areas, and track officials have 1-2 minutes to run out on the track to clean debris before the cars come back around. Cautions are a way of life in NASCAR. Better get used to it.

I'm not saying there isn't room for improvement with cautions. Things like having an official show the debris in question, or a rule like "no debris cautions inside of 10 laps unless someone crashes, or loses a tire" would certainly help.

I just think drivers should check the lost & found for their honor, and not complain about it on camera.
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Well i beg to differ with you Kasey isn't a sucky driver, and the debris caution was pretty lame IMO, no need for it. Then again this is Nascar and they can do what they want!
 
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