No. 48 Team: Fools?

G

GoingGreen

Guest
You're leading the race by half-a-second with 20-some laps to go and you need to pit. So does the second-place machine, but you pit first. If you put on four tires you know the second-place car will put on two, to save gobs of time in the pit box and gain gobs of track position for an easy lead-grab. What does the second-place car have to lose with 20-laps to go, on a track like Indy? Don't take two and you concede the race to the No. 48. The No. 48 made a huge mistake by taking four tires and what gets me is that they had to know Newman would take only two. If I knew it, they didn't? There was no risk in taking two for the No. 48, only dire consequences. Folks are crowing about the savvy Newman team taking only two, but the real talk should be about the No. 48 taking four. That's the shame of it all.
 
ToyYoda said:
Those fools are 75 points up on 2nd place, so I guess they're doing something right.
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I'm a Jimmy fan and just used "Fools" to get some attention and to let off some steam. But we don't want to insinuate that the No. 48 team didn't really want to win or just "settled" for second. These guys want to get to the checkers first each and every time, it's the first priority unless some odd situation makes sense to defer. To me the strategy was so obvious that I can't understand the call to take four balloons. If you take four it's a lead-pipe cinch that the second-place car -- under a second behind -- will take two, with so few laps remaining, to shave almost 7 seconds off their pit time and easily regain the lead. If you don't know that if you take four the other guy will take two, well, then something's strange. Again, this rant is just about the failed strategy to take four when any dummy on his sofa with a Coor's stubbie in hand (like me, for example) new better of it.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It may have been a different story if they didn't have trouble on the right rear.
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Yeah this.

His pit stop was 17 seconds. He could have pitted for 4 tires and still would come out leading by at least a second.

The 48 crew is simply inept during pit stops. That's where they lose most of their races.

17 seconds, you can pit twice for 2 tire and a 4 tire stop and not totaled 17 seconds in a normal pit stop.
 
yeah they lost, screwed up the last stop. But they gained even more points on the rest of them. Even when they screw up, they gain points..kinda frustrating if you are trying to beat them.
 
The idiots who call Chad/Jimmie cheaters and the conspiracy theory morons would have had a field day had a debris caution come out allowing Jimmie to win. haha
 
StandOnIt said:
yeah they lost, screwed up the last stop. But they gained even more points on the rest of them. Even when they screw up, they gain points..kinda frustrating if you are trying to beat them.
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My point -- and maybe I'm not seeing this thing right -- is that they never should have gone with four in the first place. Am I wrong in that Newman was less than a second behind? If Johnson was ahead enough for a four-tire change not to make much difference in the lead time-wise, then I missed that. It looked to me like even if Johnson made a good stop time-wise, a two-tire change would more than compensate for the time difference on the track. Car A takes four in X seconds (more), car B takes two in X seconds (less). Take that difference and car B (Newman) comes out in front.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It may have been a different story if they didn't have trouble on the right rear.
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This. It wasn't just that they took 4, but they botched the right rear. Added an extra 3-4 secs I believe which ended up being the race. The only fools here are the ones who think they've got JJ covered, that 48 team is at a whole other level.

Just a side note, but did anyone else notice a lot of teams having trouble getting the tires on? It seemed like a lot of guys were screwing up specifically on the rears, but maybe that was just me seeing things.
 
Newman was three seconds behind the 48 when Johnson pitted. Four tires was the right call but they botched the stop. It is a rare occasion when the 48 team makes a mistake.
 
GoingGreen said:
My point -- and maybe I'm not seeing this thing right -- is that they never should have gone with four in the first place. Am I wrong in that Newman was less than a second behind? If Johnson was ahead enough for a four-tire change not to make much difference in the lead time-wise, then I missed that. It looked to me like even if Johnson made a good stop time-wise, a two-tire change would more than compensate for the time difference on the track. Car A takes four in X seconds (more), car B takes two in X seconds (less). Take that difference and car B (Newman) comes out in front.
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Welcome to the forum ,by the way, Green . But the theory is ,when you are in second place ,you do the opposite to the leader . If he takes four , you take two , it's your only shot to win . In most every case four will outperform two . Add this to the probability of late race restarts , green,white ,checkers,etc. and four is the way to go for the leader . Sometimes it doesn't work out , but most times it does. If Jimmie had taken two , Ryan would have got four , and a late race restart would have killed Jimmie.
 
stop. the 48 is the is the team to beat, even when screw up the still gain points. they can cost to the chase.
 
The 48 has four wins..plus I can think of 4 other instances if it were not for late race mishaps (re start issues, pit road, rubbing the wall) they could have won....they are in their own zip code right now....
 
Smoke14 said:
Newman was three seconds behind the 48 when Johnson pitted. Four tires was the right call but they botched the stop. It is a rare occasion when the 48 team makes a mistake.
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Three seconds behind? What is the difference time-wise between a decent four-tire change and a decent two-tire change? Is the difference more than three seconds? Going in you assume the pit stop will be business as usual, not way faster than usual and not a lot worse. You pit knowing you've got a three-second lead, but you should also know that if you take four the other guy will take two -- obvious at that point in the race -- and that the difference will probably relieve you of the lead. Was anyone shocked that Newman took two tires? Why did Newman take two tires? Because Johnson took four.
 
GoingGreen said:
Three seconds behind? What is the difference time-wise between a decent four-tire change and a decent two-tire change? Is the difference more than three seconds? Going in you assume the pit stop will be business as usual, not way faster than usual and not a lot worse. You pit knowing you've got a three-second lead, but you should also know that if you take four the other guy will take two -- obvious at that point in the race -- and that the difference will probably relieve you of the lead. Was anyone shocked that Newman took two tires? Why did Newman take two tires? Because Johnson took four.
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The difference between a four tire stop and a two tire stop is not six seconds. Newman was behind three seconds and came out three seconds ahead. The 48 team messed up the pit stop.
 
GoingGreen said:
Three seconds behind? What is the difference time-wise between a decent four-tire change and a decent two-tire change? Is the difference more than three seconds? Going in you assume the pit stop will be business as usual, not way faster than usual and not a lot worse. You pit knowing you've got a three-second lead, but you should also know that if you take four the other guy will take two -- obvious at that point in the race -- and that the difference will probably relieve you of the lead. Was anyone shocked that Newman took two tires? Why did Newman take two tires? Because Johnson took four.
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I don't they thought it would go green to the end, giving them the better tires.
 
Fools???:D No. They had a bad stop and it cost him. I will say though that at a track like Indy and a lot of places we go, there should be a big difference between 4 tires, 2 tires and no tires and there isn't. It doesn't do the racing any favors either.
 
The 48 was what, 3 seconds back at the end? That 3 seconds+ is what was lost on the mistake on pit road. He probably would have had the win if it wasn't for the mistake by the tire-changer, or at least it would have been a much more exciting finish.

I believe Newman took 4 tires the stop before while Johnson took 2, so it makes sense to me that the 48 took 4 on the last stop while the 39 took 2. Plus, with tires, JJ would've had an easier time getting around Newman if a caution had fell. So it wasn't a bad call strategy-wise, it was the mistake by the tire-changer that cost the 48 a shot at the win.
 
reck said:
Yeah this.

His pit stop was 17 seconds. He could have pitted for 4 tires and still would come out leading by at least a second.

The 48 crew is simply inept during pit stops. That's where they lose most of their races.

17 seconds, you can pit twice for 2 tire and a 4 tire stop and not totaled 17 seconds in a normal pit stop.
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Who's the avator?
 
JJ sure was classy about it too, certainly didnt throw his crew under the bus like a lot of other guys might have.

Seems to me that could be the 48's Achilles heel, can the crew perform in the clutch? We know the driver can but can his guys step up too? Was it 2 years ago when mid race Hendrick pulled off a pitcrew swap with the 24 team? Can't remember exactly but just thought wow, these guys pit him all year and they get benched mid race ouch.
 
During one of their pit stops much earlier in the race JJ had been on the radio telling Chad the car was real bad on just 2 tires.
They lost because of a slow stop and not likley because of taking 4.
Just my opinion.
 
I wasn't watching lap times but of the races I have this year and with the "green" tire compound they are pimping basically tires are worth a good chunk of faster time for a handful of laps. at a track like indy 4 maybe 5 laps then the times probably settle in with minimal drop off after that. I like taking possibly no tires or in most cases to get that can of fuel in the car you might as well throw 2 tires on it too. this of course is in the waning laps. all this is if it gets you in front of the leader. lets say its gets you in front of the leader by 4 seconds, if it takes the 4 tire guy 5 laps to get to the bumper the good is gone from his tires and likely he will not be fast enough to complete the pass all things being equal.
 
I watched timing and scoring the whole race. Newman was constantly faster than Johnson and constantly gaining on Johnson the whole race. Yet, pit strategy and pit stop delta put Johnson ahead of Newman for most of the race.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Gordo is one lucky sumbitch
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image.jpg

She's even attractive without the airbrushing
 
Newman had a great car, and drove it well. Johnson has a 12 sec pit stop instead of 18 then it close at the end. I think Newman wins.
Sometimes we look at things through "lowes colored glasses".
 
JJ needed at least a 12.9 stop and he would have won....Newman would just be an after thought
 
Garage Mahal was nice at Indy, I love Kobalt tools. Johnson and crew should sit out out by the pit wall in lawn chairs with umbrella drinks this week, and wave at the rest of them when they drive by. ..Let them catch up a little bit... 75 points ahead. They can blow plenty more pit stops, they won't though.
 
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