NASCAR Television Coverage

Revman

Revman

Toyota Gazoo Racing North America
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Gotta tell ya, I have about had it with ESPN (and Fox). Where the hell did the coverage for the technical aspects of this sport go? Tim Brewer--Where the hell are you? 0 Ride Height gave these cars a tight condition which swung the balance of power from the 48 to the 2, 22, 24, 4, and 88 to an extent. The JGR cars haven't been able to figure it out all year, and both the 20 and 11 suffered the same issues at the same time today--clearly a set up issue. The 48, 5, 11, 18, and 20 have struggled all year. Mike Bagley from NASCAR Radio claimed that he had been talking about this all season, but I heard HIS interview with Knaus which revealed the tendencies of the new set ups. Bottom line---Why? What is happening with the set ups to create this tight condition and change the sport dramatically? Somebody out there with some engineering sense would know the answer yet it is never addressed on the broadcasts other than the "new set ups because of the 0 Ride Height Rule" which I am betting isn't even understood by the talking heads. I am sick of the drama queen coverage of the drivers and their personalities. I love to learn about this sport, but honestly, I have learned very little this year other than what I have dug up from the Internet. The purpose of this post is threefold: 1) My rant, 2) My slam on the broadcasting companies, and most importantly, 3) To solicit a discussion about the 0 Ride Height--What is it about slamming the cars that produces the tight condition that several teams with some of the brightest engineers on the planet haven't bee able to figure out?
 
FOX wanted to do away with the tech talk a few years ago and I don't see it coming back despite David Hill being gone now. Maybe NBC will mix it up a bit.

Hill said it's because the focus has returned to the personalities and has shifted from the cars. NASCAR introduced its current car model in 2007, and its struggles dominated many storylines.

"This sport has been built by some of the biggest and boldest and bravest personalities in the history of sport," Hill said. "No one cares about the car. The car is second. It's the driver, and I think that last year marketed that, and that's why the young males came back."
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–– Focus on the drivers. Hill set the Fox/Speed agenda for this season as one that will put the spotlight back onto the drivers.

"What this sport is all about is the drivers," he said. "Everything else in NASCAR is an afterthought. People follow the sport because the drivers are heroes.

"The Car of Tomorrow became the greatest red herring in the history of this sport. It took the emphasis away from the heroes. And what we're trying to do with our programming is move it back."

Asked specifically how Fox and Speed would achieve that goal, Hill said he didn't know yet.

"I'll figure it out," he said with a smile. "We've got three weeks to go yet."
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Im no engineer but I think it would have something to do with the new way they setup the shocks. Aero dependance isn't as important now.. the cars sit tight to the track when they're sitting on pit road, it used to be that the air on the nose would push the front end down and that is what they had to determine in setting up the car. How much down force and where the front end will sit once the air is pushing down on it. Well now the cars dont come back up as much when there is less air on the nose because they're sealed to the track mechanically instead of with air. I would also assume that with air being less predictable it would make a car more unstable... I mean... you ever drive a pickup truck full of stuff at high speed? The front end travels because the front of the truck is higher in the air than the back, I'm guessing it's similar to the way these cars would feel with the nose up in the air through the center of the corner. Hence drivers who like their cars loose aren't doing as good right now.

This is my guess.. like I said I'm no engineer.. but I am pretty good with problem solving and seeing things for how they would work mechanically and I believe I'm close. I'm sure there is MUCH more to it.
 
It's difficult to find the right mix. David Hill is right though. Most viewers don't care about the technical stuff and just want to watch the race or follow their driver.

The nuts and bolts of car setups and more intricate tech about the cars themselves are better served on the daily shows like racehub and nascar america where the viewer is typically a more hardcore fan
 
Bestwick has a game 7 moment every time a caution flag is lifted. It's all about drama.

I completely understand wanting to learn more of the technical aspect but has anyone watched any type of educational TV program lately? 99% are more about the drama and those in the show than about the subject.
 
chris.press.5 said:
It's difficult to find the right mix. David Hill is right though. Most viewers don't care about the technical stuff and just want to watch the race or follow their driver.

The nuts and bolts of car setups and more intricate tech about the cars themselves are better served on the daily shows like racehub and nascar america where the viewer is typically a more hardcore fan
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Yeah, but those shows don't address that stuff. Our sport does everything it can to emulate the stick and ball formats. How many technical shows exist for baseball and football? Too many to count. For whatever reason, these producers think that we don't care about the cars, set ups, etc. Without that stuff, we have no sport. Stupid.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Im no engineer but I think it would have something to do with the new way they setup the shocks. Aero dependance isn't as important now.. the cars sit tight to the track when they're sitting on pit road, it used to be that the air on the nose would push the front end down and that is what they had to determine in setting up the car. How much down force and where the front end will sit once the air is pushing down on it. Well now the cars dont come back up as much when there is less air on the nose because they're sealed to the track mechanically instead of with air. I would also assume that with air being less predictable it would make a car more unstable... I mean... you ever drive a pickup truck full of stuff at high speed? The front end travels because the front of the truck is higher in the air than the back, I'm guessing it's similar to the way these cars would feel with the nose up in the air through the center of the corner. Hence drivers who like their cars loose aren't doing as good right now.

This is my guess.. like I said I'm no engineer.. but I am pretty good with problem solving and seeing things for how they would work mechanically and I believe I'm close. I'm sure there is MUCH more to it.
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Bingo Sliced. Thank you. Makes a ton of sense. A full season, and I go to.....the......Penske.....guy. Good source--your boys have it nailed. Wonder what the smaller spoiler and radiator pan will do to all of this next year.
 
I miss the tech talk. Its like the drivers exist in a vacuum...without their chariots that allow them to create the drama we enjoy.

Wish they would bring it back--but the causal fan does not care about the cars....they want drama and cars do not have tempers that flare and punch other competitors.
 
Revman said:
Disagree. The cars are part of the story, and they have been left out of the discussion.
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I disagree. Petree discusses the cars all the time. You've got to have a balance. Based on your comments, I can tell that your ideal race broadcast would bore most people to death.
 
Revman said:
Bingo Sliced. Thank you. Makes a ton of sense. A full season, and I go to.....the......Penske.....guy. Good source--your boys have it nailed. Wonder what the smaller spoiler and radiator pan will do to all of this next year.
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I'm not really sure how the cars will react.. are they keeping the no ride height rule? Because that could make for a lot of rear ends sliding around. Which I think (again, I'm no engineer) is a different kind of loose. The front end traveling too much (like before) would create an over steer I think. They've changed that, but I believe taking down force off the rear end should make the car try to come around from the back end. The teams will have their work cut out for them trying to come up with a way to keep that rear end glued to the track and follow the rest of the car through the corner. Although I'm sure with reduced horsepower that will change many other aspects of it. I'm looking forward to seeing which teams get hold of it quicker. I'm guessing the same guys really.. Penske, HMS, maybe JGR and SHR.
 
If you want racing and drama watch the race on TV.

If you want the techical aspects do your own research.

Simple as that.
 
ToyYoda said:
I can take or leave the techspeak. Sometimes I find it interesting, sometimes it bores me to tears. I guess it just depends on which particular aspect is being discussed.
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That's the thing. Like I said earlier it's a mix that's tough to balance. You'll never please everyone. Fox had the cutaway car onsite and now has a virtual car. It's enough for me
 
I mentioned this in another thread somewhere. In the beginning, Fox particularly would just go way overboard with trying to explain everything all the time "to those of you new to the sport". How many times were tight and loose explained? Remember "draft tracker" or whatever it was where they showed the air moving over the cars? And All of them had the cutaways and models and stuff. For a while, it was almost too much. But I think now, I'd like to have that back. There has been very little discussion of technical stuff this year, particularly in the pre-race shows, which is where it would be welcome. Not even that, there was no explanation of the qualifying mess at Talledega either.

Football and baseball broadcasts assume the viewer has some level of knowledge of the sport, and they do a good job explaining the stuff that needs to be explained. Why can't NASCAR coverage be like that? They want to be like stick/ball sports in every other aspect.
 
Nichodemus said:
I mentioned this in another thread somewhere. In the beginning, Fox particularly would just go way overboard with trying to explain everything all the time "to those of you new to the sport". How many times were tight and loose explained? Remember "draft tracker" or whatever it was where they showed the air moving over the cars? And All of them had the cutaways and models and stuff. For a while, it was almost too much. But I think now, I'd like to have that back. There has been very little discussion of technical stuff this year, particularly in the pre-race shows, which is where it would be welcome. Not even that, there was no explanation of the qualifying mess at Talledega either.

Football and baseball broadcasts assume the viewer has some level of knowledge of the sport, and they do a good job explaining the stuff that needs to be explained. Why can't NASCAR coverage be like that? They want to be like stick/ball sports in every other aspect.
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FOX came up with this bizarre tracker in the spring. Not sure what good that does:

Fox%20Wind%20Trax
 
I miss the tech shows, yeah, they were probably filler on the old speed network, but a lot of the hardcore fans can't get enough of that stuff.
As far as coverage goes, If I had my magic wand, I would have a clause in every one of my media contracts that during commercials, at least a full quarter of the picture would be the continuing race start to finish.
 
FLRacingFan said:
FOX came up with this bizarre tracker in the spring. Not sure what good that does:

Fox%20Wind%20Trax
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At Daytona, wind is a large factor in how the car drives.

Hilarious trackers though. I remember watching that and had to remember if I took the wrong pill :p
 
ChexOrWrex said:
At Daytona, wind is a large factor in how the car drives.

Hilarious trackers though. I remember watching that and had to remember if I took the wrong pill :p
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They definitely could've cleaned it up a bit. Looks like the acid is kicking in.
 
The tech shows were good. But the tech stuff in the race broadcasts were too simple and dumbed down. If they still had those, I doubt we'd ever get an explanation of the zero ride height specifics.
 
I like it when they point out certain cars that are faster and gaining positions that are back in the pack, and cars that the handling is going away on, more driver crew chief talk when they are discussing what is wrong with the car is always good IMO.
 
thought tha chad / bootie show did a good job on tech talk.
ratings not good i guess ?
 
Nichodemus said:
I mentioned this in another thread somewhere. In the beginning, Fox particularly would just go way overboard with trying to explain everything all the time "to those of you new to the sport". How many times were tight and loose explained? Remember "draft tracker" or whatever it was where they showed the air moving over the cars? And All of them had the cutaways and models and stuff. For a while, it was almost too much. But I think now, I'd like to have that back. There has been very little discussion of technical stuff this year, particularly in the pre-race shows, which is where it would be welcome. Not even that, there was no explanation of the qualifying mess at Talledega either.

Football and baseball broadcasts assume the viewer has some level of knowledge of the sport, and they do a good job explaining the stuff that needs to be explained. Why can't NASCAR coverage be like that? They want to be like stick/ball sports in every other aspect.
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"Now you see, Tom Brady has thrown the football to Julian Edelman, and Edelman has crossed the white line into what is known as the "end zone" thus causing the Patriots to add 6 points to their total score."
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
I disagree. Petree discusses the cars all the time. You've got to have a balance. Based on your comments, I can tell that your ideal race broadcast would bore most people to death.
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It's not a discussion about the car without a cut-away car. :D
 
ChexOrWrex said:
If you want racing and drama watch the race on TV.

If you want the techical aspects do your own research.

Simple as that.
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How about we make the broadcasts more technical and you can Google for the drama?
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I'm not really sure how the cars will react.. are they keeping the no ride height rule? Because that could make for a lot of rear ends sliding around. Which I think (again, I'm no engineer) is a different kind of loose. The front end traveling too much (like before) would create an over steer I think. They've changed that, but I believe taking down force off the rear end should make the car try to come around from the back end. The teams will have their work cut out for them trying to come up with a way to keep that rear end glued to the track and follow the rest of the car through the corner. Although I'm sure with reduced horsepower that will change many other aspects of it. I'm looking forward to seeing which teams get hold of it quicker. I'm guessing the same guys really.. Penske, HMS, maybe JGR and SHR.
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You think they are trying to take the tight out of it by reducing the rear spoiler? They are reducing the size of the radiator pan too I think. Looking for Kyle to benefit from the tapered spacer--throttle on--all the time. Kyle18fan pointed out that Kyle's background is in underpowered late models.
 
Revman said:
You think they are trying to take the tight out of it by reducing the rear spoiler? They are reducing the size of the radiator pan too I think. Looking for Kyle to benefit from the tapered spacer--throttle on--all the time. Kyle18fan pointed out that Kyle's background is in underpowered late models.
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It is, and he will
 
Revman said:
How about we make the broadcasts more technical and you can Google for the drama?
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Youd never see nascar on tv again.

Revman said:
You think they are trying to take the tight out of it by reducing the rear spoiler? They are reducing the size of the radiator pan too I think. Looking for Kyle to benefit from the tapered spacer--throttle on--all the time. Kyle18fan pointed out that Kyle's background is in underpowered late models.
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No need to take the tight out. Kyle will drive through it, right?
 
Revman said:
You think they are trying to take the tight out of it by reducing the rear spoiler? They are reducing the size of the radiator pan too I think. Looking for Kyle to benefit from the tapered spacer--throttle on--all the time. Kyle18fan pointed out that Kyle's background expertise is in underpowered late models. trucks & nns cars .
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fixed that. :D
 
What I dont miss about all the "technical talk" from FOX during the races was it came across as they were talking down to the viewers, now I am aware that many people watching had no clue, but for the rest of us, it got old , fast, and what made it worse was it was the same explanation of the same thing every week it seemed. ESPN and Tim Brewer did a much better job IMO of doing the technical part, he came off more as a teaching , educating viewers, not talking down to them.

ESPN got rid of the the Technical Center aka trailer because of the cost issue , I have no doubts about that.

The networks have put all the focus on the drivers, and its not just the race's, its all the support coverage, Race Hub and NASCAR America , while that was fine when we still had SPEED, and had the all the technical shows, but now those are gone, and just left with nothing but fluff.

I could go on , but I will leave it at that, but I do have a rant ready for Race Hub :laugh:
 
Revman said:
You think they are trying to take the tight out of it by reducing the rear spoiler? They are reducing the size of the radiator pan too I think. Looking for Kyle to benefit from the tapered spacer--throttle on--all the time. Kyle18fan pointed out that Kyle's background is in underpowered late models.
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Something like that... reducing down force on the rear should make the back end move around more under braking and acceleration ... but with all the different changes they're making its hard to say what the overall effect will be. I dont know what effect the radiator pan would have on it. The spacer will make it interesting, gona turn Michigan into Talladega lol
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Youd never see nascar on tv again.


No need to take the tight out. Kyle will drive through it, right?
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Nope. Honestly, I think my manufacturer has taken more hits than they should have from drivers/teams who haven't been able to get a handle on cars that cannot be tuned to the drivers' demand for a loose car. I don't think that Kyle can drive a tight car any more than Jimmie can. Having said that, I think it is amazing that they run they way they do given a feel they hate.
 
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