Next Gen Affiliates

Revman

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So, just thinking about affiliates, and the Next Gen. What will they look like moving forward with the Next Gen? Will levels of service be exclusively intellectual property?
 

LewTheShoe

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I've been wondering about this as well, and the closely related question of how much the teams will be willing to race true spec cars versus trying to sneak some "improvements" through the inspection process. I mean, creative rule breaking is pretty deeply imbedded in the Nascar culture. It won't change unless Nascar works aggressively to change it, and backs that up with some pretty severe penalties for getting caught.

I hope we don't get the situation where cheating can be accomplished, but only by the most sophisticated R&D efforts backed up by F1-style budgets. I hope we don't, but I fear we might.
 

Team Penske

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Speed costs money.

How fast do you want to go?
Given the same car to each team means the big spenders will be on top
and budgets will determine the order of finish. It could be that a driver could elevate a team but not by a heck of a lot. DE elevated RCR and there have been a few other drivers do the same but they are few and far between.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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IF, and it's a huge IF, the car is more dependent on mechanical grip and the suspension allows crew chiefs room to adjust to a driver's liking, then I think the alliances will be more based in setups. With the box being much narrower due to common parts, etc, I think the big budget teams will distance themselves even farther because smaller gains will be more significant. (Penske, HMS, JGR)
 

ChexOrWrex

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IF, and it's a huge IF, the car is more dependent on mechanical grip and the suspension allows crew chiefs room to adjust to a driver's liking, then I think the alliances will be more based in setups. With the box being much narrower due to common parts, etc, I think the big budget teams will distance themselves even farther because smaller gains will be more significant. (Penske, HMS, JGR)
Calling it now. Between NASCAR’s insistent marketing that the car will “even” the field out more and it being a brand new car that nobody has seen, there will be 2-4 teams that hit on setups and dominate the entire season. The opposite of what NASCAR says will happen, will happen.

Shades of Matt Kenseth and Jimmie Johnson in 2013 when the Gen 6 had it’s first season.
 

KTMLew01

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Calling it now. Between NASCAR’s insistent marketing that the car will “even” the field out more and it being a brand new car that nobody has seen, there will be 2-4 teams that hit on setups and dominate the entire season. The opposite of what NASCAR says will happen, will happen.

Shades of Matt Kenseth and Jimmie Johnson in 2013 when the Gen 6 had it’s first season.
Plus there will be reoccurring parts failures much like the cable driven fuel pumps. They don't know what they don't know. Will rear wheel bearings hold-up to 400-500 miles on high-banked tracks? Rear axles? Do they have sufficient air flow to the HUGE brake rotors? Completely new wiring harnesses. Lots of things will go wrong. It's a part of progress.
 

StandOnIt

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Plus there will be reoccurring parts failures much like the cable driven fuel pumps. They don't know what they don't know. Will rear wheel bearings hold-up to 400-500 miles on high-banked tracks? Rear axles? Do they have sufficient air flow to the HUGE brake rotors? Completely new wiring harnesses. Lots of things will go wrong. It's a part of progress.
I think so too that they will have minor problems at first. Nascar has had very few catastrophic failures with every change in generations of cars. I can't see the change being 100% seamless but I don't see a race that will cripple the whole field. That's only happened once when Goodyear got caught off guard with a very rough track surface at Indy years ago.
I am not positive that all parts will do this, but what I read about the chassis is that they go to Nascar first and Nascar releases them to the teams. Could be more parts and pieces than that. :idunno:
 

Spotter22

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I think so too that they will have minor problems at first. Nascar has had very few catastrophic failures with every change in generations of cars. I can't see the change being 100% seamless but I don't see a race that will cripple the whole field. That's only happened once when Goodyear got caught off guard with a very rough track surface at Indy years ago.
I am not positive that all parts will do this, but what I read about the chassis is that they go to Nascar first and Nascar releases them to the teams. Could be more parts and pieces than that. :idunno:
Here is the full list

 

StandOnIt

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Here is the full list

Yeah that is a list of suppliers, I was talking about shiping parts and pieces first to Nascar and dispersing those to teams. I don't think there is a list of that happening.

In my dream world I would like to see Nascar to get the important parts first, inspect them, put their ID inspection marks on them and send them on to the teams.
There was plenty of reasons for Nascar to get the frames first. Teams are allowed to only have so many, they have to be approved after an accident to buy more. I'm thinking it could be for safety also, Xray and inspect the welds.
 

aunty dive

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Pretty sure the QC program at Technique covers the inspection of welds.

Starcom is putting a new car together in their shop. If they have one, you can be sure every other charter team has one as well.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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Calling it now. Between NASCAR’s insistent marketing that the car will “even” the field out more and it being a brand new car that nobody has seen, there will be 2-4 teams that hit on setups and dominate the entire season. The opposite of what NASCAR says will happen, will happen.

Shades of Matt Kenseth and Jimmie Johnson in 2013 when the Gen 6 had it’s first season.
I may be grasping at straws, but I see that being Penske early on since they have an Aussie v8 Supercar team, off which much of the next gen car is based.
 

KTMLew01

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I may be grasping at straws, but I see that being Penske early on since they have an Aussie v8 Supercar team, off which much of the next gen car is based.
BLASPHAMY! THIS CAR IS 100% BRAND NEW. IT HAS BOLTLESS BOLTS! NEW TECHNOLOGY! LOTS AND LOTS OF NEW TECHNOLOGY! NEVER USED BEFORE TECHNOLOGY!

Or so I've heard.
 

aunty dive

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I may be grasping at straws, but I see that being Penske early on since they have an Aussie v8 Supercar team, off which much of the next gen car is based.
That team is no longer but you are correct ... those cars are the parents.
 

Spotter22

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Yeah that is a list of suppliers, I was talking about shiping parts and pieces first to Nascar and dispersing those to teams. I don't think there is a list of that happening.

In my dream world I would like to see Nascar to get the important parts first, inspect them, put their ID inspection marks on them and send them on to the teams.
There was plenty of reasons for Nascar to get the frames first. Teams are allowed to only have so many, they have to be approved after an accident to buy more. I'm thinking it could be for safety also, Xray and inspect the welds.
Ok sorry misunderstood. Im certain NASCAR has inspectors to police the production of the parts and pieces and the companies had to sign an agreement that any hanky panky would terminate the contract and civil suits could be brought.
 

StandOnIt

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Pretty sure the QC program at Technique covers the inspection of welds.

Starcom is putting a new car together in their shop. If they have one, you can be sure every other charter team has one as well.
robots make mistakes along with the operator, not to mention steel quality. Nascar release the chassis right after they were approved by the final safety panel awhile back
 

sdj

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Just a thought, like the Ford GT40's in the late 60's, wouldn't Nascar car run closed circuit mock races on all the different type Nascar approved tracks to make sure the components hold up, before they hand out the cars? Like, 500 miles at Daytona, full race at the most demanding road course, 500 miles at Bristol etc. I mean run the sh*t out of them like an actual race pit stops and all.

Or does this make too much sense?

Baby smoking.gif
 

aunty dive

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robots make mistakes along with the operator, not to mention steel quality. Nascar release the chassis right after they were approved by the final safety panel awhile back

What is your point?

Are you suggesting the manufacturer isn’t running an ISO 9000 series quality control program?

Those systems do not rely on robots for inspection and steel suppliers must provide mill certificates for every steel shipment.
 

StandOnIt

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What is your point?

Are you suggesting the manufacturer isn’t running an ISO 9000 series quality control program? No


Those systems do not rely on robots for inspection and steel suppliers must provide mill certificates for every steel shipment. Robots are doing the welding they make mistakes. It's fairly rare but not all steel is the same. Recently a train car axle after it failed and caused a derailment was found to have a bubble in it across the width
 

wi_racefan

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I think the more testing and practice you allow the less need there is for affiliates, with at least an initial increase in that for next year the need shouldn't be as large. IMO the main reason that most of these smaller teams aligned themselves with bigger teams was to get sim data. If you have practice and testing you don't need sim data to tell you what X change will make. You just make X change and take it out on the track and see.
 

StandOnIt

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I think the more testing and practice you allow the less need there is for affiliates, with at least an initial increase in that for next year the need shouldn't be as large. IMO the main reason that most of these smaller teams aligned themselves with bigger teams was to get sim data. If you have practice and testing you don't need sim data to tell you what X change will make. You just make X change and take it out on the track and see.
I'm thinking it will tighten up the field some. A sharp crew/driver can get close on the setup and they may not have a big buck motor, but they can stay in the game with a good handling car and driver. If it was me, I would be looking for really good road race drivers.
 

aunty dive

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I think the more testing and practice you allow the less need there is for affiliates, with at least an initial increase in that for next year the need shouldn't be as large. IMO the main reason that most of these smaller teams aligned themselves with bigger teams was to get sim data. If you have practice and testing you don't need sim data to tell you what X change will make. You just make X change and take it out on the track and see.
Simulation data helps get the car ready to go to the track.

Practice time is not unlimited. Teams need to show up with a good baseline.
 

aunty dive

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And / or set up to match known wheel loads from the current cars. You have to start somewhere if you’re not paying others for sim info.

You need is a pull-down rig to accomplish that.
 

wi_racefan

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Simulation data helps get the car ready to go to the track.

Practice time is not unlimited. Teams need to show up with a good baseline.
With so many standard parts I think the baseline will be pretty well determined

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Ford 222

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Spotter22

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Is RCR Manufacturing Childress? I noticed Roush has lots of things from the Roush Industries and Roush-Yates companies. Wonder if they will sub some work out to Kez Industries?
Roush has done a lot of Greenhouse work for the series and had already been supplying the roof flaps and hatches so it was a Natural fit. I dont think RCR is fitting the cars with anything that I know of.
 

Dr_B_UNC

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Is RCR Manufacturing Childress? I noticed Roush has lots of things from the Roush Industries and Roush-Yates companies. Wonder if they will sub some work out to Kez Industries?
Roush-Yates makes engines for all different Ford racing series with factory support (per a friend that works there.)
 

Ford 222

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Roush-Yates makes engines for all different Ford racing series with factory support (per a friend that works there.)
Uh yeah...Engines were not on the list so I assume those will remain the same. I could be mistaken or missed it.

The Roush Yates MFG Solutions on the list will supply Anti Roll Bars, Shifter, Transaxle Mounts, Uprights/Wheel hubs. Just saying Roush (and Yates) have some input on what makes this new car. More than just the engines and roof flaps I knew of before.
 

Ford 222

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Roush has done a lot of Greenhouse work for the series and had already been supplying the roof flaps and hatches so it was a Natural fit. I dont think RCR is fitting the cars with anything that I know of.
When you say "greenhouse work", what does that entail? I just knew he supplied the roof flaps for Nascar?
 

Spotter22

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Uh yeah...Engines were not on the list so I assume those will remain the same. I could be mistaken or missed it.

The Roush Yates MFG Solutions on the list will supply Anti Roll Bars, Shifter, Transaxle Mounts, Uprights/Wheel hubs. Just saying Roush (and Yates) have some input on what makes this new car. More than just the engines and roof flaps I knew of before.
Somebody was gonna win the bid and Roush Yates got the deal.
 

Ford 222

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Driver area
Not trying to be an idiot but does that mean roll cage, steering column, dash, etc? I'd have thought the chassis (Technique Chassis LLC) would be building all that? I pictured the chassis to be what everything else is installed onto?
 

Ford 222

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Somebody was gonna win the bid and Roush Yates got the deal.
If failures happen on opposing team cars does it turn into a conspiracy theory? Kinda surprised NASCAR would allow them to be involved other than for the "Ford" teams?
 

StandOnIt

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If failures happen on opposing team cars does it turn into a conspiracy theory? Kinda surprised NASCAR would allow them to be involved other than for the "Ford" teams?
That is why I was wondering if Nascar handed out the parts randomly to teams to prevent that like they are doing with the chassis.
 

Spotter22

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Not trying to be an idiot but does that mean roll cage, steering column, dash, etc? I'd have thought the chassis (Technique Chassis LLC) would be building all that? I pictured the chassis to be what everything else is installed onto?
Sorry our wires are crossed, Roush worked in concert with NASCAR on the greenhouse of car before the Gen 7 ( roof flaps, Hatch etc) so it was a Natural fit for them to produce on the Next Gen. No, Roush isnt building the Chassis itself. thats strictly Technique
 

Spotter22

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If failures happen on opposing team cars does it turn into a conspiracy theory? Kinda surprised NASCAR would allow them to be involved other than for the "Ford" teams?
Oh I dont believe so. Failures happen and Roush isnt about to soil his Reputation and Business Empire to win a race.
 
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