North Wilkesboro future...

buckaroo

buckaroo

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Here's what Bruton Smith said Tuesday during a "tireside chat" session.

"I don't see North Wilkesboro (Speedway) ever coming back to life. It's history. A storm tore it up. It's had water and sewer problems, and the track itself is worn out. I offered $4 million to (co-owner) Bob Bahre to buy it all, but he wouldn't take it. Right now, I only have half a vote in what goes on over there. If I had it all, things would be different. Fans don't understand how much you'd have to spend to get it back like it was. Let's just forget about North Wilkesboro. It's fast returning to the earth."

I guess that just about says it all. :(
 
Guys, I really hate to be the one to tell you this, but North Wilkesboro is not the first great race track to be lost to the sport.
There used to be a great track in Langhorne, Pa. that saw some of the best racing in all sorts of different classes of cars, old modified coupes, sprint cars, champ cars, stockcars, whatever. The place was fast as a dirt mile circle and faster still after it was paved. Fast and deadly enough that one spot was known as "Puke Hollow".
It's now a shopping mall.
There was a great track in Norwood, Mass. where some of the best modified drivers ever learned the trade. I think that's part of a used car lot now.
There was a wonderful highbanked track in Westboro, Mass. It too was lost to developers.
Ever hear of Catamont Stadium? They used to call it "The Martinsville of the Northeast". And yet another track lost to developers.
I mention these tracks only because they are the first ones which come to mind. There have been literally hundreds of tracks all over the country closed and plowed under.
Riverside Raceway in California; any of you remember that track?
Ontario Motor Speedway?
The point which I'm trying to make is that ever since we've had racing, we've had racetracks close for one reason or another.
I cannot understand why so many people have such a big problem understanding that racing, especially Winston Cup Racing, is not going to return to North Wilkesboro.
There were issues involved with, and conditions placed on, the sale of the shares of the track to the parties involved. The track and surrounding area simply do not have the needed infrastructure to support a Winston Cup event any longer.
And so many of you swear you hate flat tracks and yet you love Martinsville and North Wilkes. Oh well....
 
I think we've all seen some great tracks disappear but racing goes on. I remember the short track in Westboro on Route 9. Riverside in Agawam was taken to make more room for the amusement park. Another short track in Bristol, CT. Danbury Speedway in CT is another mall. Eastern States Exposition had a track. People want to see racing. If they live near your so called cookie cutter track that is where they will see their live event and so it goes.
 
boB, I used to hate N. Wilkesboro until I got season tickets for both races. I guess that can sure change your mind about it! :) What I hated to see about that was the it was a short track lost when there weren't many left. Years ago, there were plenty of short tracks, more than the superspeedways, but now, they are just about extinct. Also, it's a part of the history of the sport and soon, we'll lose another part, a date at Darlington. :(
 
I don't see darlington going away, more seats and lights will secure ther dates. Yeh Riverside was great wasn't it?! Saw my first paved race there when i was 5 back in 1966.
 
You can count on Darlington losing one of it's dates. It's almost written in stone now and the next one will be Rockingham. Too many factors besides not selling out will force this move. Even if they were to put in lights and get better facilities, they just can't sell out both races.
 
Originally posted by boB

There was a great track in Norwood, Mass. where some of the best modified drivers ever learned the trade.  I think that's part of a used car lot now.
There was a wonderful highbanked track in Westboro, Mass.  It too was lost to developers.
Click to expand...

boB, I cut my teeth while at Norwood, and Westboro. I also loved Seekonk in RI and Limerock, CT.

I will HATE to see Wilksboro plowed under.
 
Bruton Smith can make his comments all day but he is the one who blew it. Bob Bahre is willing to make concessions from all reports, but it is reported Bruton Smith has flatly stated he will not deal with Bahre under any circumstances, but in recent interviews he has tempered his remarks somewhat.

Several years ago, before the most recent rumors, there was talk of Junior Johnson purchasing the track. Reports are Bruton refused to sell if Bahre had any dealing whatsoever with the situation, and vice versa. As much as three or four years ago it was reported Dale Earnhardt and Richard Childress were interested as well. That deal too, fell by the wayside.

Yes, there are reports of problems with the sanitary system and water, however, with an infusion of cash from any side to reopen the speedway, no doubt Wilkes County would be interested in putting sewer and water to the facility in order to restore some of the income to Wilkes County previously generated by the races.

What is being dealt with here are two business men who are being stubborn through personal annimosities although one appears to be more guilty than the other.

Two or four million dollars to either of these people is an equivalent of one weeks pay to most of us so money is not the issue. Return on investment is one issue, personal pride is another. Everyone is quick to blame Bob Bahre for what took place during the split sale of the two Winston Cup dates. But many fail to realize, it was Enoch Staley, the other half of the partneship in the speedway, who did not want his shares sold to Smith. The next person in line to buy the second date was Bob Bahre.

Unfortunately, unless something changes, any deal is going to suffer the same fate as all others due to personal grudges. The only ones who will suffer are the nice folks who reside in Wilkes County and the fans who loved the races there. But the question still remains, for all the grumbling everyone does about North Wilkesboro, how many would actually return to see a lesser series?? Because like so many other things in life, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
Just a couple of thoughts for everyone this morning. Without wanting to start any arguements or offend anyone:
If you folks take a look at the history of NASCAR going back to its earliest days, you will find a whole bunch of racetracks which are now nearly forgotten memories.
Those tracks too, were very much a part of the growth and history of the series.
Those tracks also saw some great racing in their glory days.
BUT...
All the talk, moaning, mourning, crying, wailing and wringing of hands has not brought a single one of them back to life.
Can't we let North Wilkesboro rest in peace?
Be thankful that you were able to enjoy the shows which it gave you; never let those memories fade as they are what future generations will look to as history; but please accept the reality of the situation and let the old girl take her place in that history gracefully.

On another note:
I find it rather interesting that while in its earliest seasons, Grand National/Winston Cup grew into a true national series and then during the 1960's and on into the 70's withdrew into the southeastern region of the country and not until the mid 1990's was there much of an attempt to become a truly national series again.
The current schedule is nothing compared to what the early years saw. Over fifty races a year was common and the series ran 62 shows in 1964. As late as 1971 there were 48 events on the schedule.
Of course those early competitors usually had just one car which they brought to every track, they might have one or two crewmen who rode along in the cab of the ramptruck or pickup; no shiny half a million dollar haulers back then, no 50-100 mechanics, engineers, sponsors, wives, relatives, or girlfriends tagging along.
(Well, there may have been a girlfriend or two, but never at the same show as the wife.)
A really well financed team might have a van bodied truck to pull an open trailer with and even have two cars, one for superspeedways and one for all the others.
If you didn't make the show, you just might lose a few pounds between now and the next one.
Whatever money you had went into getting the car to that next track, whereever it was, and working like the devil to make that one so that you could hopefully afford a hot dog or two, maybe even a hamburger, fries, and a coke.
Hey, on a good week, you might even be able to spring for a six-pack of Rhiengold or Black Label and celebrate.
If you had a good season, there might even be a few dollars left over to freshen up the car so you could repeat the same foolishness all over again next year.
I can't speak for the fans, but for me racing was a lot more enjoyable then.
Maybe something has been lost along the way to all the fame, fortune and glory?
OR...
Perhaps we tend to overlook all the bad things and just remember the good stuff?
OR...
Maybe I'm just getting too doggone old and cantankerous or something like that?
 
boB, what's your point. It's Junior Johnson that is said to want to open the track back up, not any of us here. Hell, I couldn't even buy the hot dog stand let alone the rest of the facility. We all know that the old days used to be different. They raced on dirt as well. They used to wreck each other intentionally as well. They used to fight. They also had a choice of not going to a certain race and not have to worry about it. The title trophy meant more than the money. That's all history, but this thing with NW is news...today's news. We are just commenting on what is in the news. Junior's comments, Smith's comments and Bahre's non-comments. Now if someone would start to talk about any of those other old tracks, we'd probably make comments about them as well. So what's your point? You have an extra race up there in NH and I lost two race here in NC.
 
We have two races in one of the largest marketing areas in the country. Both sell out every year.
NHIS draws fans from around nine states, Ontario, Quebec, and the Canadian Maritime Provinces.

How many races are there within a very small marketing area in the southeast?
How large an area do they draw on for their fan base?
Do all of them sell out every race?
Check the dollar amounts paid at each race.
Who consistantly pays more money for less miles?

There have been rumors, rumors, and more rumors ever since a certain Mr. Smith tried to purchase the North Wilkesboro Speedway against the last wishes of its founder.
North Wilkes was dead, my friend. Smith wanted both of those races for TMS and tried his very best to land the whole works.
The family found out who was behind the company that wanted to buy their shares and refused to sell, instead they approached Bob Bahre and offerred him their half ownership.
(Despite Smith's claims of a promised race, it was common knowledge that NASCAR had never promised any dates to any track before it was built. They had always told the track owners to build it and prove themselves and their track and then they MIGHT be considered.)

At this point, I would doubt that NASCAR would consider much more than some sort of weekly shows at that track and it would almost certainly take more than weekly shows and track rental fees to repay the investment it would take to bring the track back into operation.

I would not be surprised to see NC lose a couple more races in the near future either. It all has something to do with marketing the sport.
What is there about the marketing of the sport that so many fans find so hard to understand?
NASCAR, especially Winston Cup and Busch have simply grown to the point that no single section of the country can support it. Sponsors and Television are demanding a much wider exposure than what the sport receives by limiting itself to one area or one group of fans.

It has been six years now since that last race at North Wilkesboro and we are still hearing about how NACAR should return to that great track. I don't believe you're gonna see it happen.

You mention Bahre's non-comments; at least Mr. Bahre is a gentleman and good to his word.
Maybe you should check out Mr. Smith's past record. You might find a few incidents of interest there.

Ya know, I have to wonder just how many of these fans who are constantly complaining about the lose of North Wilkes ever actually attended a race at that facility?

What's my point? Indeed, what is the point of all the constant rehash over a dead race track.
Those rumors about Jr buying the track were around a year ago, again six months ago, and now we're hearing them again. Too bad that it's not much more than wishful thinking at this time, isn't it?

It seems to me at this point that a lot of the southern fans simply are jealous that we have a great facility here which consistantly outdraws the so-called "home" of the sport.

But that is just my opinion.
 
boB, you're getting defensive now. First off, I never said anything about liking Smith or what he has done. In fact, I place 100% of the blame for the deterioration of the track at NW on him. Secondly, these rumors keep popping up because of Junior himself. It wasn't last year he began this or six months ago. Last month Junior and a bunch of his friends made some comments about trying to buy the track. That was last month my friend, not a year ago. Also, it was observed two weeks ago that someone was doing something at that track. What and by whom, I don't know. It was also said this past Tuesday by none other than Smitty himself that he isn't going to do a thing with the track and as long as he has 50% interest in it, it's dead. That was Tuesday of this past week. This is news and we are commenting on it. I don't believe for a second that if the track were made whole again, it would get a NASCAR date, not even a Busch one. The only possibility of getting a NASCAR date in my mind would be a truck date, but unless Smitty sells his interest, it won't go any further than talk from people. I know exactly why NASCAR is going where it's going and have been pounded on that from my friends who are on the inside. Market size, hotel accomodations, local entertainment etc. All of that matters to NASCAR because of the sponsors. North Carolina only has four races now per year and if the state would lose a couple of those races, it would either mean both races at Rockingham, or one of those and one at Charlotte. They will more than likely lose one date at Rockingham, but the dates at Charlotte will probably never be gone. That's the one place in the state that has the market share needed. You might possibly mean Darlington, which is in South Carolina and yes, it'll probably lose a date real soon. The other possibility you could be referring to is Martinsville, which is in Virginia. The problem with losing a date there would be losing one of the 6 races at a short track. While the market size of Martinsville is terrible, I do believe NASCAR will do all it can to prevent the lose of one of those dates. Now as far as jealousy goes, get real.
 
My friend, I am real, very real.
Within a few hours drive from the Charlotte area you have two points shows plus the Winston.
At Rockingham you have two more shows.
Just over the line in SC you have two more shows in Darlington.
On the other end of the state just over the state line in Tenn. there are two more shows at Bristol.
If you head north, again just a short ways there are two more shows at Martinsville.
If my math is correct, that appears to be something like 11 events within a relatively limited marketing area.
Then not that far away there are two more shows in Richmond and another two south of you in Atlanta.
Now were up to nearly one half of the schedule in that one section of the country.
Not to mention the two events in Daytona, one in Homestead, and two more over in Talledega.
Excuse me here, but doesn't NASCAR stand for National Association of StockCarAutomobileRacing?
And you were whining over the loss of two shows at a track which the series had simply outgrown.
If you take a few miinutes and check back, I do believe you'll find that the rumors about Jr made the rounds of the internet and all the racing papers just about a year ago.
Then there were more of the same rumors last summer.
And now we're hearing more of the same again.
Because someone had the grass cut or fixed a fence, now the track is going to reopen?
As far as Martinsville, I would say that any track located in that area might be in danger of losing a date.
If the growth continues as it has been, the only way to get the necessary exposure will be to expand into more and more new market areas.
That means single events at each track, or two leagues. It has to happen. I would also expect to see no new short tracks. They simply are too small to host Wintson Cup events.
Although no one wants to admit the fact; both Bristol and Martinville are more demolition derby than race; the cars are simply too fast for short tracks, drivers are unable to react fast enough to avoid the carnage. Maybe start about 24 cars instead of 43?
And I will stand by the remark about the jealous fans.
Just read some of the posts here and on some of the other message forums.
 
Buck, if I may be so bold.

You asked him 3 times in your last post, "What's your point, what's your point".

Then come back tell him he being defensive and to "get real". Well, I'd be a little defensive too.

Let's just try to be civil, and a little nicer to our newer friends mmkay?
 
Well i have to agree with bob on this one, the saturation of the market in the NC area is a well known fact. As for Smith the only thing he cares about is another date in Texas. He will go to no end to get that date and I firmly feel he will let NW overgrow with trees and weeds until you won't be able to tell there was a track there. Smith is the major reason why i will never attend a race at Texas. His greed and coniving ways give Nascar a bad name, time some one stood up to him and gave him some of his own medicine. As for the situation in NH, that is an entirely different can of worms. NHIS needs some major work, the design and radius of the corners is all wrong. I believe it was modeled after Stafford only on a bigger scale, which just doesn't work for the big old WC cars. It works fine for the Modifieds, but not Cup. If that track is not improved this year it needs a date taken away or maybe a season until Bahre gets the track right. That is not to take away from the fact that he has done a lot to try to fix the situation. I grew up not far from NHIS and would hate to see a date taken away, but facts are facts. Just as the fact is staring Nascar in the face about too many dates in the sothern part of the country.
 
MOpard9--said.
"Smith is the major reason why i will never attend a race at Texas. His greed and coniving ways give Nascar a bad name, time some one stood up to him and gave him some of his own medicine."
..........................................................................................
MO---you need to wake up and smell the Coffee,,, Bruton Smith is the ONLY reason you get races as far way from NC/SC area as you do.. If "Wild Bill France-Monopoly Company"--a.k.a. (Nascar). had their way they would stay--in the S.E. ..... I'm "GLAD" he Bucks France..!! I wish "MORE" Track Owners would do the same--and leave it to the Promoters to Get the "BUCKS" to Hold a Race.... One --two or Three a year at the same Track---makes no difference to me... Sell--160,000 Tickets---pay a Great Purse--and Run What you Brung.. ((I'd go every Sunday..)) !!
 
I totally disagree with you about Smith, how do you figure he is the only reason you get dates away from the south? What do you base this on?
 
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