New Point System

S

Splunge

Guest
I just realized last week that I am more interested in the 11-16+ positions of the standings than I ever have been before...since these guys actually have a chance of making the 'play-offs'.

So in my opinion, I like it. Usually by now it's down to about 5 drivers, and the rest are just kinda 'there'... so I think it's fun.

Just wanted to see what everyone thinks now that we're getting closer to the 'play-offs'.

But just in case....I reserve the right to totally rant at the end of the season tho..... :D

:cheers:
 
Originally posted by Splunge@Jul 16 2004, 11:46 AM
But just in case....I reserve the right to totally rant at the end of the season tho..... :D

:cheers:
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We will grant you that right. :XXROFL:
 
To borrow a line from Rusty's sponser...

"It's a travesty, and a sham, and a mockery! It's a traveshamockery!!"
 
I watch each individual race to see my drivers win that race. I just let the championship happen due to the individual race results. I don't watch for the championship.
 
I really don't like it. I read somewhere someone's (can't remember who though) opinion and totally agreed with it. It went something like 'it's like the first 26 races are just qualifying for the chase' or something like that. I think it's just a stupid way to attract new fans. It may be more exciting for the fans of the 10 or so drivers that make it, but what good is earning a huge points lead if it just goes away for the chase...
I'm rambling on now. I think I got my point across though.
 
When you compare the Chase to other playoff formats it really is the same. In other sports, the rest of the year is made somewhat meaningless when you reach the playoffs. All the work and things you've accomplished don't mean anything anymore. It will be interesting to watch. Can you imagine what kind of fire storm it could cause? Let's just imagine that we're going into the first or second race of the Chase for the Championship and Jimmie Johnson or Dale Jr, or anyone in the top ten is leading the race, he comes up on a lapped car, the lapped car doesn't get out of the way and he ends up taking out one of the Top Ten drivers and leaving them with a 30+ finish? I don't think it would be right for someone who is way behind to be able to so drastically affect the chances of a driver winning the championship. Anyways, it certainly will make the last ten races that much more exciting.
 
Yeh just imagine if Kurt Busch takes out Smoke with only 4 races to go ...talk about fireworks...hehehehe :XXROFL: :XXROFL:
 
Originally posted by Smoke@Jul 16 2004, 03:44 PM
When you compare the Chase to other playoff formats it really is the same. In other sports, the rest of the year is made somewhat meaningless when you reach the playoffs. All the work and things you've accomplished don't mean anything anymore.
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Which is why I preferred racing to other sports. Now, why bother being the best? Just be good enough.




:bslfag:
 
Just be good enough.
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Agreed. Just think good ol' DW would have 1 less championship if this system had been in place during his time. NASCAR, with all of the new rules, is really starting up a new series. They just aren't changing the players. :wacko:
 
Originally posted by hurrikahne9@Jul 16 2004, 12:47 PM
I think it's just a stupid way to attract new fans. It may be more exciting for the fans of the 10 or so drivers that make it,
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Don't even bother being a fan of a driver outside of the top 10 after race # 26, because your not going to see coverage of them.
 
Originally posted by Mopardh9@Jul 16 2004, 03:17 PM
Yeh just imagine if Kurt Busch takes out Smoke with only 4 races to go ...talk about fireworks...hehehehe :XXROFL: :XXROFL:
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Yeah, that would really piss me off. I already don't like Busch, but if Tony is leading the last race of the season and all he has to do is finish in the top ten to win the championship and Busch takes him out, I would be really mad.
 
Well, Smoke, that goes the same for all the fans of the drivers in that top ten
round off. Tony, Jeff G., Jimmie J., play "what if" with any of them.
If one of the drivers that doesn't hace the chance of a snowball
In the hot place takes out one or two of the "favored ten", it can alter
the entire result. And just who do you think is gonna be the most ticked?????
Driver???? Team????? Sponsor????? Fan?????
Ha!!!!!!!!!!! How about all of the above??
Oh, well, we shall see, won't we??
icecs4.gif

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Originally posted by Smoke@Jul 16 2004, 06:15 PM
Yeah, that would really piss me off. I already don't like Busch, but if Tony is leading the last race of the season and all he has to do is finish in the top ten to win the championship and Busch takes him out, I would be really mad.
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As mad as, say, Ray Evernham last week? As mad as, say, Kasey Kahne? John Andretti? Rusty Wallace?
 
well...in 'other sports' a playoff might be neccessary to determine the champion...in racing, everybody races against each other every race throughout the season, so no playoff was neccessary...also, every field is the same in other sports, a football field is always going to be 100 yards long, it's always 90 feet between the bases, all basketball rims are 10 feet off the ground, etc...baseball stadiums to have slight differences in the outfields, and the elevation will affect how many homeruns are hit at any particular location, but it's not even close to the differences in different racetracks.

so, while other sports have one-on-one play each game on more or less identical venues, which leads to championships being held at virtually identical venues, racing has one-on-42 competition every week at venues which require significantly different strategies...the best way to determine the a racing championship is to place an equal emphasis on every single race throughout the season.

this new system does not do that...whatever point differences are between each of the drivers in the top ten will be changed to 5 points between each spot, which places an increased emphasis on the final 10 races, instead of using the performance of the entire season.
 
Jury's still out for me on this. But, along with all the negatives everyone can come up with, there are positives.......about equal I would say. But the ones prone to the negatives will see only the negatives. At the moment, any one in the top 15 or 16 has a shot at getting within 400 points of the leader. And midway through the season that has never happened to my knowledge.......not bad when you think about it.

BTW, someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe the rule is anyone within 400 points of the leader is illegible for the chase. But if there isn't at least ten within that range then there will be ten in the chase..........no matter how far back they are. The game right now is to get within 400 points..........not necessarily in the top ten. The new system could wind up being very exciting. And I will say no matter what we won't see a driver crowned Champion with 10 to go.....and that is something that I hated about the old points system. Give it an honest look before you go off on it..........you may just like it.
 
DEW you are right. I will keep an open mind until the end.
This may work out to be a good thing. It has a 50/50 shot. :p I am just glad Nascar is trying something. That is better than not doing anything at all. Same with the GWC.
 
i dislike it

the points should be.
100 1st
90 2nd
80 3rd
70
60
50
40
30
20
10
5 for everyone else

give points for time trills also....
10 poll
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1

just my idea.
 
in racing every race is a playoff, cause its 1 team that beats 42 other teams.......racing does not need a end of the year playoff.

yes i have before thought it would be cool to see one, but it would have to be East vs West, or North vs South.......not the way its set up now.
 
Originally posted by Dinoforthe3+Jul 16 2004, 04:27 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Dinoforthe3 @ Jul 16 2004, 04:27 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--hurrikahne9@Jul 16 2004, 12:47 PM
I think it's just a stupid way to attract new fans. It may be more exciting for the fans of the 10 or so drivers that make it,
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Don't even bother being a fan of a driver outside of the top 10 after race # 26, because your not going to see coverage of them. [/b][/quote]
all i got to say if over the next fell races Robby does really well but is not in the top 10......but over the last few races, wins a few and could have been in the top 5 or 10 at the end of the year but gets 11th.......im goin crazy
 
Originally posted by racefan against nascare@Jul 16 2004, 09:10 PM
well...in 'other sports' a playoff might be neccessary to determine the champion...in racing, everybody races against each other every race throughout the season, so no playoff was neccessary...also, every field is the same in other sports, a football field is always going to be 100 yards long, it's always 90 feet between the bases, all basketball rims are 10 feet off the ground, etc...baseball stadiums to have slight differences in the outfields, and the elevation will affect how many homeruns are hit at any particular location, but it's not even close to the differences in different racetracks.

so, while other sports have one-on-one play each game on more or less identical venues, which leads to championships being held at virtually identical venues, racing has one-on-42 competition every week at venues which require significantly different strategies...the best way to determine the a racing championship is to place an equal emphasis on every single race throughout the season.

this new system does not do that...whatever point differences are between each of the drivers in the top ten will be changed to 5 points between each spot, which places an increased emphasis on the final 10 races, instead of using the performance of the entire season.
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I have to agree with you, and I STILL don't believe the point system for the championship needed fixin!
 
Originally posted by Lap3Forever@Jul 16 2004, 09:36 PM
all i got to say if over the next fell races Robby does really well but is not in the top 10......but over the last few races, wins a few and could have been in the top 5 or 10 at the end of the year but gets 11th.......im goin crazy
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Old system.........Robby hasn't a chance in Hades. This system, he has an outside shot.

All the years I've been watching NASCAR cup racing the Championship was more often than not the most disappointing. This new system may not change a thing but it's got some promise in concept.

It's not fun to see someone gather up a huge points lead then lay back and not even try to win because that would make it necessary to take a chance. Why race hard when all you have to do is finish..........or why race hard because even if you do DNF you still have it locked up. Sure, bragging rights about having that luxury, but I'm not interested in bragging rights. I want to see a driver win..........all 36 points races (plus two non-points races) if possible. The old system encouraged laying back..........also called points racing.
 
It's not fun to see someone gather up a huge points lead then lay back and not even try to win because that would make it necessary to take a chance.
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it might not be as fun to watch, but isn't that sytem a more accurate guage of who performed well over the course of the entire season? ideally, isn't the driver and team that performed the best for the entire season the one that should get the championship? the old system, for whatever entertainment flaws it had, was simply more fair to the competitors.

why should someone that performed badly compared to the leader in the first 26 races, and maybe falls 400, 500, or more points behind be essentially given hundreds of points? sure, it'll make the championship battle more "entertaining," but how is it fair?

if they wanted to make adjustments to the number of points awarded, that would have been cool...but not counting all the races is unfair, does not dictate that the best driver will win the championship, and is in place solely to try to get increased media attention against football.

i keep on hearing "just give it a chance," but i'm not sure what i'm supposed to give it a chance to do...

this will just bring about a different kind of startegy...one thing i can think of is instead of not racing hard the last few races, this could encourage some drivers to not race hard once they're pretty much guaranteed to be in the c4c...lay back for the last 5 or 10 races, or lay back from race 16 or 21 through race 26...i don't see much difference. i believe the best way to discourage less point racing is to give less money for the championship. they give too much money for the championship...my plan would call for MAYBE a million dollars to the championship, but preferably "only" $500,000...all the way down to around $25,000 for tenth, and nothing for 11th on back. instead, tack on about $250,000 to the winner's check in each race, about $125,000 more for second, and $75,000 for third, with all other spots paying what they pay right now.

the teams "point race" because that's where the money is...if the real money was in race winnings, there wouldn't be an incentive to lay back in any of the 36 races on the schedule.
 
Originally posted by DE_Wrangler_2@Jul 17 2004, 12:07 AM


BTW, someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I believe the rule is anyone within 400 points of the leader is illegible for the chase.
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You're wrong. Lap3 is the only one illegible for the chase. :XXROFL:

I know what you meant, by the way. Just couldn't pass that one up.
 
I have to reserve judgement for this until the end of the season. I have to see how it plays out once to see if it is just a gimmick or if it really improves the sport. At first i was dead against it, but i'm a little more open to it now.
 
Originally posted by Mopardh9@Jul 17 2004, 06:06 AM
I have to reserve judgement for this until the end of the season. I have to see how it plays out once to see if it is just a gimmick or if it really improves the sport. At first i was dead against it, but i'm a little more open to it now.
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See this was my feeling from the get-go...if it's not broke....but now at least I'm hopefully curious about the end result.

I was like Dino before...whoever won, won. But now it seems that there 'could' be a lot more drama for the win.

I just keep thinking of a 'comeback kid' barely making it under the 400 mark, then actually winning the thing. Many may not like it, many would undoubtedly call b.s....but it sure would be interesting to watch!

EVERYBODY loves an underdog!
 
Originally posted by EatMorePossum@Jul 16 2004, 12:34 PM
To borrow a line from Rusty's sponser...

"It's a travesty, and a sham, and a mockery! It's a traveshamockery!!"
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No making up words.



I'm a big Everham fan and am really enjoying watching Jeramy and Kasey try and fight there way in. As the cutoff comes closer, I imagine it will only get more exciting.

What if both points systems were used. Keep the old system to determin a point champ and use the new playoff system to determin the winner of a bonus given to the driver that wins the playoff. I'm sure you could even find a sponser to cover it. Say the Shick Bonus.
 
Originally posted by DE_Wrangler_2+Jul 17 2004, 12:17 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (DE_Wrangler_2 @ Jul 17 2004, 12:17 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Lap3Forever@Jul 16 2004, 09:36 PM
all i got to say if over the next fell races Robby does really well but is not in the top 10......but over the last few races, wins a few and could have been in the top 5 or 10 at the end of the year but gets 11th.......im goin crazy
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Old system.........Robby hasn't a chance in Hades. This system, he has an outside shot.

All the years I've been watching NASCAR cup racing the Championship was more often than not the most disappointing. This new system may not change a thing but it's got some promise in concept.

It's not fun to see someone gather up a huge points lead then lay back and not even try to win because that would make it necessary to take a chance. Why race hard when all you have to do is finish..........or why race hard because even if you do DNF you still have it locked up. Sure, bragging rights about having that luxury, but I'm not interested in bragging rights. I want to see a driver win..........all 36 points races (plus two non-points races) if possible. The old system encouraged laying back..........also called points racing. [/b][/quote]
I have to agree with you here. We know for certain that with the new points system, all the drivers in the top ten will be racing hard all season long. You might think that anyone outside the top ten will just go through the motions for the last ten races, cause they aren't in it. But, I think pride will keep them racing hard cause they aren't gonna want to get left in the dust by ten drivers who have something to race for. Like I said, if anything, it will certainly lead to some hard racing that will be really fun to watch.
 
I think the drivers outside the top 10 will have more to race for. They are there to prove the rest wrong, that they could have gotten inside the top 10 under the old system. The main thing is holding up the winners trophy each race. That is the one thing all 43 want and want it bad.
 
Originally posted by Smoke@Jul 17 2004, 01:15 PM
We know for certain that with the new points system, all the drivers in the top ten will be racing hard all season long. You might think that anyone outside the top ten will just go through the motions for the last ten races, cause they aren't in it. But, I think pride will keep them racing hard cause they aren't gonna want to get left in the dust by ten drivers who have something to race for. Like I said, if anything, it will certainly lead to some hard racing that will be really fun to watch.
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Of course everyone will be wanting to win the races...there's still the winnings from each race...I'd race pretty hard for that kind of money regardless of whether I was in contention for the chamopionship or not.
 
I know it hasn't happened yet,am trying to give it a fair chance,but still think the new point system will stink.NASCAR must have a lot of doubts about it also,notice that the new point system is not being utilized in the Busch or CTS Series?
I was in favor of the 5 extra point to each race winner,so that the 2nd place driver,by leading most laps,couldn't get the same amount of points as the race winner,that never seemed right to Me anyway,but then NASCAR had to go and try to overhaul the whole dang system that wasn't necessary.
Thise Top 10 point leader teams will work diligently and hard for every point amassed over the first 26 races only to watch that dwindle to -5 to like -45 points behind leader,the advantage all basically out the window,so that NASCAR can entertain Us,ITHO. :p
 
only thing we have really seen make a diffrence is the 5 extra bonus points, which I think is great. Everyone ( well most fans) wanted to see the leader get more points.

As far is the big change, cannot really comment on it yet. Because we havent seen it happen yet. Have to wait until the season is over.
 
i don't know how it encourages all drivers to race hard all season long...i think there's a bit more incentive for those that are in the top ten to take it easy as race 26 gets closer to save/maintain their best equipment for the final 10 races, especially if they're not in a position to lose any spots in the pre-championship points...but even if they might lose one or two spots. if i was a championship-oriented team, i would think it might be worth losing 5 or 10 points to make sure i save the best equipment for the championship run...what good would it do to risk wrecking a driver's favorite car, thus lowering the chances of winning in the last 10 races, for 5 or 10 measely points?

also, if the point leader has a sizable lead going into race 20 or so, one that's sizable enough to not lose the top spot with middle-of-the-pack finishes, and he has a teammate running 11th or 12th, about 500 points back, there could be an increased emphasis on laying back to allow the teammate to get within 400 points. let's say, for example, jimmie has a 200 point advantage over second place after race 23 and terry is running 11th, 600 points back...wouldn't it be in hendrick's best interest to put johnson in some of the teams worse cars and tell him to finish poorly (just good enough to stay in first) in the next three races in order to get labonte within 400 points? 1. you save the 48 team's best equipment to run for the championship. 2. there would be no risk of losing any ground in the championship battle. and 3. you take one of your teams out of the chase for 11th and add another team racing for the championship.

also, i believe the c4c system could result in some teams ensuring their championship contenders get all of the teams' best cars at the expense of all of that owner's teams that aren't in the hunt...if you're robert yates and sadler's in the top ten and jarrett isn't after race 26, why give jarrett race winners when elliott needs all the best cars to try for the championship? if i'm an owner, i don't want any of my non-contending drivers finishing higher up than my contending drivers, because that would be a waste of points...

none of these scenarios might surface this year, but the possibility increases, and i'm sure that some championship in the not too distant future would include some elements of the worse case scenarios.

but the underlying gripe to all of this is this...and this should be what each individual considers when sorting out their opinions on brian france's changes...what should be the reason for having a championship in the first place? should it exist to crown the best team and driver, or should it exist to attract media attention and increase drama?

it's your desicion to make...i'm just trying to ask questions that'll help in your opinion-making process.
 
Well if you are Nascar and France you love this because you are making MONEY off of it. That is the point after all if you are Nascar to make as much as possible.
 
Hate it. No need to fiddle with potential scenarios. The first couple posts by Racefan against nascare pretty much restates my thoughts on the matter. If my old posts from last fall/winter/spring are still around, you can read the same thoughts.

It's a joke.
 
Best thing to do would be to do away with points all together. Then you got 43 drivers going all out every race. No encouragement to race tentive or bring your wad back on the track to just circle the bottom of the speedway. Checkers or wreckers every week.
 
Yeah, lets do away with points all together.........a track full of field fillers!! :XXROFL:
 
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