New Rule For ALL 3 Series

kat2220

kat2220

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Tire Pressures Now A Rule
The minimum has now become mandatory. Beginning this weekend, NASCAR has made the Goodyear recommended minimum air pressure in right-front tires mandatory for all three of its top-three series – Nextel Cup, Busch and Craftsman Trucks. The right-front tire pressure will be measured and recorded by a NASCAR official before the start of each race. Then, when cars pit during the race, a NASCAR official must measure and record the air pressure of the right-front tire before it is changed during a pit stop. "Taking into consideration what we've been dealing with on and off all summer, we just decided to get with Goodyear, our tire supplier, and help them police and regulate what they feel is a safe tire pressure to run," said Robin Pemberton, NASCAR's vice president for competition.(That's Racin')
 
I think there are too many rules now... gear rules, impounds, tire pressure, shocks.... just stupid in my opinion
 
HUTfan said:
I think there are too many rules now... gear rules, impounds, tire pressure, shocks.... just stupid in my opinion
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I agree 100%.....the drivers/crew chiefs are smart enough to handle that
themselves.....
 
Unfortunately, the drivers and crew chiefs are not smart enough to handle things themselves and NASCAR has to step in with more rules, not only to try and control the costs for the owners, but to keep the boys from killing themselves and each other.
 
They have been doing it for years..I see no reason to change that...
are the drivers/crewchiefs doing something differently of late to make Nascar think
they need to control it?
 
Yes and years of doing it gaining bits here and bits there has taken them to the edge of sanity at times. WTH, the CC's are sitting in the cars having to smack the walls but they're the ones that will gamble radicile setups. As you keep expanding the bounds in one area, you end up taking other areas to or over their limits.
I think it's a good thing NASCAR is keeping an eye on it and trying to keep things under control.
They come up with new metal formulas that can take added RPM and these guys have to push it to it's breaking point. Then you have engines blowing all over the place oiling down the track and wrecking cars. There have been far fewer engines exploding since the gear rule.
Goodyear can make tires to last a lot longer using harder compounds like our street cars but then they'd be blowing out because of the heat build up because the rubber wasn't wearing away cooling the tire. Tires are also designed and tested using certain air pressures to give the sidewalls certain strength. CC's found if they could play with the air pressure a bit it would change the handling of the car, so now you have them going to extremes trying to gain an edge over their competitors but WTH they're not in the cars. But everyone wants to scream at goodyear because there's tire trouble.
You are correct that CC's have been manipulating things for a long time and I think it is good to do that. BUT you must use logic and common sense when making these decisions and not be willing to go to far over the line for the sake of winning. Sure you may get by with it a bunch of times But there is always the chance serious injury can occur because of it. The fact that in reality there are so few incidents of failure even when most every team is abusing recomendations attest to the actual quality of the products.
 
Getting closer and closer to an IROC-type affair. Damn sad. Maybe even have NASCAR schooled and certified crew chiefs and pit crews. Don't ever attempt anything outside the box.
 
It's just putting a floor on the tire pressure, alot of cars already run their setups at recommended minimums. This will only affect a few teams I think.
 
bumpzter said:
Getting closer and closer to an IROC-type affair. Damn sad. Maybe even have NASCAR schooled and certified crew chiefs and pit crews. Don't ever attempt anything outside the box.
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Well if they could guarantee every race to be like the IROC one today I would be fine with it. Equal cars, its up to the driver to get it done.
 
lets just go back to good 'ole 1970's type racing. Duke it out for the win, be it using fists or cars.
 
Magnethead said:
lets just go back to good 'ole 1970's type racing. Duke it out for the win, be it using fists or cars.
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So Magnet, are you suggesting that the full face helmet, Hans Device, Safer Walls, hood and deck tethers, and other mandated safety devices be tossed out?
IMHO, Nascar has made safety related rules to PROTECT LIVES.

Carry on..................................
 
So many fans seem to forget that not all that many years ago, it wasn't unusual for the winning car at any event to be two, three, four or more laps ahead of the second place finisher and for less than half of the starting field to have been able to make the entire program.

So many fans seem to forget that not all that many years ago, there might be two or three teams with any real chance of winning at any given event; the rest? Well...
maybe if the real teams broke or wrecked; they might get lucky.

So many fans are still upset about Adam, Kenny, and Dale; they blame the race track, they blame the officials, but they fail to realize that only two things cause a crash on any race track. Either mechanical malfunction or human error.

So many fans would turn back the clock on all of the advances which have been made in racing over the last century, and yet I can recall being told to never get too close to anyone you met at the racetrack because the odds were about 50/50 they might not be around by the end of the season.

Look for NASCAR to step up enforcement of their rules concerning rough driving and unnecessary contact in the coming season.

Some of these newer kids simply do not know how to drive a race car without using it as a weapon.
All they know is "stab it and steer", and they can't even get that right half the time.
No respect for themselves, their fellow competitors, nor the equipment that their rich owners provide them, and when they break, crash, or screw up at all, they have yet to learn how to accept the blame.
There's always someone else to point your finger at (usually the middle one) and whine, cry, curse and threaten.

Oh yeah, and look for creative crew chiefs and engineers to continue to find ways around any new rules which NASCAR may come up with; NASCAR to continue to come up with new rules to cover those creative endeavors and the fans to continue to whine, cry, bitch, piss and moan about everything which happens, but they'll still spend their money on tickets, souviners and sponsor products and find the time to watch the circus whenever it's in town or on TV, the rich will get richer, the poor will get poorer and life goes on.

Ain't it great??
 
Crew chiefs smart enough to handle things by themselves ???????
You must be kidding !!!!!! Intelligence and common sense have little to do with it. Everything is centered around one thing and one thing only, winning !!!!!!
There was a time when a driver even used two by fours as a form of weight reduction and more recently, full face helmets and HANS devices were shunned by many, until three popular drivers lost thier lives. That got the attention of everyone and fans as well as owners and rivers were glad to see NASCAR step in and make the necessary regulations.
No, the good old days were not what they are cracked up to be.
Crew chiefs are not mentally challenged, but more inclined to do whatever it takes to win. No consideration of consequences is given to decisions other than if it will give an advantage to win and what will happen if we get caught.

There are times when NASCAR does need to step in and create and enforce rules and regulations. Tire pressure is one of them.
 
Anybody else remember things like black iron water pipe for rollcages?

Or even one time at a convertible race when a driver showed up with a rollbar made of wooden 2x4"'s?

How about extra gasoline stored in the rollcage?

Nitrous canisters in the driver's fire suit?

Mercury in the left side frame rails?
(This one should have gotten the offenders at least a dozen or more life sentences in a Turkish jail and several eternities in the worst sort of Hell anyone can imagine.)

And we could probably come up with a bunch of other really stupid things which those crewchiefs have tried over the years in their quest of the winning advantage.

Running flat tires is just the latest "hot set-up".

So please don't try to convince me that the competitors are anywhere near capable of policing themselves.

They're not...

It's not just the money either, it's the winning thing that's needed to feed the large egos involved.
 
This low air pressure thing is a red herring. Nothing has been proven conclusively. When they called everyone in to raise, or check, the pressures at Charlotte, it didn't do any good. Tires kept on blowing.

And yes. I remember the good old days too. They sucked in most respects. But damn it, racing was fun. Not the almost scripted events like today's NASCAR big shows. Artificial cautions. Delays to coincide with TV coverage. Identical cars. Cloned drivers next?

I never thought this would happen, but my interest is fading.
 
my point.

NASCAR is about as scripted as Days of our Lives. And with all the debris cautions: SHOW ME THE DEBRIS! oh wait, they must be talking about the debris resulting from something coming loose in somebody's head. With the "Car of tomorrow", we might as well rename it the IROC2 series.
 
Yep Bumpzter, the tires kept on blowing.
Probably because of the spring and shock package along with the overly aggressive geometry being used.

There's a very good reason for running those tires so soft; it lets the car use the tire sidewalls for its suspension system instead of relying totally on the springs and shocks.

It also causes the tires to overrun the tread, overheat and blowout or simply melt the tire bead off the rim.

There is also a very good reason why the tire manufacturer has a recommended minimun tire pressure; in order to minimize or prevent that from happening.

As for the scripting of any NASCAR event, I've been around for a whole lotta years, both in the garage and pits and in the pressbox and media centers, and have yet to figure out just how they're able to do that.
I must just be completely blind, deaf and dumb or somethin' I guess?
There's too many people with too many big egos around for something of that nature to work.

Just one other point here, if I might.
How would someone born in 1989 know what racing was like in the 1970's?
The first flag to flag coverage of a NASCAR race was televised on ABC sometime around 1960, one of the Daytona Qualifying events, I believe, but that was a delayed broadcast and the first live flag to flag coverage came in 1979. CBS gave us that years Daytona 500, thank you Ken Squier.
So where has this youngster seen all these 1970's races which he feels were so much better than what we have today?
I wonder?
 
boB said:
I must just be completely blind, deaf and dumb or somethin'
Click to expand...
Careful, boB. I don't think you're the kind of guy who wants others to agree with you. :) J/K

boB said:
Just one other point here, if I might.
How would someone born in 1989 know what racing was like in the 1970's?
Click to expand...
Who are you taking about?
 
The name of the game is "winning"......not crashing or a DNF.....
the drivers/crewchiefs are smart enough to take it to the edge with
the least amount of risk and win. They don't need Nascar to regulate
every aspect of the race/car etc......they all want to win and I believe
they all have the intelligence/ability to set a car up and take it to victory lane.
 
bumpzter said:
Careful, boB. I don't think you're the kind of guy who wants others to agree with you. :) J/K

Who are you taking about?
Click to expand...

Magnethead has his DOB listed as 1989 and he's talking about how great the racing was back in the 1970's.
I have to wonder how he'd have any idea at all what the racing was like twenty years before he was born.

As far as the intelligence of those crew chiefs and drivers dsdjtlts, did you read any of the other posts on this thread?
Sometimes those intelligent guys get carried away with the will to win and forget all about the safety of themselves and everyone else around them. It's been that way since the wheel was invented and will probably continue that way until humans are extinct.

It would seem that even everday life has to have rules, which are amended and re-written quite often; new rules (laws) imposed constantly, and still folks find ways to get around them.
God gave mankind ten rules to live by and mankind has felt the need to add thousands of his own over the centuries.

Human nature might have a something to do with it?
Do you suppose?
 
Actually boB I don't believe crew chiefs want their driver crashed, out of the race or worse yet hurt....yes they will push it, thats racin'.....
 
I never said that I thought a crew chief wanted anybody to get hurt or worse.

I merely pointed out that there have been, and most certainly will continue to be, instances where the safety and well being of not only their driver, but the safety and well being of everyone else on the track, in the pits and even in the grandstands, has been overlooked in an attempt to find a "winning combination".

Don't kid yourself, most of these guys will lie, cheat, steal and hock their grandmothers gold teeth in order to race. Probably most of the old timers have.
The new kids show up with a pretty face and ham it up for the camera and they've got a first class ride. Or at least it appears to be that way.

But it's still just part of that ego thing I mentioned.
 
:eek: :eek: My My..boB I can't argue with anything you have said.... :eek: :eek: :D
I still don't think Nascar needs to regulate tire pressure--crew chiefs have been doing it for years--they know where the line is---I don't think they cross it for safety reasons.
Nascar has just plain gotten silly with all the rules/regulations of late.
 
dsdjtlts said:
:eek: :eek: My My..boB I can't argue with anything you have said.... :eek: :eek: :D
I still don't think Nascar needs to regulate tire pressure--crew chiefs have been doing it for years--they know where the line is---I don't think they cross it for safety reasons.
Nascar has just plain gotten silly with all the rules/regulations of late.
Click to expand...

I don't think so dsd. Let's face it, you and I are not engineers nor are we personally involved in the sport. We are FANS.
Rules, laws, minds and situations change for each of us on a regular basis and I doubt it's ever going to change.
Push the envelope? Sure, and if nobody tries then it gets old pretty fast.
The only guarantees in life are change and taxes.
 
They ...the crew chiefs ...push the envelope all the time on anything they can get away with. The tire issue is just one of many, however, i do think that Good Year has had some problems with their tires this year and that the envelope being pushed isn't entirely to blame for all the tire problems.
 
I agree Goodyear has a few problems with their tires and Nascar feels the need to regulate tire pressure to help with the tire issues, that's fine-- I still think it's silly,
and I do believe the driver/crewchiefs can handle it just fine.

I don't need to be an engineer to express an opinion.
 
Race teams at this level have a lot of technical expertise. It's not all up to a crew chief with limited intelligence :growl: who cares about nothing but winning.

And I also suspect that NASCAR is trying to protect Goodyear's ass by trying to shift the focus away from the real problems.
 
dsdjtlts said:
I agree 100%.....the drivers/crew chiefs are smart enough to handle that
themselves.....
Click to expand...

Earnhart Sr. used to say that the HANS device would get him killed. "That damned noose" he called it, as I recall. Suprise. Suprise. If someone had gotten killed at the BlowOut 500 we wouldn't be having this discussion.
 
Professur said:
Earnhart Sr. used to say that the HANS device would get him killed. "That damned noose" he called it, as I recall. Suprise. Suprise. If someone had gotten killed at the BlowOut 500 we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Click to expand...
I remember the day Dale died--I asked a billion questions as to why/how something
so horrid could have happened--one of the questions I asked was "Why the hell didn't Nascar do more to protect him."

Nuff said...........
 
Dale Earnhardt refused to use a full face helmet, he also ignored Bill Simpson, the manufacturer of the seat belts used in his car, when Bill told him that those belts were improperly installed. Dale said that's the way he'd always installed the belts and he hadn't been killed yet.

Well, guess what fans; "Old Ironhead" proved all those folks right when he hit the wall at Daytona.

Of course that was completely the fault of NASCAR because they had let him get away with his dirty driving and his refusal to comply with rules for years because he was the number one money maker for their top series.

Don't you believe it for a minute! At some point in any walk of life, people have to accept the responsiblity for their own mistakes.
Earnhardt found that out the hard way one Sunday afternoon in Turn Four; in front of a packed house and live on television.

NASCAR changed and added a bunch of rules as a result.

Let's leave it at that.
 
I imagine today's pretty boy money makers get away with stuff too.
 
boB said:
Dale Earnhardt refused to use a full face helmet, he also ignored Bill Simpson, the manufacturer of the seat belts used in his car, when Bill told him that those belts were improperly installed. Dale said that's the way he'd always installed the belts and he hadn't been killed yet.

Well, guess what fans; "Old Ironhead" proved all those folks right when he hit the wall at Daytona.

Of course that was completely the fault of NASCAR because they had let him get away with his dirty driving and his refusal to comply with rules for years because he was the number one money maker for their top series.

Don't you believe it for a minute! At some point in any walk of life, people have to accept the responsiblity for their own mistakes.
Earnhardt found that out the hard way one Sunday afternoon in Turn Four; in front of a packed house and live on television.

NASCAR changed and added a bunch of rules as a result.

Let's leave it at that.
Click to expand...

I agree.
Where I work we have mandatory safety meetings every month.
Bottom line: You are ultimately responsible for your own safety.
 
bumpzter said:
Race teams at this level have a lot of technical expertise. It's not all up to a crew chief with limited intelligence :growl: who cares about nothing but winning.

And I also suspect that NASCAR is trying to protect Goodyear's ass by trying to shift the focus away from the real problems.
Click to expand...
Well, it seems to me this "limited intelligence" keeps Nascar on it's toes.
 
dsd,

Through over four pages on this thread, you've argued that NASCAR has too many rules.
That the drivers and crewchiefs are capable of staying within the bounds of reason and safety.

Then you say that NASCAR did not do enough to keep Earnhardt from killing himself?
 
boB said:
dsd,

Through over four pages on this thread, you've argued that NASCAR has too many rules.
That the drivers and crewchiefs are capable of staying within the bounds of reason and safety.

Then you say that NASCAR did not do enough to keep Earnhardt from killing himself?
Click to expand...
Yes boB when I was reminded about Dale's death, I got a bit more perspective on the subject.....Nascar did not do enough to protect him...NOW they are, and while I think Nascar is a bit silly at times--I guess I would rather have them err on the side of safety.
 
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