New Game for the Drivers?

H

HardScrabble

Guest
The new of world of concentrated aerodyanamics on the WC cars may have led some (many, all, a few?) drivers to a new game.

Intimidation, in the form of squeezing another driver's space to nothing or less has been around forever. Indeed "rubbing" is nothing more than a form of on track intimidation, whith added advantage of often times creating the space needed to make a pass. But an added side benefit may have been found.

The "flare" of the front fenders is well known to create front downforce. I can't say exactly how it works, but it does. So logic would tell ya that if the "flare" is reduced front downforce is reduced as well. Enter the recording and transcript of Kurt's brush with Jimmy on the track in Sunday's race at Michigan. While folks consider this as a smoking gun of transgression on Kurt's part, looking past the immediate it would seem logical that "flatten his fender" may carry more than an attempt to intimidate the man who never forgets.

Personally I don't believe Kurt came up with this all by his lonesome. I can't help but wonder if this flattening of fenders is something other drivers are practicing as way to gain an edge on their competitiors as well. Seems the conversation with his "pits", spotter? whoever indicated that Busch missed the mark by a couple of inches. Which translates into a very very specific target and technigue in my mind.

So it follows that "rubbin is racin" may have risen to a new level. Gonna keep an eye on the incidents of rubbing in future races, there may be more than just intimidation and bulling going on with this deal now.
 
I was thinking along the same lines HS. I have been very frustrated watching Jeff try to compete at some of these tracks after a fender is slightly damaged. I'm sure it is not always incedental when a bump is placed on the fender.
 
Great observation and interesting analogy. In retrospect, the bumping and rubbing has been of a different nature lately. Not designed to loosen up the other car but take away the handling characteristics.

Watching different drivers in recent races, there have been several of the "brushing alongside" incidents. Not just just between Spencer and Busch, but between every competitive driver.

What is the answer?? A penalty from NASCAR ?? Hard to prove incidental contact.
On a short track the fender flares might be helpful but as proven time and again since the formulation of NASCAR, on a short to mid-size track, it isn't as important as it has become on super speedways and cookie cutter tracks.

The answer possibly is to create a regulation on fender flare extension limits wherein rubbing damage will not be as detrimental. It might require another rule by NASCAR, but since they created this monster with basic templates, they will have to come to some conclusion.

As for Kurt Busch, his mouth got him in trouble, again, and this time he screwed with the wrong guy.
No, Spencer should not have hit him, whether Busch was in or out of the car, but doubtful Busch figured Spencer being aggressive enough to punch him.
Those Pennsylvania coal crackers are a tough and unforgiving lot. I raced against a bunch of them in the fifties.

Varying opinions on any portion of this post welcome so comment away. Please keep in mind, when it comes to the old "open mouth, insert foot" OR "OH sh1t, I wish I hadn't said that" routine, I have a loooooooooong personal history of first hand experience with those two admoniitions.



:cheers:
 
I agree, great observation. Seems like altering the oppositions setups could definitely prove to add an advantage to the doer. It must be very percise also. You can easily wreck yourself or the other person trying this, or just inflict more damage to yourself.
 
Hadn't thought about that angle, but could see where it could be an advantage. Hate to see Nascar make more rules though. They've already making a mess of things the way it is. Just hope that sometime down the road they will start reducing the aero importance of the formula.
 
Ha Ha Ha!

It's not a NEW game, it's as old as paving the Nascar tracks is.

They have been bending their bumpers for an advantage all the way back to the early sixties.

I the late seventies, most of the noses were rubber or fiber plastics and they didn't like it.

I think the late great D.E was one of the guys pushing for sheet metal noses in the early eighties.

I remember listening to drivers trying to figure out how to get the push out of their car by bending the nose, in 1977.
 
Noses?

Not one word about noses in this deal. Not the same deal at all.

Aerodyanmics have progressed beyond concerns about the nose, windshield angle, and rear deck. Even beyond the C pillar mods and front air dams. The teams are now suing the sides of the car and the drivers are using side drafting as well.

You may have been around for a while SR, but that does not put you in a class all by your self.
 
I don't know much about how the aerodynamics work on a car, but wouldn't bending the front flare in on a race car cause excess air to go into the front tire wells, causing additional drag?

Maybe I'm thinking of a different part of the car. Like I said, I don't know much about this high-tech racing world we live in heh.
 
KK - It would seem logical that allowing air into the wheel well area would increase drag. Probably does. Like I first said however it works, the flare out the teams are using at the wheel well trailing edge of the front fender is generating downforce. Teams will pull the fender out here to help plant the front of the car. So their deal is not about drag, but downforce. If ya look closely at plate track car (more Dega than Daytona) you will see the fenders tucked in much more than you will at Bristol or M'ville. These are the extremes. Downforce equals drag.........

SR - bump steer? Not sure what that has to with anything we're talking about here. Bump steer is the change in toe set as the suspension moves through its travel range.
 
Uh, real good Hardscrabble,

But in adding front down force, it affects the bump steer actions. Daytona is very bumpy out of turn four, and Talladega is very smooth most of the way around.

This dictates different set ups to occomodate that banging you get in turn four of Daytona as compared with Talladega.

Some drivers testify to the fact that in a bump their car can shift as much as 18" the opposite way they are turning the wheel, due to the forces involved.

Pretty hairy, but must be an awsome thrill to experience it in a race.
 
Makes sense........

Dega and Daytona require quite different setups, though I believe they likely run the same bodies at both. Likely Daytona still remains more of a "handling" track than Dega.

Not sure but I believe I would set the bump steer to zero for both. The teams are running such soft springs and high rebound shocks that they are running near maximum travel on their suspensions. Actually using the coil bind in the springs as a bump stop up front. (This might actually cause the darting as much as too much bump steer does.) Neither track configuration requires the use of bump steer and you could more consistently increase or decrease the Ackerman to acheive the same effect. At least that is the approach I would use.

The rear shock/spring package is mandated by NASCAR so ya can't fool around too much there.
 
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