Nascar Points Proposal: 10-Race Dash For Title

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NASCAR points proposal: 10-race dash for title
By Chris Jenkins, USA TODAY
NASCAR officials are considering radical changes to the way they crown their champion for 2004, which could result in a 10-team sprint to the championship in the final 10 races of the season — essentially creating a racing postseason.

The man who would be champ? Jimmie Johnson would have sealed the 2003 title under a proposed NASCAR system.
By Ed Zurga, AP

NASCAR spokesman Jim Hunter said Monday that officials are "seriously considering" the plan that would freeze the top-10 drivers in the standings with 10 races left and reset their points totals to zero.

The driver among those 10 who scores the most points in the last 10 races would win the title; the driver who scores the least would finish 10th in the standings. Drivers ranking outside the top 10 with 10 races to go would not be eligible to win the title or finish in the top 10 in points but would keep racing.

NASCAR also may change the way it awards points in each race. Race winners would earn more points than they do now, and a few bad finishes wouldn't be as devastating to a driver's championship chances. The changes, if any, will be announced in January.

A twist to title chase

Under NASCAR's proposed 10-driver, 10-race "postseason" plan, there would have been a different champion in 2003, Jimmie Johnson, and champion Matt Kenseth would have finished ninth. Here are the different standings based on current race-by-race points system — which may change in 2004, as well:

2003 Top 10

1. Matt Kenseth
2. Jimmie Johnson
3. Dale Earnhardt Jr.
4. Jeff Gordon
5. Kevin Harvick
6. Ryan Newman
7. Tony Stewart
8. Bobby Labonte
9. Bill Elliott
10. Terry Labonte

Under "postseason" system

1. Jimmie Johnson
2. Tony Stewart
3. Bill Elliott
4. Jeff Gordon
5. Ryan Newman
6. Kevin Harvick
7. Dale Earnhardt Jr.
8. Bobby Labonte
9. Matt Kenseth
10. Terry Labonte






NASCAR officials aren't generally known for their willingness to make drastic changes. So why are they considering the current proposal that would establish what amounts to a 10-driver, 10-race postseason in 2004?

A look at some factors NASCAR is considering as it examines ways to revamp the Nextel Cup points system:

• Attention. Mainstream sports fans are drawn to the NFL, baseball playoffs and college football in the fall, and having an anti-climactic points race, a frequent result of the current system, doesn't help NASCAR.

"We're trying to shine a bigger spotlight on our drivers in the stretch run of our championship," NASCAR spokesman Jim Hunter says.

• Criticism of a system that favors consistency over winning. Points champion Matt Kenseth won only one race this season, and Ryan Newman finished sixth in the standings despite his eight victories.

In six of the last 10 seasons, the driver who won the most races did not win the title.

• Timing. Several changes already are planned for 2004; officials are introducing new rules to encourage side-by-side racing, and cell phone provider Nextel is taking over title sponsorship of NASCAR's top series from Winston, a cigarette maker.

NASCAR might face a tough sales job to its fans. While Hunter says the changes have elicited positive responses in fan focus groups, a poll on a fan Web site, jayski.com, had nearly 56% of respondents say the system shouldn't be changed. Of those who thought it should be, fewer than 5% favored the radical proposal.
 
Please, God. I don't ask You for much in this life. But I'm begging now. Please don't do this. Strike a France dead if need be. But please don't let them do anything else to ruin this sport.


Has no one else noticed the obvious here? Other sports have playoffs, but they also don't have the eliminated teams on the field while they are playing those games. The Super Bowl does not have two teams playing to win it while 30 others are out there just trying to score.


What a mess. Just KILLS people that Matt won the points, don't it?
 
Originally posted by EatMorePossum@Dec 9 2003, 01:51 PM
What a mess. Just KILLS people that Matt won the points, don't it?
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One more time........NO, not for all of us. I am certainly not one of Kenseth's top number one fans, but I like him. And, please, it's not even the Ford vs. Chevy, ect.......BS that has anything to do with it in my mind either. Kenseth won, nothing will change it. Someone else will most likely win in 2004, 2005, 2006. Parity has certainly played its role.

Your opinions and mileage may vary. ;)
 
I think this is just speculation and rumor. IMHO, it won't happen.

Consistency won the Championship for Matt, and that's ALL that should matter.....
 
I saw an article that basically said that NASCAR was back-peddaling on afore mentioned plans to perhaps give the race winner more points and etc.,so I very much doubt if IMO such a rediculous plan like this one would be adopted,I certainly hope not,it stinks,JMO ;) :eek:

I'm in favor of awarding the race winner 10 more points,so that the 2nd place finisher could not receive the same 180 points,by leading the most laps,as the winner,this never seemed right to Me,but some slight tweaking is a far cry from this projected wholesale change,it would make for poorer racing frolm early September through November by the 11th place and worse drivers in the point standings after the cut-off race,also it would leave out some drivers each year that otherwise would have finished top10,if not top5 or even won the Championship under the current system.I'm against it,but don;t really believe there's any merit to such a haphazard plan anyway.
 
Lets hope this is just a lot of talk and it never gets implemented.
 
This is rediculous. How short sighted is this view. To change the system this much would be just throwing history out the window. This championship has always been about consistancy. They didn't change it when gordon won 10 races and didn't win the championship. Just because everything now a day is because of short attention spans. How long will it be that there will be monster truck races during cautions. "have to keep them entertained!"
 
Points System is not gonna change anytime soon; The France's don't do anything quick unless somebody is or will be injured...Hey it's good to see 'Bald down under again' ! B)
 
Heaven help us all if anything even remotely like this nightmare should happen!!!

There is nothing wrong with the points system as they stand to this day!
Consistancy is rewarded and that is the way it should be.
The guy that finishes the race first already gets the most points
.PLEASSSSSSSSSSSSSE, don't try to fix what ain't broke!!!!!
 
I see their point in wanting to make the end of the season more interesting. It would certainly help ratings at the end of the year. But, I can't help but wonder how ratings would be among fans who's favorite driver was out of the top ten and had no shot at all to move up.

Also the last few races before the "playoff" could see driver's who had locked up a spot in the top 10 coast or even (God forbid) sit out a race or two to prepare for the stretch run.

With a firm sence of NASCAR tradition and history in mind, I personally would not mind this idea nearly as much as some of you would. ^_^
 
I wouldnt mind, it could set an example onto the College Football people. I wouldnt mind trying something new, however, I wonder whats going to happen to all those other 33 drivers and teams, will they just load their cars in the trailers and go home? Maybe. :huh:
 
Originally posted by Happy29@Dec 9 2003, 06:23 PM
I wonder whats going to happen to all those other 33 drivers and teams, will they just load their cars in the trailers and go home? Maybe.
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Like the guy in 11th in points after 26 races now has a chance at the championship? Yet, he still shows up for all the races and tries his best to win.

The other 33 cars would be out there every week trying to win the races, that is what they would be doing.
 
Originally posted by TonyB@Dec 9 2003, 11:37 PM
Like the guy in 11th in points after 26 races now has a chance at the championship? Yet, he still shows up for all the races and tries his best to win.

The other 33 cars would be out there every week trying to win the races, that is what they would be doing.
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That is exactly what I was thinking. At least 30 teams go to the track every week knowing they don't have a snowballs chance in the desert. They still show up and they still try their hardest every week. They still have a chance to win that race and that is all most driver's have in the first place. ^_^
 
This could be the second biggest joke in all of sports. The first NASCAR already owns the "Lucky Dog Pass." Maybe NASCAR is shooting to have all the stupid rules.
 
Hey maybe they could get a system like the BCS where derrick cope or maybe even morgan shepard would have a chance :p
 
Our National Champion would be crowned on the basis of schedule rank :lol:
 
The guy that finishes the race first already gets the most points


This is in error,look at My earlier post that explains how the 2nd place finsiher,by keading the most laps,can get 180 points while the winner gets just 180 points,the only difference is in the monetary winnings when this circumstance happens,and it happens somewhat frequently,it's my main gripe about the current points system ;)
 
Knowyournascar.com posted this today.

NASCAR: Points change not a 'trial balloon'
By Lee Montgomery, Turner Sports Interactive
December 10, 2003
If you think NASCAR's new proposal to alter the points standings is a joke, think again.

If you think NASCAR is simply floating a "trial balloon," think again.

No, NASCAR is serious about a new system where the top 10 drivers, or perhaps more, would be locked in with 10 races to go, and those 10 would compete in a "postseason" to determine the champion.

Whoever among the top 10 scores the most points in the final 10 races would win the title, while all other drivers are simply racing for 11th place. A radical idea? Sure, but NASCAR isn't joking around.

"It's definitely more than a trial balloon," NASCAR communications director Mike Zizzo said Tuesday. "We've been looking at different scenarios for the past several months regarding the points system.

"We're seriously considering the system we've been discussing of late. We've talked to owners, we've talked to drivers, we've talked with our management team, our competition folks -- we're looking at this very seriously."

The actual points distribution wouldn't change much, Zizzo said.

Matt Kenseth won the 2003 championship in a runaway, clinching the title with one race to go. But under the proposed system, Kenseth would have finished seventh, with Jimmie Johnson winning the title by scoring the most points in the final 10 races.

Johnson, who said Tuesday he was not in favor of the proposed system, finished second to Kenseth in the actual standings.

Had the system been in place this year, Kenseth, Dale Earnhardt Jr., Kevin Harvick, Jimmie Johnson, Jeff Gordon, Ryan Newman, Bobby Labonte, Kurt Busch, Terry Labonte and Michael Waltrip would have raced for the championship, as they were the top-10 drivers after the Chevy Rock & Roll 400 at Richmond, the season's 26th race.

Johnson would have beaten teammate Jeff Gordon by 55 points, based on six consecutive top-three finishes to close the season. As it was, Johnson fell 90 points short of Kenseth, mostly because Kenseth blew an engine and finished last in the final race of the season.

The idea, Zizzo said, is to create added excitement.

"It would create a playoff atmosphere for us that would be similar to other sports," Zizzo said.

The Busch Series and Craftsman Truck Series titles came down to the final race. Six drivers were eligible for the Busch title, with Brian Vickers beating David Green by 14 points.

Travis Kvapil won the NCTS championship by nine points over Dennis Setzer, with fourth-place Brendan Gaughan -- who led into the final race but crashed -- 40 points behind in fourth.

Zizzo said the target date for picking a points system is mid-January. NASCAR holds testing at Daytona International Speedway in January, with the Nextel Cup cars testing Jan. 6-8 and Jan. 13-15.

There are some other minor changes being considered. For instance, if a driver is close enough to the top 10, he could be included in the race for the championship.

"Say they're 50 points out of first place, and they're in 11th or 12th place, we might extend that window of people who are eligible," Zizzo said.

If such a system was in place in 2003 - without the added provision -- neither defending Winston Cup champion Tony Stewart nor Bill Elliott would have been able to scramble inside the top 10.

Also, more points could be awarded to the winner. That was one of the criticisms this year, as Kenseth won only one race, while Ryan Newman won a series-leading eight but finished sixth in the points.

"(We're) still considering that," Zizzo said.

And that could be included in the new system.

"The scoring system as you know it will virtually stay the same, outside of a couple of tweaks - if we go with them - such as giving more points to the race winner, and even possibly scoring the same amount of points for some of the finishers at the tail end," Zizzo said.

For example, positions 35th through 43rd could receive the same number of points. That would help alleviate some problems caused by slower cars returning to the track after an accident, just to try to pick up one or two positions.

"If you look at it, you've got cars going out there just to score points, so they're just running around," Zizzo said.

To go along with that, NASCAR is considering raising the minimum speed at each track, Zizzo said.

Analysis of the final standings since 1975 -- the first year the points system was used -- showed that 13 of the 29 champions would have been different:

The first was in 1980, when Cale Yarborough would've added a fourth title, winning instead of Dale Earnhardt -- who claimed the first of his seven titles that season.

Darrell Waltrip would have made it three consecutive titles in 1983, winning instead of Bobby Allison.

Harry Gant would have won two championships, the first in 1984 instead of Terry Labonte, and the second in 1991, denying Dale Earnhardt.

Earnhardt would have also been denied in 1987 by Bill Elliott and in 1993 by Rusty Wallace.

Kyle Petty would have won his only championship in 1992 instead of Alan Kulwicki.

Other changes: Earnhardt, and not Jeff Gordon, would have won in 1995; Gordon, and not Terry Labonte, would have won in 1996; Jarrett, and not Gordon, would have won in 1997; Bobby Labonte, and not Jarrett, would have won in 1999; Sterling Marlin, and not Gordon, would have won in 2001; and Johnson, and not Kenseth, would have won, in 2003.

The biggest loser would have been Earnhardt, who would have been a four-time champion instead of a seven-time champ. And Gordon would have only two titles and not four.

The champions who remained the same were in 1975 (Richard Petty), 1976-78 (all Cale Yarborough), 1979 (Petty), 1981-82, '85 (all Waltrip), 1986 (Earnhardt), 1988 (Elliott), 1989 (Rusty Wallace), 1990, '94 (Earnhardt), 1998 (Gordon), 2000 (Bobby Labonte) and 2002 (Tony Stewart).

But that's all speculation, of course. NASCAR hasn't decided yet.

"There are a lot of options," Zizzo said. "We want to investigate every different option."

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
 
What is this all about folks? Tradition? Fear of change? What is the big deal here? Has there ever been anyone with the current points system go from 11th and win the Cup? Doubt it. So in effect you are not cheating others out of it. I am sure that 11th through 25th would still get paid. Wiping the slate clean for the last ten races IMO will eliminate those that like to point race on their way to the championship. Shuffle it up. Starting in 2005 have your last 10 races consist of varying type of tracks, including short, super, road courses, etc. In the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. the excitement level dramatically rises in the playoffs. See it being no different in NASCAR.


Fox is warming up to the idea
 
Oh boy this doesn't sound good, i really dread this ever happens.
 
Has there ever been anyone with the current points system go from 11th and win the Cup? Doubt it. So in effect you are not cheating others out of it.
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i just dont like how this system punishes the top team for being good all year, winner up to that point should get 25% of all the money that nextel is putting up, then after the playoff the rest of the money should be split up 40% left goes to that winner, then so on, thats the only way i would agree with this playoff idea, the winner of the first part of the season needs to be given a good chunk of money to be awarded for what they did, instead of penalizing them for being good then evening everyone up to create drama for tv, cause thats all it is, i hope they do this and the winner blows everyone out still.
 
I have now seen this on local and national news, Im starting to think this actually may be used. Scarey
 
Darby or someone said that this would put more emphasis on the winning. However, a driver could win the first 26 races of the season and still not win the championship. Could you imagine what would happen if a popular driver like earnhardt won about 7 of the first 26 races and had the points lead by 300 points after 26 races , and then lost the championship to someone who wins one race in the final 10 ?? This idea is stupid and unfair to all involved. Funny thing is, they don't care about the long time nascar audience. On Nascar.com they had a poll on this & 80% were against it. If this goes through, it will definitely change the way I spend my sundays from now on. I've had it with the boss hoggs ruining my favorite sport . :dual9mm:
 
[/QUOTE]This idea is stupid and unfair to all involved. Funny thing is, they don't care about the long time nascar audience. On Nascar.com they had a poll on this & 80% were against it. If this goes through, it will definitely change the way I spend my sundays from now on.
And I couldn't agree more!!!!!
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Originally posted by Happy29@Dec 14 2003, 04:03 AM
I just found an interesting article over at Racing Press on this playoff subject:

NASCAR's new 'playoff' idea popular only with the suits
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Exactly, It does'nt matter if every NASCAR fan says no, if NEXTEL and the execs say they want it, it will happen regaurdless what the fan wants and if NASCAR starts listening to the big wigs instead of the fans that will be a big mistake for NASCAR cause it's the fans who made NASCAR what it is today.
 
Somebody is on drugs. It's nutty that this even needs discussion.
 
Originally posted by N2racin88@Dec 11 2003, 01:36 PM
What is this all about folks?  Tradition?  Fear of change?  What is the big deal here?  Has there ever been anyone with the current points system go from 11th and win the Cup? Doubt it.  So in effect you are not cheating others out of it.  I am sure that 11th through 25th would still get paid.  Wiping the slate clean for the last ten races IMO will eliminate those that like to point race on their way to the championship.  Shuffle it up.  Starting in 2005 have your last 10 races consist of varying type of tracks,  including short, super, road courses, etc.  In the NFL, MLB, NBA, etc. the excitement level dramatically rises in the playoffs.  See it being no different in NASCAR.   


Fox is warming up to the idea
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How can one compare the stick and ball venues and competition structure to that of NASCAR Cup racing? This is worse than an apples to oragnes comparison. Why would 11~43 even show up?. Hey, maybe during the worls series and super bowls, they should have all the other losers out on the field at the same time? That would be as exciting.
 
Originally posted by EatMorePossum@Dec 9 2003, 02:51 PM
Has no one else noticed the obvious here? Other sports have playoffs, but they also don't have the eliminated teams on the field while they are playing those games. The Super Bowl does not have two teams playing to win it while 30 others are out there just trying to score.


What a mess. Just KILLS people that Matt won the points, don't it?
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Yes...and Yes there are a lot who ca't stand how the 17 won.
 
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