Nascar: A Big Circus

what do you think about the way nascar has changed

  • I like the way nascar is the direction its going

    Votes: 3 23.1%

  • I miss the old days and or it needs a change

    Votes: 10 76.9%
  • Total voters
    13
H

Hemi008

Guest
i have been a loyal nascar fan for the past 10 years of my life. in my opinion this new points setup and with toyota comin in i have to say im really disapointed. its becoming a big circus... thats all there is to it. im waiting for a big top to roll on the track like that big tropicana orange did last year at chicago. and for the pace car a clown car with 10 midgets piling in.

why do i say this, simple reasons...
1. Toyota is now involved. if i were running the show i would tell toyota to go and shove there cars up there ass. im telling you right now if toyota comes out with a cup car i will never watch it again.
2. Chase for the cup bull crap. 10 races to the end dont quite get it. 10 cars make it in first 26 races mean absolutely nothing.. big waste of time and money. final 10 races big joke too much politics and not enough racing. and what about the 11th place guy and back. this is where you will see sponsors and teams leaving.. if you dont make the chase you just spent all that time in the shop and on testing and building cars and sponsors wasted money on the team. with this new points deal you will see teams leaving and sponsors leaving as fast as the new charger will be hated by anyone with a brain.
3. money.. nascar is getting too in dept with technology and money. the only teams you see that are doing anything anymore are hendrick and roush. this is the same thing that happened to indy cars when they split up.
what you will see is another series likely to be busch that will remain untouched and like the old days. you already see drivers saying how the busch series is funner and more competitive. the whole problem is is that brian france or whoever runs this deal needs a reality check. this new setup is almost like survivor or something along that road. we need to get back to racing the way it was in the 80's where there was not alot of money being spent on new technology. they need no restrictor plates but need narrower tires. the cars need to be close together where its a drivers race. not a race which depends on how much money you can spend.
4. whining- one word. hendrick. enough said. the entire hendrick team other than terry labonte need a set of tampons. terry labonte is the only person in the hendrick camp that doesnt complain or whine and cry. kyle bush just started and he is already as bad as gordon and johnson. now i am a johnson fan but if he continues to complain i will stop liking him.
5. with the outbreak of fights and what not over the past few years including kurt bush and jimmy spencer kevin harvick and matt kenseth gordon and jarret gordon and rusty harvick and rudd and a few others. i can see a fight or 2 here and there but this is just rediculous.
6. point deductions. if jamie mcmurray wouldnt have been fined 25 points he wouldve made this so called chase. and with junior fine. so he said **** what person has not said that before. if you show me a person whos never said **** before then ill show you some one whos full of it. excuse my language..
7. racing back to cautions. you need to race back to cautions unless there is an immediate danger and a chance of someone getting hurt. then if that happens they can tell the teams to not race back.
8. lucky dog... i am tired of this. i have seen too many people come back from the lead lap. if you go a lap down then its for a reason. with the lucky dog it doesnt matter if your a lap down you get it back. in my opinion that is a joke.
9. over all rules. the rules change depending on who they apply to. that and they make them up as they go.

in conclusion im sorry but nascar is just starting to become a big joke.
 
Interesting first post.

If Toyota does get involved and you refuse to watch...don't worry, we'll keep you updated.

The Circus IS the greatest show on earth, after all.
 
I'm just a Newby here, but I've been a NASCAR fan for a lot more than 10 years, and here's how I feel about Hemi008's comments:

1. Disagree (Good bye)
2. Agree (to a point)
3. Disagree
4. Disagree
5. Disagree
6. Disagree / but some truth in that
7. Disagree
8. Agree
9. Disagree
 
1. Toyota is now involved. if i were running the show i would tell toyota to go and shove there cars up there ass. im telling you right now if toyota comes out with a cup car i will never watch it again.

You should start looking for a new hobby while you have some time on your hands. And then when Toys are warming up in the pits.....
Don't let the breeze hitcha where the good lord splitcha! We will hardly know you are gone!
Betsy
 
say what you want but watch. its just like jimmy spencer said about toyota when they first came in. its an american sport. toyota is a japanese company. dont give me none of that crap about its based in america or whatever they are still a japanese company.
 
also might i add. tracks are leaving. if you have not noticed nascar has budged out from down south and on the east side to going to the west coast. tracks are shutting down. darlington is almost extinct. rockingham is gone. whats next. they will probably shut down daytona or talladega. you never know in this sport. too many politics too many money issues.
 
I guess I don't have a brain in my head, but I disagree with almost everything you said. I've been a long time racing fan and sure I'm not real happy with some of the changes but they always seem to work themselves out in the end. There have been many many unpopular changes over the years but it's always worked and the sport has kept growing. The biggest difference today than in past years as far as hearing peoples complaints is the internet and message boards. It's not that there's anymore discontent, just that greater numbers are now heard from.

Whining????? You got the nerve to complain about anyone whining?? I'm having cheese and crackers sent to you to go with all that whine.
 
Hemi my friend,

I've been involved in racing one type of car or another since sometime in the mid-50's; my dad was involved before me.
We never did get rich or famous, but we sure have had lots of fun and made more than a few friends along the way.
Happy to say the my son is carrying on the tradition as well.

I'll let you in on a small secret:
Racing has always been a circus, the clowns have to pay to perform and the clown with the biggest pocketbook usually comes out on top of the heap. The others sort of fall off by the wayside and within a year or two folks are asking, "Whatever happened to____?".

Just FYI, more than one track we raced at over the years did actually have a full dress clown who drove the pace car, entertained the fans during intermissions and red flag periods and spent time in the stands with the fans. All nothing more than another part of the circus.

Some of the early flagmen were pretty entertaining to watch as well. They would start the cars from the track surface and run to get out of the way of the field coming at them at full throttle. If you want to talk about some really brave guys, ask about some of them. The drivers had nothing on them when it came to bravery.

As has been pointed out in another post, fans are more aware of the changes now, simply because of the increased media and internet coverage of what some would try and pass of as sport. (Some do a very good job of this, too....Don't they? NASCAR especially, has always been nothing more than an entertainment business with the sole purpose being to make money. But then again, isn't that the purpose of all the major league "sports"?)

I was around when Bill France Jr. took over from his father, Winston came on board the same year, the number of races was cut drastically and folks were all singing the very same gloom and doom song we're hearing now. Jr. was going to kill the sport; Jr. didn't have any brains in his head; Jr. this and Jr. that...
Jr. did a pretty fine job of bringing NASCAR from a mostly regional show into the national spotlight and making quite a few other people quite wealthy along with his own family in the process.

Brian France has a colledge education, (in marketing and business, I believe?) has grown up around racing, done everything from parking cars and cleaning the toilets to managing racetracks for the family.
I trust he has much more knowledge about running NASCAR than myself or any of the fans who post on these message boards.

Just one other note here as well:
Perhaps before you all condemn Toyota, you should check to see where your vehicle was manufactured and what companies are creating jobs here in the United States instead of shipping jobs overseas, what companies are investing in new manufacturing facilities and investing in the economy of our country, even if their home office is located in some other land?

Think about it.

Thanks and have a nice day!
 
i dont know hemi, maybe yur name is just a name. but if yur a dodge fan like myself im gonna have to stick up for ya on this one, i know there were quite a few points you made in that statement but the one that caught my eye was the hendrick cry babies. Aint nothin worse then a bunch of little whiners, and thats what jeff, jimmie, and kyle are.
 
Patrick9999 said:
Interesting first post.

If Toyota does get involved and you refuse to watch...don't worry, we'll keep you updated.

The Circus IS the greatest show on earth, after all.
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:beerbang: :beerbang:

gotta agree with you on this and I love the circus..note my avatar... :beerbang: :D
 
emon66 said:
i dont know hemi, maybe yur name is just a name. but if yur a dodge fan like myself im gonna have to stick up for ya on this one, i know there were quite a few points you made in that statement but the one that caught my eye was the hendrick cry babies. Aint nothin worse then a bunch of little whiners, and thats what jeff, jimmie, and kyle are.
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?????? A Rusty fan is calling anyone a whiner???? LOL now that is funny LOL!!!!
 
Well with about 150% more time following NASCAR than you (Hemi) the most I can deduce from your "poll" (or should I say rant?) is that you are pretty narrow minded about what "your sport" has become. :) Let's see about ten years ago I believe NASCAR had this nasty habit of making major rules changes almost weekly. It was their push for common templates and parity. Man, did that stir up sh** among the "old timers". I was one of those "old timers" about then (I'd been a fan about 50% longer at that time than you are at this time)!! You know what? I endured the changes.........the ones that you were most likely very happy about since it got you excited enough to keep following. And now those changes that I thought were so awful and stupid were actually among the best changes for the advancement of the sport......gee, go figure!! :) I can remember a lot of grumbling about NASCAR going to the dogs and threats of leaving the fan base..........I'm not sure how many followed through on those threats, but I can tell you they didn't do a damned thing except miss out on some of the best racing on the planet. Go ahead and find something else to entertain yourself with (and the NASCAR is 100% entertainment for the fans......it's a job for the teams and drivers). We won't miss you now any more now than we missed you ten years ago!! :D

BTW, I did not vote in your poll.
 
Is there a Nascar driver who DOESN'T whine? I've never seen one.
 
i agree with all except #4 and #8. If you want a bunch of whinners take a look at roush...they thinking everyone is cheating if they arent winning. and about the chase, i am not against the chase but there needs to be more of an incintive to win the reg season. They need to give more of a seperation for each position...maybe spread the top 10 over 100 pts instead of 50. Just something
 
hendrick and roush both whine im not saying just hendrick but im tired of people whining period. if you lose you lose. if you get hit then settle it outside the track.

also with that chase it wouldnt be that bad if they rethought it and maybe had about the top 15 or like 500 points or 10 positions or whatever, as well as actually getting something for winning the first part of the season. like like that idea. but the rest of the things I said are true and everyone knows it.
 
I can remember when The King was sometimes the only car on the lead lap in a race. Or 60+ cars started a race.

That does not happen now---teams are much more equal now---discounting plate racing which can disappear as far as I am concerned.

I am not happy about some of the rule changes lately, but the way those changes are done is MUCH better than it used to be.

Folks are whining about changes, whining about Toyota, and whining about whiners. You don't HAVE to watch, you know. :rolleyes: ;)

Oh, and about the Southern tracks that are 'leaving'?? Those tracks are losing---not leaving. NASCAR is taking away their races to give them to the cookie cutter so called SuperSpeedways. I live three miles from the Kansas Speedway and won't waste money on another boring race.
 
What is the matter Hemi. You afraid the Toyoto's are gonna out preform the Dodges. Fords and Chevys. As for Nascar being a American sport so is Baseball. But you almost have to speak a Spainish to say the name of most players. So does that means you don't watch Baseball either.
 
i dont watch baseball because it is boring. football is good. basketball is ok.
we need to get nascar back to its roots in the south on the saturday night short tracks. those races are cool. pretty soon there wont be any left. i live by MIS and i tell you it is boring to watch. its good racing but the track is huge and the race is 200 laps long which takes forever. barely any cautions anymore. these big tracks are just boring. besides a select few.

i know toyota will do good because for one thing look at dodge when they first got into trucks. they capitalized on chevy and fords engines and chassis and aero packages. they took there stuff and made it better. same as for toyota now. they have made better engines and trucks that are pretty nuetral. the majority of the ford and chevy and dodge trucks you see are not the best handeling rig out there. which is why toyota won what 4 or 5 times this year, with drivers that arent the best in the bunch.

the reason i dont want to see toyota get involved is easy. it will create a void in the competitiveness of the series as well as make people spend more money to make there cars/trucks equal to that of toyota. toyota does not have a problem with this because they are a new manufacturer to nascar and have not had earlier models and other aero packages as well as chassis platforms. the other 3 have to spend more money on top of what they have already spent. it wouldnt be too bad if everyones car was equal in pretty much everyway. this is where another idea could come into play. run what ya brung. this wouldnt be a bad idea as long as they had certain restrictions on horsepower limits as well as weight and height and wheel base limits.

you can have a pretty good setup here if you do it right but theres that money thing again. as you see it all depends on who wants to spend the most money.
 
You can't go back to the "roots" without killing the sport. The roots of NASCAR is what your local Saturday night racers are today. The difference is that Bill France wanted more and he worked to make it more.........he never once took a look backward. He looked forward and was successful at building the sport to what it is today. Think about it. If NASCAR went back to it's roots we would have a tight knit group of racers running at local tracks (local tracks being local to a specific area) each Saturday night. Probably a few races in between during the week. There would be an avid following.....but that avid following would fans from the locality where the local racers were racing. There would be no TV coverage........or, at least, very little. Everyone involved would be looking for bigger and better racing........but the locality would not necessarily be able to support bigger and better. There would be no NASCAR........just localized groups of racing teams competing on local tracks for local fans. Guess what!!! We have that right now.........you can go to your local track any Saturday night they compete. Many do..........and they have a ball too.

But that local Saturday night crowd is not NASCAR. It's most certainly not any less exciting or fun......just not NASCAR. NASCAR is where most of those local drivers and teams want to be........they want to move into the big time.

Using the football comparison (which really is no comparison at all), what do you think every high school football player wants to do? Play college? And once they are playing college football, where do you think they want to move next? Would that be professional football? Professional football has it's roots in high school (or Pop Warner) leagues...........should the NFL and AFL get back to it's roots too? I don't watch pro football anymore..........I didn't like what it turned out to be. But I simply stopped being a fan.........I didn't whine about what it turned into, I simply left. Many people love the sport......and I don't. I would never tell those fans that pro football is crapping on it's fans because it forgot it's "roots". That would be beating your head against a very hard wall as far as they were concerned........besides, it's no sweat off my back anyway.

If you don't like the sport or how it's moving..........then just quit it!! It's easy and very painless. Painless unless you are so egotistical as to think it owes you something. It owes you one thing...........entertainment. The entertainment is there. You either like it or you don't. But you can't change it so that you will like it.........you'd be pissing in the wind.
 
There is much wisdom to be gleamed from both Hemi and Wrangler .The new manufactures must not be allowed to take the sport down the F1 path but the good ole days aint never coming back . The technolagy horse is out of the barn Nascar now just has to bridal it .
 
I've followed NASCAR since 1975. That doesn't mean I know more than anyone else, but I have seen a lot over the years. But I'd like to respond to Hemi's comments.

1. Toyota: I'm glad I read your follow up comments about why you don't want them here. I'm glad you're not another narrow-minded person that thinks this is 1948. As far as competitiveness, competition is good. If spending gets out of control, NASCAR will address it. All the other manufacturers have to do is threaten to pull out.

2. Chase: I agree with you on that one for the most part. I took a wait and see approach. I agree the champion should be based on the whole season. But no one can deny the Chase bought some extra excitement this past season.

3. Money: The sport has always been about who has the most money. People in the 70's complained about the Pettys having all that Mopar money. Nothing different now.

4. Whining: Same as previous answer, always been there. Whining will always be a part of racing on any level in any series.

5. Fighting: Fighting was more common years ago than it is now. I'm surprised to see this comment because a number of people want NASCAR to stop interfering. If you think it's bad in NASCAR, go to your local track. :D

6. Point deductions: I agree a driver should not be deducted points for actions or words after a race. It should be for on track or in the car actions or for the teams violating the rules. But NASCAR was consistant in this area. They deducted points for the same thing in Busch earlier in the year. If they gave Jr. a pass, they would have been accused of favoritism.

7., 8. Racing back to the caution, lucky dog: I think drivers should not race back to the caution. It is a safety concern. I don't like the lucky dog and hope they do away with it.

9. Rules: This is the first year in a long time I can remember not major rules changes were made during the season. They made the cars based off a common template and I think that has worked. It was refreshing not to hear all the politicing from the teams that are getting whipped.

NASCAR is not perfect. They are changing a number of things, some for the better and some for worse. I still enjoy it and they are a lot more competitive than F-1 and many other major series.
 
"I've followed NASCAR since 1975. That doesn't mean I know more than anyone else,"

THAT is one of the more intelligent things I've read on here in a while - my own ramblings, musings and typos included.
 
The race between Cale & Donnie (fight) brought racing to the attention of people across America. DE, SR brought racing to a frenzy, not JR. Jr just picked up where his Dad left off and NASTYCAR is using his youth to capture the younger generation for their own purpo$e$.
 
hotshoe said:
The race between Cale & Donnie (fight) brought racing to the attention of people across America. DE, SR brought racing to a frenzy, not JR. Jr just picked up where his Dad left off and NASTYCAR is using his youth to capture the younger generation for their own purpo$e$.
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I agree........and what's more I see no harm in it either. You got a hot commodity you run with it. NASCAR has been pretty good at running with the things that will further the sport. Ain't a damned thing wrong with success.
 
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