Op-Ed: NASCAR races should never finish under caution

I'm glad you get to write the column and all but really, “guarantee”? Andy there is no such thing as a guarantee. NASCAR has never said that. You mentioned that night @ Gateway. That alone should be enough to tell you why the limited number is in place. Comparison to a football game ending in a tie? NASCAR races don't end in ties either. Maybe you should be comparing the caution ending race to a quarterback kneeing the ball to end the game. Only, in football, we see that a few times a weekend. In NASCAR cautions ending the race have become more of a rarity. I disagree with the idea behind the thread. I think they already make a valid attempt now to give the fans a finish we'd all like to see.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
http://popularspeed.com/nascar-caution-rule-talladega-under-yellow/
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Finishing position should be determined by where cars are at a certain point - that point should be the finish line and not the time the caution comes out.

NASCAR usually does and did in this case allow them to attempt to race back but obvious debris disallowed that. I dislike the gray area associated with this which is whether NASCAR does or doesn't throw a caution - but I do know if they implemented a rule that GWC can be a result of a caution on the final lap.... then NASCAR will take advantage of it like they already do with GWC in general.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm glad you get to write the column and all but really, “guarantee”? Andy there is no such thing as a guarantee. NASCAR has never said that. You mentioned that night @ Gateway. That alone should be enough to tell you why the limited number is in place. Comparison to a football game ending in a tie? NASCAR races don't end in ties either. Maybe you should be comparing the caution ending race to a quarterback kneeing the ball to end the game. Only, in football, we see that a few times a weekend. In NASCAR cautions ending the race have become more of a rarity. I disagree with the idea behind the thread. I think they already make a valid attempt now to give the fans a finish we'd all like to see.
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The idea that the championship could be decided by a caution flag, not a race back to the line, drives me insane.
 
Also, the article says they "guarantee" an attempt at a green flag finish and went on to say it's not good enough.

If GWC is NASCAR's version of overtime, then the race finishing under a caution is NASCAR's version of the World Series finishing in a tie. But that would never happen because the World Series would burn through 27 innings if they had to not that it's ever been done.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The idea that the championship could be decided by a caution flag, not a race back to the line, drives me insane.
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Great point. They could never totally eliminate the possibility of ending under caution entirely because they still have to keep a max number of GWC attempts. But Homestead can't end the way Talladega did - not with the one race format they have in place.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Maybe you should be comparing the caution ending race to a quarterback kneeing the ball to end the game.
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It's difficult to compare racing to stick-and-ball sports but I think this is a more apt comparison. NASCAR already does enough (too much, IMO, but that's another discussion entirely) to attempt to finish under green. I don't think we need to absolutely guarantee every finish comes down to the final possession or 18th hole, so to speak.
 
Yeah I think the racing is actually ruined by the GWC. We have 400-500 mile races every week and it always comes down to the last two miles? Why watch the other 498?

Of course, I still do. But why would my girlfriend or roommates? Or anyone who isn't really a racing fan? I think IndyCar has it right.
 
I wasn't crazy about the way Sunday's race ended either, but it was just one of those special cases. With the white flag and the wreck happening simultaneously (although both before the start-finish line), it first appeared as though NASCAR was gonna let 'em race, but thought better of it when they saw how much actual debris was laying on the track.

I wasn't crazy about it when I went to Bristol this year either and waited all day in the cold and the rain only to have the race end by some dude leaning on the caution button. But, it is what it is. Sometimes you have to settle for the occasional "W-Y-C" finish.
 
I don't like seeing races end under yellow & the only thing that I dislike is the "caution on the white flag ends the race". Why? Why not have a GWC? And make the GWC 5 laps instead of just 2. A 2 lap shoutout at a plate race or a road course is meh.

If their gonna do a GWC (the reason it was developed was to halt yellow/checkard finishes) they better make sure the races ends with a green flag, a white flag, and then a checkard flag. Not a green flag, a white flag and then a yellow flag.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Also, the article says they "guarantee" an attempt at a green flag finish and went on to say it's not good enough.

If GWC is NASCAR's version of overtime, then the race finishing under a caution is NASCAR's version of the World Series finishing in a tie. But that would never happen because the World Series would burn through 27 innings if they had to not that it's ever been done.
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Who did Denny tie with on Sunday? Just curious. The analogy is flawed.
 
Why not shorten the races and and not count caution laps? Maybe by as much as half. If a caution comes out on the last lap, reset the number of laps for the finish according to the size of the track. Something like 10 laps for a place like Bristol and Martinsville, and 5 for the bigger tracks like Pocono. And while we're talking about cautions - how about doing something about the full course cautions at some of the road courses that take a ridicules amount of time? Or am I just freaking bonkers?
 
Or do how soccer does. Count the # of caution laps & then add them to the scheduled amount of laps for a GWC
 
CaptainHiTop said:
And while we're talking about cautions - how about doing something about the full course cautions at some of the road courses that take a ridicules amount of time? Or am I just freaking bonkers?
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Good point. This is about the only gripe I have with places like Road America, but fortunately RA is paving over their run-off areas now. They did it recently with Watkins Glen too.

Other than that, they need to figure out what a local yellow is and use it unless a car absolutely has to moved by a safety crew close to or on the track.
 
Caution laps for the last 10% of the race distance don't count. Depending on track length a varying number of laps under green before the white is flown.
This idea is so crazy the brain is bound to endorse it!!:bounce:
 
I only wish caution laps didn't count or at least some of them. There's nothing more frustrating than them running 10 laps under caution in the closing laps of the race. Just red flag em or don't count em. I think cautions are part of racing but when they do SO many at the end of a race, it drives me crazy.
 
Bobw said:
Caution laps for the last 10% of the race distance don't count. Depending on track length a varying number of laps under green before the white is flown.
This idea is so crazy the brain is bound to endorse it!!:bounce:
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Oh, he's probably already set up an exploratory committee to brainstorm changes to the current rules. He's gotta make his mark on things, you know.

Let's not help him out, guys. Please. LOL.
 
I think the GWC is a good compromise; it is better than running the last laps under caution and it is safer than racing back to the line (as we saw last weekend). With the emphasis on winning drivers will take more chances at the end of the race and we will see more cautions. How many times can you restart the race to get a green flag finish? I have noticed that NASCAR has let them run back to the line after a last lap wreck on occasion but it is a judgement call, I'm comfortable with freezing the field when it isn't safe to the finish race at speed.
 
Much ado about nothing. It ended under caution. We used to see caution endings quite often, and NASCAR, in my opinion, has a pretty good rule with what they have in place now. This article is just another example of Andy being Andy. One out of the ordinary freak finish (the had no choice but to throw the yellow), and Andy wants to change the world.
 
I watch a race to see what is going to happen . The chances are that it might be a photo finish , or maybe some car will finish three laps ahead of the rest , or there will be a big accident and a lot of cars won't finish , or it will get rained out , or it will turn into a fuel mileage race . My point is , I don't want somebody who doesn't agree with races finishing under caution , dictating the way that the race will finish . Let the damn race play out as it will . Not everyone has to like the finish .
 
I would be happy if the just stopped the freaking phantom cautions, including competition cautions. And Nascar needs to learn how keep a green out when a car has spun completely off the apron. Any excuse works for the yellow fevered crowd, and it often self perpetuates into more cautions. I would rather see somebody lap the field then using superficial means to tighten up the feild.

And I wish those who do not appreciate a real race would find a new hobby. Seriously.

That being said I still despise the GWC'ers for reasons that have already been stated by others. If you are worried about one you should just be sure to get up front and stay there prior, no one else knows when a caution can happen, and part of the war is being prepared at all times.

And BTW they got it right (the last yellow and finish) at Talladega.
 
CaptainHiTop said:
Why not shorten the races and and not count caution laps? Maybe by as much as half. If a caution comes out on the last lap, reset the number of laps for the finish according to the size of the track. Something like 10 laps for a place like Bristol and Martinsville, and 5 for the bigger tracks like Pocono. And while we're talking about cautions - how about doing something about the full course cautions at some of the road courses that take a ridicules amount of time? Or am I just freaking bonkers?
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If you want to shorten races, yes you are IMO
 
Kyle18fan said:
If you want to shorten races, yes you are IMO
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I agree . It's kinda like marathon running . They have quarter marathons , half marathons , etc ., but when you get to the top level , you compete against the best in the full marathon . Shortening a full marathon , for any reason is just silly .
 
If a Sunday afternoon caution period is causing anyone that much stress and left feeling understimulated, I suggest some romantic entanglments instead. In other words, go get some.
 
I still miss racing back to flag--but I know why they do not do it..sigh..
 
jdbrew said:
Yeah I think the racing is actually ruined by the GWC. We have 400-500 mile races every week and it always comes down to the last two miles? Why watch the other 498?

Of course, I still do. But why would my girlfriend or roommates? Or anyone who isn't really a racing fan? I think IndyCar has it right.
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What does IndyCar do that NASCAR doesn't?
 
This past weekend was the first time I've seen a race end under caution in a looooong time. I think the implementation of the GWC rule has been good overall, although it is unfortunate that so many races "appear" to be manipulated so that they will end in a GWC.
 
I hate cautions at any time but they are necessary. They could easily just not count them with 10 laps to go, fans want to see the finish under green and who can blame them, besides that's why they paid to get in for to see a race.
 
#17D500winner said:
If a Sunday afternoon caution period is causing anyone that much stress and left feeling understimulated, I suggest some romantic entanglments instead. In other words, go get some.
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Agreed!

And more to the point, if Sundays race is causing someone that much stress, go get some with yourself. ;)
 
ted@economy said:
I agree . It's kinda like marathon running . They have quarter marathons , half marathons , etc ., but when you get to the top level , you compete against the best in the full marathon . Shortening a full marathon , for any reason is just silly .
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I see where you're coming from, but that's not how running works :p Runners select their own events to compete in. The length of the run doesn't determine their level of skill
 
Kyle18fan said:
If you want to shorten races, yes you are IMO
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Don't get me wrong, I love it when a race takes the whole day. But there are some tracks where there's a lot of follow the leader until a certain point in the race, so why not cut to the chase (the metaphorical, not the actual). Really my thinking was that shortening the races would compensate for not counting laps run under the yellow.

As far as I'm concerned it's good the way it is, but if I could make a tweak, it would be to not count caution laps.
 
CaptainHiTop said:
Don't get me wrong, I love it when a race takes the whole day. But there are some tracks where there's a lot of follow the leader until a certain point in the race, so why not cut to the chase (the metaphorical, not the actual). Really my thinking was that shortening the races would compensate for not counting laps run under the yellow.

As far as I'm concerned it's good the way it is, but if I could make a tweak, it would be to not count caution laps.
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Counting caution laps irritates me, I do wish they would freeze the lap count under caution. There has been lots of talk of shortening races and once they start doing that we will end up with 50 lap races
 
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