Nationwide Chase without Cup regulars

dpkimmel2001

dpkimmel2001

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Being reported on SNR..... Apparently it's a new idea being considered. In an attempt to assure a Cup regular is unable to win the Nationwide title, they may decide to go to a Chase format shorter in duration than in the Cup Series that will not include Cup regulars. Thoughts?
 
i think the Cup regulars ought to stick to Cup racing. Why are they even in the Nationwide series anyway?
 
I don't know how that would work. If nascar is going to let a cup driver compete full time in nationwide, how can they say he can't compete for the title? I say let any cup driver race in nationwide, in 5 races per year. I'd rather go with no cup drivers allowed, but some people seem to think nationwide can't survive without them.:rolleyes:
 
lisa_c said:
i think the Cup regulars ought to stick to Cup racing. Why are they even in the Nationwide series anyway?
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I think it's because that's the only place some of them feel competitive. ;)
 
Some more info on this.....

NASCAR officials are considering a possible Chase playoff format for the Nationwide Series next season that would exclude Sprint Cup competitors, sources confirmed Tuesday.

NASCAR president Mike Helton met with Nationwide Series team owners, drivers and crew chiefs Monday in Concord, N.C., to discuss cost-containment ideas and possible changes that would allow a Nationwide-only driver to win the championship.

If implemented, a Nationwide Series Chase probably would have fewer drivers and fewer races than the Chase for the Sprint Cup, which has 12 drivers for the final 10 events.

Full-time Sprint Cup drivers have won the past four Nationwide Series titles and a Cup driver probably will win it again this season. Brad Keselowski holds a commanding lead over Carl Edwards and Kyle Busch, all three of whom are Cup regulars.

NASCAR wants to bring more attention to Nationwide Series drivers who don't compete regularly in the Cup series. Officials discussed the possibility of limiting or eliminating points for a Cup driver who ranks in the top 35 in the Cup standings.

Cup drivers still could compete in all the Nationwide events, but not compete for the championship. The team owner of those cars would continue to receive owners points, which would allow the car to win the owner's championship, but not the driver championship.

This would appease sponsors, which still would win a championship as the primary sponsor on the car.

The other major topic of the meeting was cost containment. NASCAR may cut purse money at Nationwide events by as much as 20 percent next season because of decreased attendance at the tracks. Only a handful of tracks that host Nationwide events this season made a profit off of those races.

One possible cost-saving measure is to limit to traveling crews for each team, something that was done previously in the Camping World Truck Series. Officials also discussed limits to the numbers of engines a team would use during the season.

Teams also talked about making sure the new Nationwide car, which is the same chassis as the Cup car with the same safety features, remains different from the Cup version.
 
Still doesn't solve the problem of the Cup drivers taking the larger purse money for the top 5 or top 10 positions at each race.

Then Nascar wants to cut the purses by 20%?

Just making it worse for the Nationwide only teams in the way of them picking up some money for their efforts.
 
The reason cup drivers do the Nationwide is it's free testing. I know its a different car but they can get a feel for the track and learn what lines work and which don't. It helps them to figure out how to set the cup cars up when they race those tracks.
 
I certainly would not feel like a "champion" if the sport I was competing in made rules to exclude someone that was better than me. :confused:

I remember about a year ago when some folks thought that the nationwide series would not be able to fill the field. That has not happened yet, but it might happen very soon.
 
If they would limit how many races a full time cup guy is in then that would solve some of the problems. Thats what I think anyway. Or if your a full time cup guy for X amount of years you are only alowed so many races in nation wide.
I don't have a problem with Kesolowski and Lagono and the guys that are still fresh meat in Cup series but the guys like Harvick and Edwards, who are far superior in experience, should not be able to race all of them. No other sport allows that, a guy gets sent back to the minors if he's not ready for the bigs they don't choose to go to get their confidence/ego boosted.
 
Guido said:
Still doesn't solve the problem of the Cup drivers taking the larger purse money for the top 5 or top 10 positions at each race.

Then Nascar wants to cut the purses by 20%?

Just making it worse for the Nationwide only teams in the way of them picking up some money for their efforts.
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Exactly, when i read that i went HUH? I like the idea of the Cup guys not running for the championship, but the car owners' points still count.
 
Stupid idea. Even if they can't win the title you are still gonna have Cup drivers winning all the races other than maybe 3 or 4. They need to limit the number of races.
 
I like the idea of cup owners not being able to own or fund NW teams. That alone would level the playing field. I wouldn't mind watching the cup drivers in the NW series driving a 2nd class ride, similar to what Newman does with James Finch.
MoMike
 
If my memory serves cup drivers were allowed to race Busch in order to boost attendence. It's gotten way out of hand in recent years. It's like the winning superbowl team playing your high school team and high fiving while claiming victory.
If you're a cup driver you're a cup driver not a nnw driver.
It's like being pregnant, you are or you aren't, there's no in between or switching back and forth.
 
MoMike said:
I like the idea of cup owners not being able to own or fund NW teams. That alone would level the playing field. I wouldn't mind watching the cup drivers in the NW series driving a 2nd class ride, similar to what Newman does with James Finch.
MoMike
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interesting idea but what's to stop the remaining nationwide teams going after cup regulars instead of nw regulars? also, i don't think there are enough pure nw teams to attract a full field. you lose the big sponsorship dollars also that a *cup lite* team can attract. one of those nice in theory ideas that can't support itself at the moment. maybe in better economic times.
 
SlowNeasy said:
interesting idea but what's to stop the remaining nationwide teams going after cup regulars instead of nw regulars? also, i don't think there are enough pure nw teams to attract a full field. you lose the big sponsorship dollars also that a *cup lite* team can attract. one of those nice in theory ideas that can't support itself at the moment. maybe in better economic times.
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What I believe you'll find, is that when the equipment playing field is leveled, the cup drivers will stop dominating.
MoMike
 
Stewart Fan said:
Stupid idea. Even if they can't win the title you are still gonna have Cup drivers winning all the races other than maybe 3 or 4. They need to limit the number of races.
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I concur, physically limiting the number of Cup Raiders in a NW race is really the only effective way to retain an identity for that series. I think a realistic way to carry that out would be to exclude Cup regulars from being locked into a Nationwide field, limit the number of positions available to them to 5 per race (at most), and have any of them wanting to get in the field fight for it in qualifying. Again, only 5 out of the usual 15+ will make it in. Then you prohibit the Cup drivers from using their Cup teams to pit the car.

As SST gets into, it's gotten to the point where the Cup Raiders are essential to Nationwide ratings, attendance, and sponsorship. They've gone unchecked for so long that the series would probably end up in dire straits without them, so this is a way I've thought of to try and bring the identity that the series is supposed to have back without unintentionally killing it. If they can't fill the fields under this scenario, I see no problem with cutting them down to 36. But I think gradually as the Cup influence goes down, the true Nationwide teams will be able to better sustain themselves. Heck, the BGN series often had sub-30 car fields in the 80s and early 90s and it was great then.
 
I agree with James. Limit the number of cup drivers and make them all qualify for those positions and send the rest home.
Trucks run a field of 36, no reason the nationwide can't do that. The trucks survive without all the cup drivers and has the best racing. No reason nationwide can't do the same.
 
I sure fall in the minority on this but I've never had a problem with Cup drivers running in the Nationwide Series. The only thing that I don't like is when they run for the championship. Cup drivers have been running in that division since it's inception. Heck, Dale Earnhardt won the first race. I think that if they make whatever changes they decide to prevent the Cup driver from competing for the championship, their participation will subside and the Nationwide's identity will return.

I'd much rather see them structure the schedule in such a way that would make the travel between venues an impossibility for enough weekends to ensure a Cup regular not win the title. Or easier yet, don't allow the Cup driver to participate in the Nationwide race if he doesn't attend/participate in all practices. They are already in enough standalone events that could prevent a Cup driver from wining the championship if that were the case.

I think a Chase for the Nationwide title is a bad idea. If they simply said, 'OK, you're a Cup regular, your not eligible for the Chase', what is going to be said when all of the drivers on the stage at the Nationwide banquet have zero wins?

Note on evening up the pit crews..... Put a smaller filler neck on that gas can and make it so each can takes about 18 seconds to empty. It won't matter how fast that guy can change the tire or how fast that guy can pump that jack. That will put everyone back on an even playing field..... in the pits anyway.
 
Justin Allgaier won at Bristol back in March. Other than that all nationwide races have been won by cup drivers. In fact there are 6 cup drivers that have won in nationwide this year but can't win in cup. Maybe that's why they race there.
 
Maybe they feel like they need to go there and win a race so they can still feel competitive.:D
 
NASCAR should've put a stop to it in 2006. Instead, they let it spiral out of control.

I agree with dpkimmel, it's not THAT the Cup regulars run the races -- it's the fact that they run every single Cup race and there are so many Cup drivers in the series that all the quality rides are gone. That leaves guys like Scott Wimmer, Stephen Leicht, Matt Carter, Parker Kligerman without rides altogether (or very low-budget start and park rides).

The other problem is that NASCAR's intentionally made it easier for the Cup drivers to run all the races... scheduling the races closer together, scheduling as many Cup/Nationwide doubleheaders as they can.
 
If they had a Nationwide Chase this year with the top 10 non-Cup drivers eligible, here is who would be in it:

1. Justin Allgaier
2. Steve Wallace
3. Trevor Bayne
4. Brendan Gaughan
5. Jason Leffler
6. Michael Annett
7. Brian Scott
8. Tony Raines
9. Mike Bliss
10. Mike Wallace
 
MRM said:
If they had a Nationwide Chase this year with the top 10 non-Cup drivers eligible, here is who would be in it:

1. Justin Allgaier
2. Steve Wallace
3. Trevor Bayne
4. Brendan Gaughan
5. Jason Leffler
6. Michael Annett
7. Brian Scott
8. Tony Raines
9. Mike Bliss
10. Mike Wallace
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I think Sorenson should be in there he has only been running Cup since Vickers went out
 
Then again..... Maybe not.

From ESPN.....

Whether that proposal will become a reality remains a question, as NASCAR chairman and CEO Brian France told ESPNDallas.com's Richard Durrett that he doubted the Nationwide series would get a Chase.

"I don't think so. It's a shorter season, for starters with 10 fewer races or so. That would create some issues," France said. "We have four national divisions, so we've got to distinguish them and doing too many things wouldn't do that. I don't think you'll see that."

However, France said creating a structure where a Nationwide regular can win that series instead of a Sprint Cup regular remains a goal.

"What we've got to have is it has to be a place where we can create new talent. They are completely submerged on a stage where there are so many Cup drivers," France said. "That's been evolving in the last six or seven years where there are so many more drivers competing on Saturday from Sunday and we have to make that series work better than it is. It's working fine, but it can work better."
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
.... Cup drivers have been running in that division since it's inception. Heck, Dale Earnhardt won the first race.

I'd much rather see them structure the schedule in such a way that would make the travel between venues an impossibility for enough weekends to ensure a Cup regular not win the title.

..... Put a smaller filler neck on that gas can and make it so each can takes about 18 seconds to empty. It won't matter how fast that guy can change the tire or how fast that guy can pump that jack
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Man, this post has everything plus a great idea about the filler necks. My local tracks have been paying a couple of Nascar guys to come in and race once a summer.It fills the seats and brings out new fans. If the cup guys didn't race in the Nationwide Series voluntarily, Nascar would have to pay them to do it.Quietly,without any hooplah , schedule one or two more stand alone events on a Sunday.End of problem.You want to be the best,race against the best.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Then again..... Maybe not.

From ESPN.....

Whether that proposal will become a reality remains a question, as NASCAR chairman and CEO Brian France told ESPNDallas.com's Richard Durrett that he doubted the Nationwide series would get a Chase.

"I don't think so. It's a shorter season, for starters with 10 fewer races or so. That would create some issues," France said. "We have four national divisions, so we've got to distinguish them and doing too many things wouldn't do that. I don't think you'll see that."

However, France said creating a structure where a Nationwide regular can win that series instead of a Sprint Cup regular remains a goal.

"What we've got to have is it has to be a place where we can create new talent. They are completely submerged on a stage where there are so many Cup drivers," France said. "That's been evolving in the last six or seven years where there are so many more drivers competing on Saturday from Sunday and we have to make that series work better than it is. It's working fine, but it can work better."
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Hey Brian France the Nationwide Series has 1 less race.NOT 10.
 
Edwards plans to run full Nationwide sched in 2011

#99-Carl Edwards said Friday he has committed to racing the full Nationwide Series schedule next season. Edwards said he will drive the full season in NASCAR's second-tier series even if he's not eligible to race for the Nationwide championship.

This is going to get interesting..... Say for a second that he or maybe one or two more Cup drivers decide to do this and they absolutely crush the competition, kinda like now. Then, in the end, they are eliminated from the Nationwide Chase. Or..... Maybe there is no Nationwide Chase. Maybe they simply don't earn drivers points but they still compete in all events. That first full time Nationwide driver that is sitting on 0 or perhaps 1 win, is he truly the champion of the series? I know I'm not going to look at a guy who got his a$$ handed to him as the champion. But that's just me.

I'd still rather they simply structure the schedule in such a way that deters a driver from running both series. I heard a good idea yesterday. On the weekends that the two don't run as companion events, schedule Cup qualifying an hour before the green flag of the Nationwide race. I think those Cup drivers would then have no choice but to miss the Nationwide race.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
[

I heard a good idea yesterday. On the weekends that the two don't run as companion events, schedule Cup qualifying an hour before the green flag of the Nationwide race. I think those Cup drivers would then have no choice but to miss the Nationwide race.
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I think it's going to take doing something like that. I think they should add to that though and say if they miss cup qualifying they don't race in the cup race. Right now if something happens and they don't make a qualifying run, don't they still get to race as long as they in the top 35?
 
JustMe said:
I think it's going to take doing something like that. I think they should add to that though and say if they miss cup qualifying they don't race in the cup race. Right now if something happens and they don't make a qualifying run, don't they still get to race as long as they in the top 35?
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Let me get out my rulebook and take a look. Now let's see..... Oh yeah, there is no rule book. I don't know how that rule is if they don't make an attempt. Maybe someone else can qualify the car and then the other driver steps in for the race. Then, I'd guess that would mean that he'd start at the end of the field. That doesn't sound to me like something their Cup sponsor would be satisfied with.
 
That's why they need to put it that if you miss qualifying or someone else qualifies your car, you don't get to race.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Let me get out my rulebook and take a look. Now let's see..... Oh yeah, there is no rule book. I don't know how that rule is if they don't make an attempt. Maybe someone else can qualify the car and then the other driver steps in for the race. Then, I'd guess that would mean that he'd start at the end of the field. That doesn't sound to me like something their Cup sponsor would be satisfied with.
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misplaced my rulebook but if memory serves me right i've seen this happen.
 
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