Okay, pack racing fans time to speak up

Jeffrey00

Jeffrey00

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What was so great about the racing last night? Also for those who think the tandem racing is worse how do you explain this?

In Daytona history:
Most Lead Changes: 74 - 2/20/2011
Most Leaders: 25 - 7/2/2011

In Talladega History:
Most Lead Changes: 88 - 4/25/2010 & 4/27/2011
Most Leaders: 29 - 4/25/2010
 
As a Nascar fan, I enjoy them all.The road courses , cookie cutters, short tracks , speedways with or without tandems .If they want to add a hill climb or a dirt race , I am okay with it .Unfortunately we are going to have to go through this discussion with the folks who don't like road courses , and those who don't like cookie cutters,and those who don't like short tracks...all year long.
 
I will agree though that I think that the race last night was rather boring by comparison. I do like the passing, however it's defined. I like watching teams be able to race their way to the front. Last night I saw very little of it from my living-room. Had I been there I may have had a different view. Either line was able to do very little even to the end. In years gone by it was fun to watch a team battle it's way to the front. I didn't see that. I had expected there to be the best of both worlds during last night event and was surprised when it was basically a pack to the end.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
What was so great about the racing last night? Also for those who think the tandem racing is worse how do you explain this?

In Daytona history:
Most Lead Changes: 74 - 2/20/2011
Most Leaders: 25 - 7/2/2011

In Talladega History:
Most Lead Changes: 88 - 4/25/2010 & 4/27/2011
Most Leaders: 29 - 4/25/2010
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Last night's race sucked, but pre-orchestrated lead changes are just as meaningless as the 30 lead changes that take place at California during green flag pit stops.
 
ted@economy said:
As a Nascar fan, I enjoy them all.The road courses , cookie cutters, short tracks , speedways with or without tandems .If they want to add a hill climb or a dirt race , I am okay with it .Unfortunately we are going to have to go through this discussion with the folks who don't like road courses , and those who don't like cookie cutters,and those who don't like short tracks...all year long.
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I can understand someone disliking a certain track configuration, because that just isn't their cup of tea. However I can't understand how someone can say that tandem racing is boring or isn't good. We all complain for passing and more action on the track. We had that with Tandem racing and there is actual proof as track records were broken.
 
The tandem racing was pre-orchestrated nonsense. But, last night was also orchestrated. I would've rather seen the tandems than see a result like last night. Kenseth winning the 500 was also pre-orchestrated nonsense among the Ford camp.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Last night's race sucked, but pre-orchestrated lead changes are just as meaningless as the 30 lead changes that take place at California during green flag pit stops.
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Why would you call it pre-orchestrated? It wasn't like drivers were moving out of the way to let someone else lead.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
I wonder how much of the fan counsel are part of the Jr Nation.
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Not THIS member!!

ted@economy said:
As a Nascar fan, I enjoy them all.The road courses , cookie cutters, short tracks , speedways with or without tandems .If they want to add a hill climb or a dirt race , I am okay with it .Unfortunately we are going to have to go through this discussion with the folks who don't like road courses , and those who don't like cookie cutters,and those who don't like short tracks...all year long.
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This is true, Teddy! Seems that most fans who like Road Course Races (ME!) hate Destructor Plate Races (ME Again!) I'm OK with the 1.5 milers, even though there are too many on the schedule, IMO. I do like Texas Motor Speedway and Vegas is really good since the progressive banking was added (Homestead too, for that matter).
 
That wasn't racing for most of the night. The so called pack wasn't even a pack. It was a parade on the low line decorated with a slower parade on the high line. If it wasn't for Montoya and the Ganassie mystery part, not many people would be talking about this one.
 
FenderBumper said:
That wasn't racing for most of the night. The so called pack wasn't even a pack. It was a parade on the low line decorated with a slower parade on the high line. If it wasn't for Montoya and the Ganassie mystery part, not many people would be talking about this one.
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x2, you left out Brad playing Angry Birds
 
The bad thing about 2x2 racing is you have to have a partner to go anywhere. I know you need that for pack racing too, but a driver can always get in another line if hung out to dry. There was some passing in the Shootout and the first Duel race. There wasn't much last night. I'm not sure what happened.
 
MRM said:
The bad thing about 2x2 racing is you have to have a partner to go anywhere. I know you need that for pack racing too, but a driver can always get in another line if hung out to dry. There was some passing in the Shootout and the first Duel race. There wasn't much last night. I'm not sure what happened.
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If last night's race, or even just the last 40 laps, was like the shoot out I wouldn't be complaining one bit.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
What was so great about the racing last night? Also for those who think the tandem racing is worse how do you explain this?

In Daytona history:
Most Lead Changes: 74 - 2/20/2011
Most Leaders: 25 - 7/2/2011

In Talladega History:
Most Lead Changes: 88 - 4/25/2010 & 4/27/2011
Most Leaders: 29 - 4/25/2010
Click to expand...
Lead changes do not always equate to real good racing when you need tandems to do it. I'd love to see that many lead changes with cars being able to sling shot past other cars on their own, without having another car glued to their bumper for two laps!
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I will agree though that I think that the race last night was rather boring by comparison. I do like the passing, however it's defined. I like watching teams be able to race their way to the front. Last night I saw very little of it from my living-room. Had I been there I may have had a different view. Either line was able to do very little even to the end. In years gone by it was fun to watch a team battle it's way to the front. I didn't see that. I had expected there to be the best of both worlds during last night event and was surprised when it was basically a pack to the end.
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I will agree with most of that and will add this for what it is worth. When I think of racing in general, I see the fastest cars up front being able to pass each other for the lead. I know there are so many variables to consider in this modern era of plate racing, but I want to see racing on those types of tracks where the cars can actually pull out and pass each other, without always having to depend on some one else to do it. I think probably that is a lot of wishfull thinking on my part, but with all the technology available now, it seems like it should be possible.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I will agree with most of that and will add this for what it is worth. When I think of racing in general, I see the fastest cars up front being able to pass each other for the lead. I know there are so many variables to consider in this modern era of plate racing, but I want to see racing on those types of tracks where the cars can actually pull out and pass each other, without always having to depend on some one else to do it. I think probably that is a lot of wishfull thinking on my part, but with all the technology available now, it seems like it should be possible.
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Would you agree that in order to have cars passing each other at will, you would need to have a difference in horsepower between the cars ? Which cars would have more horsepower and which ones would have less? And who would decide on who gets what horsepower?
 
ted@economy said:
Would you agree that in order to have cars passing each other at will, you would need to have a difference in horsepower between the cars ? Which cars would have more horsepower and which ones would have less? And who would decide on who gets what horsepower?
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I think it could also be achieved with the right aero package, we've seen it done in the not too distant past. I've always been an advocate of a smaller engine package for Daytona and Dega, with no plate. That smaller engine/hp combined with the right aero package IMO, would produce great racing. I also think that Nascar has never tried it because it would be probably expensive. This of course is just speculation and opinion based on my part, I'd love to see something like that tried though.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I think it could also be achieved with the right aero package, we've seen it done in the not too distant past. I've always been an advocate of a smaller engine package for Daytona and Dega, with no plate. That smaller engine/hp combined with the right aero package IMO, would produce great racing. I also think that Nascar has never tried it because it would be probably expensive. This of course is just speculation and opinion based on my part, I'd love to see something like that tried though.
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I don't understand what you are saying.Which cars are going to race with different aero packages and which cars are going to race with the present package? They can't all race with the same package or you won't be able to get any seperation.Or , are you advocating a smaller engine for some cars and not others? If so , which ones ?
 
ted@economy said:
I don't understand what you are saying.Which cars are going to race with different aero packages and which cars are going to race with the present package? They can't all race with the same package or you won't be able to get any seperation.Or , are you advocating a smaller engine for some cars and not others? If so , which ones ?
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Cup cars. Seperation was achieved in the past, it should be able to be achieved now.
 
If we can get back to the days where one driver can actually make a run to the front without help from someone pushing him I'll be happy with pack racing again. I saw a little of that this weekend and a lot of riding around. I'm hopeful given more chances NASCAR and the drivers might get it right before the end of the year.

I'm not saying "riding around" is a bad thing, I expect it in a 400-600 mile race as you have to save something for the end. But when it comes time to show what you got you shouldn't be stuck begging someone to push you to the front no matter how good your own car is.
 
NC HillBilly said:
But when it comes time to show what you got you shouldn't be stuck begging someone to push you to the front no matter how good your own car is.
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The problem is ,NC ,that no matter how good your car is ..you aren't going to catch and pass someone else who is in a two car tandem.
 
ted@economy said:
Would you agree that in order to have cars passing each other at will, you would need to have a difference in horsepower between the cars ? Which cars would have more horsepower and which ones would have less? And who would decide on who gets what horsepower?
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I would be in charge of that. My drivers' cars would have more horsepower, everyone else's cars would have less :D
 
Pack racing. I like it better than the dance partner crap. Yes, this weekend wasn't the best, but they all can't be the best, and even in the best racing, there are going to be races that just aren't that good.

And as far as saying tandem racing produced the most lead changes? Wrong. Sure, there were different cars leading the race, but the percentage of actual, competitive lead changes was very, very low. Most of them were just precoordinated, orchestrated swaps to allow the pusher to cool down.

I thought the mixture this weekend was interesting at times when a guy running by himself would be able to hook on two guys running in a pair.

Liking pack racing does not equate to liking wreck. But the thing about pack racing is that the very real possibility of the big one keeps the suspense level up, and keeps me on the edge of my seat, knowing that. Doesn't mean I want to see the wreck.

Jeffrey00 said:
Why would you call it pre-orchestrated? It wasn't like drivers were moving out of the way to let someone else lead.
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But that's exactly what is going on. It may not be just to let the other guy lead, but it damn sure is moving out of the way so the other guy can be in front and get some air flow.
 
I remember when guys used to pull out of line and make a run with other guys pulling out of line. I didn't see much of that Monday.
 
MOEJOE said:
I remember when guys used to pull out of line and make a run with other guys pulling out of line. I didn't see much of that Monday.
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It wasn't pack racing and it wasn't tandem racing. It was a Talladega parade.
 
So did the TV coverage just show the first few lead cars all night? because there was alot of passing going on just not the leaders. My opinion is Kenseth and Biffle had the two best/fastest cars and worked well together all night.....honestly I'm surprised they passed tech.......ooops there I said it ;)
 
FlFlash said:
So did the TV coverage just show the first few lead cars all night? because there was alot of passing going on just not the leaders. My opinion is Kenseth and Biffle had the two best/fastest cars and worked well together all night.....honestly I'm surprised they passed tech.......ooops there I said it ;)
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As some said it wasn't a pack because the first 6 cars were inline and then the second line started with the 7th or 8th car back. Problem was that second line couldn't get going. For whatever reason they couldn't get past the 6th car inline. That was the problem.
 
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