Discussion: Good old days vs. new style racing

Mopardh9

Mopardh9

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DIDIT said:
Interesting that a typical F1 budget is north of 400 million. Makes NASCAR seem like a local dirt track budget.

I honestly believe I enjoy NASCAR as much today as I did back in its "heyday". I think this constriction is a good thing for the fans.
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You seriously enjoy the racing just as much as you did back 30 years ago?
 
Mopardh9 said:
You seriously enjoy the racing just as much as you did back 30 years ago?
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I consider the "heyday" period late 90s early 2000s, about 20 years ago. If you are talking about the 70s and 80s, then no I don't enjoy the racing as much as that period.
 
DIDIT said:
I consider the "heyday" period late 90s early 2000s, about 20 years ago. If you are talking about the 70s and 80s, then no I don't enjoy the racing as much as that period.
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In all of those prior decades, there were some great races, some good ones, some average, and some were bad. That remains true today. Fortunately, the mediocre races are more rare now, and the great races are more frequent now, compared to the 70's, 80's, and 90's. There are more top quality entries now and fewer races where one guy is half a lap ahead of second place. Just my $0.02.
 
LewTheShoe said:
In all of those prior decades, there were some great races, some good ones, some average, and some were bad. That remains true today. Fortunately, the mediocre races are more rare now, and the great races are more frequent now, compared to the 70's, 80's, and 90's. There are more top quality entries now and fewer races where one guy is half a lap ahead of second place. Just my $0.02.
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I agree. When I look back I think what I miss the most was watching the drivers wheel the cars around the tracks lap after lap flirting with real danger. I have a lot of respect for today's drivers as well.

But back to my original post, I was saying I enjoy "NASCAR" more today than in its "heyday". What I am trying to say is that going to the races is much less of an ordeal and is much more affordable than 20 years ago. With social media we really get to see and hear about our favorite drivers almost on a daily basis and we have great forums like this board to help us stay abreast of new developments and opinions.
I don't think I would give this all up just to go back in time...even the 70's and 80's.
 
DIDIT said:
I agree. When I look back I think what I miss the most was watching the drivers wheel the cars around the tracks lap after lap flirting with real danger. I have a lot of respect for today's drivers as well.

But back to my original post, I was saying I enjoy "NASCAR" more today than in its "heyday". What I am trying to say is that going to the races is much less of an ordeal and is much more affordable than 20 years ago. With social media we really get to see and hear about our favorite drivers almost on a daily basis and we have great forums like this board to help us stay abreast of new developments and opinions.
I don't think I would give this all up just to go back in time...even the 70's and 80's.
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keeping up with Nascar by going to the grocery store and buying Circle Track magazine..ah yes the good ol days
 
StandOnIt said:
keeping up with Nascar by going to the grocery store and buying Circle Track magazine..ah yes the good ol days
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For me it was coming home from high school to get the newest weekly Winston Cup Scene out of the mailbox. When I started reading it in May 1983, it was still Grand National Scene. My very first issue was Neil Bonnett winning the World 600 for Rahmoc and Warner Hodgdon in that cool looking white Monte Carlo SS . I still have it.
 
In the 80's in the mid south, it was Circle track and the back pages of Hotrod magazine. Never saw a Winston Cup scene around here. The sports pages of the Sunday paper would have a picture and small column of who won at the local dirt track Saturday night. Dark days around here. Light years ahead today is.
 
Spotter22 said:
I'm not kidding and the facts bear it out. Perhaps we can go back to when drivers won by 2 laps or 30 seconds etc.... What makes you think its worse.
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I wouldn't dispute that generally the competition is closer today than at some different points throughout history. It varies. I will state that much of today's closeness is an obvious manipulation. Actual speed differentials show that if races were conducted and officiated more as they were during those historical periods mentioned, teams like the #78 in 2017 and the #4 in 2014/2015 had the speed to decimate the rest of the field. Dominant cars are held in check by increased cautions, stage breaks, double-file restarts, lucky dogs, wave arounds, etc. NASCAR may be trying to achieve parity by making the cars closer in actual performance, but they've had far more success simply forcing the races to stop more often to stack everyone up. They could throw the yellow every 10 laps and restart four-wide, and this would lead to more statistical lead changes and closer finishes.

Tolerance for these measures varies. Some would rather watch a 'purer' race, some don't care as long as the results are more to their liking. I tend to not be an ends justifies the means person.
 
Formerjackman said:
For me it was coming home from high school to get the newest weekly Winston Cup Scene out of the mailbox. When I started reading it in May 1983, it was still Grand National Scene. My very first issue was Neil Bonnett winning the World 600 for Rahmoc and Warner Hodgdon in that cool looking white Monte Carlo SS . I still have it.
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Ah, in Ohio it was the "Mid American Auto Racing News" coming on Thursday, if we were lucky. Then of course Chris E. and Speed Sport News weekly. Wished I had kept a couple of those like you did.
 
Spotter22 said:
I'm not kidding and the facts bear it out. Perhaps we can go back to when drivers won by 2 laps or 30 seconds etc.... What makes you think its worse.
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Lack of passing, aero issues, spec cars, I could go on and on. Yes I didn't mind a car winning by a lap, at least back in the 80s these cars looked identifiable. Now they all look alike except for a few decals.
 
gnomesayin said:
I wouldn't dispute that generally the competition is closer today than at some different points throughout history. It varies. I will state that much of today's closeness is an obvious manipulation. Actual speed differentials show that if races were conducted and officiated more as they were during those historical periods mentioned, teams like the #78 in 2017 and the #4 in 2014/2015 had the speed to decimate the rest of the field. Dominant cars are held in check by increased cautions, stage breaks, double-file restarts, lucky dogs, wave arounds, etc. NASCAR may be trying to achieve parity by making the cars closer in actual performance, but they've had far more success simply forcing the races to stop more often to stack everyone up. They could throw the yellow every 10 laps and restart four-wide, and this would lead to more statistical lead changes and closer finishes.

Tolerance for these measures varies. Some would rather watch a 'purer' race, some don't care as long as the results are more to their liking. I tend to not be an ends justifies the means person.
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if you would pay attention to qualifying speeds, you would see many tracks where the top 5 aren't separated by a tenth of a second..sometimes less, sometimes a bit more. But I guess somebody will be along soon to say that is manipulation also. Racing series call it BOP or balance of performance
 
StandOnIt said:
if you would pay attention to qualifying speeds, you would see many tracks where the top 5 aren't separated by a tenth of a second..sometimes less, sometimes a bit more. But I guess somebody will be along soon to say that is manipulation also
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A valid point as it relates to qualifying speeds, but race speeds are considerably more disparate as you know. I'm not sure how this disputes the reality of my point when the claim is NASCAR is superior now because dominant cars used to win by "2 laps or 30 seconds". There are cars dominant enough today to win by 30 seconds or more over the course of a 200-mile green flag run. They are stopped through changes in on-track officiating. Do you dispute this?
 
of course, I watch lap times during all the races. Cars with the exception of this year are closer than ever. Stages aren't a gimmick, they are a compromise between commercial times taking the green laps away and having a break so they can get them in under caution. Got to pay the bills..all sports have to.
 
gnomesayin said:
A valid point as it relates to qualifying speeds, but race speeds are considerably more disparate as you know. I'm not sure how this disputes the reality of my point when the claim is NASCAR is superior now because dominant cars used to win by "2 laps or 30 seconds". There are cars dominant enough today to win by 30 seconds or more over the course of a 200-mile green flag run. They are stopped through changes in on-track officiating. Do you dispute this?
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Race speed are disparate in every era of NASCAR, its much closer now.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Lack of passing, aero issues, spec cars, I could go on and on. Yes I didn't mind a car winning by a lap, at least back in the 80s these cars looked identifiable. Now they all look alike except for a few decals.
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Aero has been an issue since 2 cars were on the track, spec cars are still set up differently, its just a common body to stop the whining, Go look at todays sedans, they all look alike anyway.
 
StandOnIt said:
of course, I watch lap times during all the races. Cars with the exception of this year are closer than ever. Stages aren't a gimmick, they are a compromise between commercial times taking the green laps away and having a break so they can get them in under caution. Got to pay the bills..all sports have to.
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Stick,ball puck sports all have time outs so commercials can be shown and it has been that way for 40 yrs. No one complains about it except Nascar fans. They want their cake and beer with no commercials.
I think there is room for PPV races with no commercials.
 
Team Penske said:
Stick,ball puck sports all have time outs so commercials can be shown and it has been that way for 40 yrs. No one complains about it except Nascar fans. They want their cake and beer with no commercials.
I think there is room for PPV races with no commercials.
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It doesn't matter to me if there is action going on while in commercial but what I don't care for is people doing magic tricks, worthless interviews, talking heads, cutaway cars while the race is going on. I don't care about freakin helmet cams, side cams, foot cams, brake rotor cams or suspension cams either.
 
Spotter22 said:
I'm not kidding and the facts bear it out. Perhaps we can go back to when drivers won by 2 laps or 30 seconds etc.... What makes you think its worse.
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1971 or 1991?
 
No-one will be standing or kneeling on the pit wall fueling the car.

Air-jacks are a costly, complex solution to a problem that doesn’t exist.
 
Besides ... Formerairjack is a terrible forum username.
 
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