Nascar Fixed

Is Nascar fixed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 4 28.6%

  • No

    Votes: 6 42.9%

  • I think so

    Votes: 1 7.1%

  • I don't know

    Votes: 3 21.4%
  • Total voters
    14
lol i voted i think so thinking it said i dont think so lol what a bummer...anyways no io dont think nascar is fixed..it couldn't
 
I just wanted to know your opinion of this because I have seen acticles about it more and more lately.
 
Red Flag Decision Causes Controversy at Darlington

Dateline: 09/05/01

When Jimmy Spencer said it after the Pepsi 400, I scoffed. The very idea that NASCAR would "fix" a race seemed absurd. Yet more and more drivers are starting to suggest that the results are being "orchestrated" by the officials, and this thought deeply disturbs me. If the results of races are being manipulated, then the events become nothing more than exhibitions of speed, not sports. It moves from the "major leagues" down to the level of the WWF, and that would be a shame.

Now just so I don't offend the "rassling" fans, there's nothing wrong with the WWF. It puts on a good show, but it's not wrestling. There's a difference between a show and a sport, and NASCAR needs to realize that fact. And if NASCAR is truly doing what is suggested, then it trivializes the lives of drivers like Dale Earnhardt, Adam Petty and Kenny Irwin. It would mean that they died, not in pursuit of victory, but pursuit of the entertainment dollar, and that is a crime.

Do I want to believe that the results of a race are predetermined? No, but when drivers such as Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and Ricky Rudd join the chorus of those who say there's something wrong, they must be taken seriously. Dale Junior was the most vocal of the drivers when he said, "It's the dumbest **** I've ever seen! That's staged. That's rigged. It's ridiculous. That's what you get when you get red flags, you get wrecks." Perhaps it was just sour grapes. He went from a top five finish to 17th as a result of another accident that caused the race to end under caution. Maybe he wanted a scapegoat and NASCAR was the convenient one. But from what I know of his character, I seriously doubt that.

Why then the red flag? The answer to this question appears to lie in the philosophy that fans don't want a race to end under caution. If a race can end in a three or four lap shootout, then fan interest is peaked and NASCAR profits in the ratings. And if a couple of wrecks can be thrown in for good measure, then the day has been a success. If this was the motivation for stopping the race, it is ironic that it backfired. The race ended under a yellow flag anyway.

No one faults NASCAR for stopping a race when a major accident happens, as did at Daytona when Tony Stewart went airborne and landed on top of his team mate Bobby Labonte. Along the way a total of 19 cars were involved in one way or another. But for a wreck such as this one, the need wasn't apparent. The yellow could have been thrown and the track cleaned up within two or three laps. Then we would have had the shootout, but the drivers would not have been sitting for over eight minutes waiting, wondering how their cars would respond after the long wait. After all, caution laps are different than sitting and waiting. As different as wrestling is from rassling. It's time for NASCAR to make up its mind what it wants to be, a sport or an exhibition of speed and daring. There is no in between.
 
Johnsonchamp48 said:
I just wanted to know your opinion of this because I have seen acticles about it more and more lately.
Click to expand...
And, the article you post is dated in 2001???? :confused:

I have a request............ If you are going to post an article, please post the link to the online article. Thanks.
 
dale jr should stay put...just caused he's 17 in the standings right now doesn't mean something is wrong..oh yeah there is something wrong WITH YOU i mean just because you're doing terrible and probably wont be making the chase dont mean you gotta come with some stupid idea as to nascar been orchastrated..that is the dumbest thing i've seen dale jr do...disapoinment..:(

^ lol i just notice dthat the article is from way back...but still..lol
 
I think we argued this to death about 4 years ago. Hard to believe anyone would think it's some recent news.

No........NASCAR doesn't fix races. No, they don't manipulate cautions to get a desired result. Yes, they were somewhat inconsistent back in 2001 about throwing a red flag near the end of a race...........but, yes, they have attempted to fix that with the one shot at a "green-white-checkered" rule.

Some polls are nothing but bait.........this sure comes close.
 
There is no substance to this poll. NASCAR is not fixed. Period. Favoritism? Sure but you get that with every sport.
 
Well well well. Here we go again. Let me ask this, if NASCAR is fixed, what difference does it make. Honestly, would it really make a difference? I mean you root for who you like and I root for who I like and as long as neither of us know what the outcome is supposed to be, what difference does it make? If you believe that NASCAR knows your choice and is bound and determined that you, personally will never win, then I can understand your point, but otherwise, it's just the same old crap from whiney losers asking if or saying that the sport is fixed. Mr fan of Jimmy Johnson, here's something that you might try. Wait until the end of the season and then pick the winner and then you can holler and whoop it up and celebrate that your man won. Let all those losers out there who continue to pick a driver who NASCAR doesn't want to win whine. At least you will then be a winner and we can be rid of you. But once again, if NASCAR is fixed, what the hell difference does it make?
 
buckaroo said:
if NASCAR is fixed, what the hell difference does it make?
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it makes big difference, but hopefully that's not the case :)
 
^ I agree it does make a difference, a BIG difference.
If it is fixed, which its not, they are really good at keeping it a secret, unlike WWE.
 
Okay, tell me what difference it makes. Unless you are a team owner/driver, it doesn't make one bit of difference. The sport is all about entertainment and it's heading more and more in that direction. As long as the fans see what looks to be a competitive race with the outcome only known to those who are involved, what difference does it make? Now I'm not one who believes that it's fixed, but it doesn't make a difference to me if it is, as long as it's kept quiet as well as they are doing so. But once again, tell me what difference it makes as long as you don't know for sure the outcome.

NASCAR is having several problems or directions that many fans don't like. First off, and this isn't anything new, it appears to be fixed. That is nothing compared to what the other problem or direction of the sport. That is that it's quickly becoming what Formula 1 has become and that is, money running the sport. The old days of bootleggers racing and wild men in those machines are long gone. Though that is what made the sport exciting, it changed when it began costing more than those old mechanics could swing and that forced them to find sponsors who would help them in their quest. That my friends, is what opened the door to what we have today.
 
It doesn't really matter if there would be a difference or not, because NASCAR is NOT fixed.
 
It obviously makes a difference buckaroo because if it didn't make a difference you wouldn't have gone into such length telling us that it doesn't make a difference.
 
Hey Buck and Smoke............ya'll notice you are arguing on the same side? :D But, here's my two pennies on fixing a race: It can't be done for mainly two reasons. 1 and probably the most important reason.......ain't a sponsor in the world that would lay out as much money as they lay out only to have the sanctioning body tell them they had to finish behind some other car with a different sponsor. NASCAR would cease to exist overnight the first time that happened. And second, which is based on the first........a fixed race would be so obvious to everyone that not only would the sponsors run like hell away from NASCAR, so would the fans!!

Conspiracy folks need to come up with something plausible.........the fixing of races never was and still is not plausible. :beerbang: :beerbang:
 
That's ridiculous! Nascar is not fixed! Why the hell would it be?
 
I put this out not as proof that NASCAR is fixed but to set straight the comparisons to the WWE.
The WWE (WWWF, WWF) had kept its secrets that wrestling was fixed until Chairman and owner Vince McMahon was charged with drug trafficking, namely steriods. The WWE had held itself out as a Sport up until that point. To escape from being found guilty VinnieMac let the cat out of the bag. The sport of wrestling was really sports entertainment. The outcomes were predetermined. Remember up until that point kayfabe lived. The wrestlers held the line and the people believed what they saw. Wrestlers, the bad guys, were often attacked at the arenas and outside the arenas. Security had to be provided for their safety. Once the people were let in on the secret that hatred and animosity pretty much went away. The WWE survived the revelation and even prospered. The WCW and ECW went under. Not due to kayfabe being dead but due to mismanagement. Money was and is the driving force.

Could this apply to NASCAR. Possibly. You say there is no way that the drivers could keep the secret from getting out. There were a lot more wrestlers for a lot longer period of time that kept the secret. In Cup you don't have to have all 43 drivers in on the fix. On any given Sunday how many actually have a chance of winning. Really have a chance. Sure, there may be a dark horse once in a while that pulls off the upset. But, that only keeps the paying public coming back for more and can be held up as proof that it is not fixed. Even if you are at the race in person there is no way you can keep up with everything that is happening. Watching on TV, forget about it. You see what they want to show you. Debris, penalties for speeding on pit road, etc. they can always show you something that will make you believe if you want to believe.

Is NASCAR fixed? Probably not. But, the possiblily exists. And it is within the realm of believability. Many of the drivers make a very good living racing. Even the "back markers" do OK. Money will do strange things to people. Even large groups.

So the real question is does kayfabe exist within racing? Are the fans being manipulated to part with their money while they elevate drivers to superstar status? ;)
 
I'm with those who say 'so what?'. NASCAR is an entertainment business. No question about it. Some made references to the WWE. They sell more tickets now than ever. Yet, everybody knows it's choreographed and 'fixed'. Makes no difference. The bottom line is, and will remain, money.

Just my 2 cents. :)
 
i dont think its fixed....i do however think they have too much control in what goes on....the lack of consistancy in rules plays in the favors of some teams but not for others...they do tend to show favortism at times.

NA$CAR is more entertainment than racing.....they understand that and will do whatever it takes to win the almighty $
 
DE_Wrangler_2 said:
Hey Buck and Smoke............ya'll notice you are arguing on the same side? :D But, here's my two pennies on fixing a race: It can't be done for mainly two reasons. 1 and probably the most important reason.......ain't a sponsor in the world that would lay out as much money as they lay out only to have the sanctioning body tell them they had to finish behind some other car with a different sponsor. NASCAR would cease to exist overnight the first time that happened. And second, which is based on the first........a fixed race would be so obvious to everyone that not only would the sponsors run like hell away from NASCAR, so would the fans!!

Conspiracy folks need to come up with something plausible.........the fixing of races never was and still is not plausible. :beerbang: :beerbang:
Click to expand...

truthful words.... :lurk:
 
Do we have to come up with anything more contrived than they are thinking about including the "most popular driver" as voted by the fans in the Chase as being the "fans" choice. Next year they'll probably include whoever the "fans" vote as the "sexiest" driver.

They feel compelled to put on a good show. If the product stinks tickets remain unsold, eyeballs turn to different channels and the bottom line suffers. If you don't think they are trying out different things to attract as large an audience (goodbye Rock, Darlington, etc.) for a quick buck then you my friend need to sit quietly in the corner. Someone will be by for you soon. The rules changes, the tracks they go to, the qualifying, all of it is an attempt to bring in more fans. I'm not saying that's a bad thing but it's not your father's NASCAR anymore either.
 
barelypure said:
I put this out not as proof that NASCAR is fixed but to set straight the comparisons to the WWE.
The WWE (WWWF, WWF) had kept its secrets that wrestling was fixed until Chairman and owner Vince McMahon was charged with drug trafficking, namely steriods. The WWE had held itself out as a Sport up until that point. To escape from being found guilty VinnieMac let the cat out of the bag. The sport of wrestling was really sports entertainment. The outcomes were predetermined. Remember up until that point kayfabe lived. The wrestlers held the line and the people believed what they saw. Wrestlers, the bad guys, were often attacked at the arenas and outside the arenas. Security had to be provided for their safety. Once the people were let in on the secret that hatred and animosity pretty much went away. The WWE survived the revelation and even prospered. The WCW and ECW went under. Not due to kayfabe being dead but due to mismanagement. Money was and is the driving force.



Could this apply to NASCAR. Possibly. You say there is no way that the drivers could keep the secret from getting out. There were a lot more wrestlers for a lot longer period of time that kept the secret. In Cup you don't have to have all 43 drivers in on the fix. On any given Sunday how many actually have a chance of winning. Really have a chance. Sure, there may be a dark horse once in a while that pulls off the upset. But, that only keeps the paying public coming back for more and can be held up as proof that it is not fixed. Even if you are at the race in person there is no way you can keep up with everything that is happening. Watching on TV, forget about it. You see what they want to show you. Debris, penalties for speeding on pit road, etc. they can always show you something that will make you believe if you want to believe.

Is NASCAR fixed? Probably not. But, the possiblily exists. And it is within the realm of believability. Many of the drivers make a very good living racing. Even the "back markers" do OK. Money will do strange things to people. Even large groups.

So the real question is does kayfabe exist within racing? Are the fans being manipulated to part with their money while they elevate drivers to superstar status? ;)
Click to expand...

But you might be surprised at how many are sitting in that grnadstands at a WWE match that you can't convince that it is acting. They would fight you if you told then The Undertaker was not the real deal. The same way of Nascar fans. If you told them that Petty's 200th win was given to him. So he could hit the 200 mark and Pres. Reagan was in the croud and he happen to be a Richard Petty fan. Man there would be a killing.
:D
 
Barelypure, very well put. Here's a story that a former coworker of mine told me some years ago. Bobby fielded cars for the Goody's Dash series which was sanctioned by NASCAR and he has had several of the big name drivers drive for him. He told me that at times, NASCAR would come around to him and his team and tell them what was going to be inspected on his car. In other words, they were telling him what they wouldn't be inspecting as well. This wasn't the same for every car in the field so while they might not inspect his car for a certain object or what, they probably would check other cars. Kind of a heads up things from NASCAR. He told me that other times, NASCAR would come around to various teams and tell them that such and such was to happen and that the teams should work it out as to how it was done. He never told me that they would tell them who was supposed to win, but if things went the way that was suggested, it was clear that certain teams would have a clear advantage. Of course, things happen on the track that aren't expected and so sometimes, the plans went ary, but most of the times, things went the way they were supposed to go. He told me that it was very seldom that NASCAR would come around like this and he thought that it only happened when they, NASCAR, wanted to shake up the sport. Bobby also fielded a Busch car a couple of years but he never told me that they did the same in that series.

I've heard rumors that the inspection thing is still happening in the Cup series, but I don't have any friends who've been involved in that so I can't say that it does happen.

The France's run a pretty tight ship and a story by Larry MacReynolds tells a lot. He talked about the time that when he was wrenching for RCR and Skinner that Mike wrecked his car. When the wrecker came by and picked up the car to take it to the garage, they did some damage to the hood of the car. Larry jumped all over the guys who did the towing. Later after the race, Larry was called on the carpet. He tells of how he began to complain about what was happening to his car when he was interupted by Big Bill France who asked him if he made a nice living doing what he did? Yes Larry answered and then Bill said that it's nice that they all make a good living with the sport. Larry pretty much got the idea and that was the end of it all. I believe that the sport has become what it is due to the strict governing body of the sport and it doesn't matter what others think, whether it's the owners, drivers or fans, they (NASCAR) will do what they see fit. Is the sport fixed? I doubt it, but once again, I ask, who cares. If it is fixed and it ever gets out, the sport will die quickly and all those who won titles will be tainted for ever, or until people forget about the sport. But one thing is for certain, those France people sure know how to generate some controversy and it does nothing but inhance the sport.
 
If so, Goodyear must be involved with the conspiracy. Handing out junk tires to those selected drivers with agressive left wheel negative camber.
Yeah...yeah, that's it!
 
barelypure said:
Is NASCAR fixed? Probably not. But, the possiblily exists. And it is within the realm of believability. Many of the drivers make a very good living racing. Even the "back markers" do OK. Money will do strange things to people. Even large groups.
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So you're telling me and everyone here that the possibility exists for NASCAR being fixed? You expect me and everyone here to believe that Home Depot, Budweiser, DeWalt Tools, Cingular Wireless, All Tel, Dodge Corporation, Sprint, Nextel, Interstate Batteries, Napa, and many other sponsors all fork over millions each year in sponsorship money just to have the Frances and NASCAR dictate who's going to win or place well in a race? I just can't believe Home Depot would put a car on the track for 15 million and stand quietly as Lowe's takes the cake...........maybe you should go sit in a corner and someone will be along shortly. :)

It ain't even close to being the realm of believability. :rolleyes:
 
^ again...i agreed with you.

its unthinkable to think that there is even a posibility of NASCAR been fixed. if so at some point it would've been known by now trust me.
 
Like I have said all along. Favoritism and Criticism in NASCAR can be your friend and your enemy.
 
DE_Wrangler_2 said:
So you're telling me and everyone here that the possibility exists for NASCAR being fixed? You expect me and everyone here to believe that Home Depot, Budweiser, DeWalt Tools, Cingular Wireless, All Tel, Dodge Corporation, Sprint, Nextel, Interstate Batteries, Napa, and many other sponsors all fork over millions each year in sponsorship money just to have the Frances and NASCAR dictate who's going to win or place well in a race? I just can't believe Home Depot would put a car on the track for 15 million and stand quietly as Lowe's takes the cake...........maybe you should go sit in a corner and someone will be along shortly. :)

It ain't even close to being the realm of believability. :rolleyes:
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Those companies want their names to be seen on race cars and TV. They measure the effectiveness of the money spend on auto racing, among many other forms of advertisements. Wins alone do not sell their products.
Do you think Bud sales are down this year because you-know-who is not winning?
Besides, do you know for sure what goes on in boardrooms of these and other companies? It sure ain't Sunday School. :growl:
 
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