Penalty for Bump-drafting?

BobbyFord

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What'll they come up with next??


Bump Drafting Issue Resurfaces UPDATE NASCAR draws line on bump-drafting: Even though he finished a respectable third in the 72-lap exhibition sprint, defending Nextel Cup champion #20-Tony Stewart was livid afterward. Stewart had just finished a race that saw he and the 20 other contestants narrowly dodge, only by good fortune and luck, major accidents at the sprawling 2½-mile track. The reason for Stewart's ire was the bump drafting, which entails intentionally slamming into the car in front of you. The purpose is actually to push the next car along – and some drivers assert it's a necessary move – but do it at the wrong time or at the wrong angle, and wrecks easily can ensue. And wrecks at restrictor plate tracks have the potential to be especially brutal. Really, bump drafting isn't drafting at all. It's legalized road rage – legal, at least, in NASCAR terms. There are laws prohibiting this obviously unsafe maneuver on highways, so why aren't existing rules in NASCAR's books against unsafe or overaggressive driving being enforced when it comes to bump drafting? NASCAR vice president of communications Jim Hunter said after Sunday's race that the sanctioning body has tried to come up with different ways to, at the very least, control bump drafting. But, Hunter noted, sanctioning body officials have to be cautious to make major changes in one area, lest they unwittingly compromise safety in yet another area. Hunter says NASCAR has explored "softening up" front bumpers on cars so that there will be less resulting impact and damage – and thus less chance for a car being knocked out of control – when bump drafting occurs. Again, laudable, but not entirely realistic. Hunter also said NASCAR is reluctant to simply penalize every driver that bump drafts, as some of the allegedly guilty might actually be victims of circumstance, such as being unable to avoid impact when a car in front suddenly checks up.(Yahoo Sports)(2-13-2006)
UPDATE NASCAR draws line on bump-drafting: NASCAR will post additional officials in the turns at Daytona International Speedway to monitor the act of bump-drafting between cars on the track, according to Robin Pemberton, vice president of competition for the sanctioning body. And left up to make the call, he said Tuesday, officials could penalize drivers for such contact. Pemberton said the officials would begin monitoring the situation beginning with Thursday's Gatorade Duals, twin 150-mile qualifying races that will set the remainder of the field for the Feb. 19 Daytona 500. "I think what we are going to do over the week as the races unfold," Pemberton said, "we may have some zones that we post added officials in where me might be forced to make a call of a bump draft that is unnecessary. The straightaways, obviously, don't appear to be a problem. But we're working on it. We've talked to the competitors about the problem and we may be put in the position that we have to make some calls that we really don't want to make."
The act of bump-drafting occurs when a driver makes contact with his and another vehicle in front of him on the race track with the front bumper of his car. The "hit" is normally used to push the car in front past a car beside it. The practice has become fairly common at Daytona and Talladega, however, following Sunday's Budweiser Shootout, defending series champion Tony Stewart said the act of bump drafting could lead to another death at the 2.5-mile track. As far as penalties are concerned, Pemberton said it could be "a pass through as far as coming down pit road. It could be anything. ... This is a serious matter. "Everybody has to remember, we don't drive these things. The drivers are in control, they have the pedals they can push and the steering wheel they can turn. To leave it in our hands when we're not out there ... they may get a call that they didn't bargain for."(NASCAR Scene)(2-14-2006)
 
I agree with the idea of doing something with the problem, but this just seems too subjective with using a spotter in assigning a penality. Is there any way of using telemetry to determine how hard of a hit occurs?
 
the problem isnt bump drafting....its those damn plates.

Nascar does not need to make another judgement rules, thats what this is going to come down to.

They already have too many rules that can go either way in a race...aka Carl Edwards getting screwed in the bud shootout...they need to steer clear of these judgement rules.

you've got the money to spend on these cars....so find a way to take the plates off of them...find a way to seperate the field....Tony Stewart was right about one thing...we are going to see another driver killed if we keep up with what we are doing now.
 
I agree that we don't need another "Referee Rule". That just opens up the flood gates of protests and bad blood.

I also understand that "rubbin is racin" but it has gotten to the point where guys are hitting each other more than a demo derby.

What needs to be done is a mandated structural change to the cars front and rear to make bumping just as damaging to the bump-er as the bump-ee.

If you will damage the front aero package on your car by bump drafting, you are less likely to bump just for the sake of bumping.
 
i know they said a V6 was once proposed, but teams didnt have enough money for the development (which i can see, being the small teams couldnt afford 2 engine programs)

maybe put some stroke in the engines and/or put a 7000 chip in the msd box and use that and the gear rule together to decrease speeds without hurting the motor?

Put it this way: NHRA knocked about 10 MPH off the top fuel dragsters but making a custom rev limiter that takes away spark timing after X seconds in the run or Y mph. Works well and aint hurting the motor much (it takes spark out at 50 degrees per second starting 3 seconds into a run or about 250 MPH)
 
I don't know how many times we have talked about getting rid of the plates on this forum, probably too many. The simple fact remains....Nascar won't get rid of the plates because it sells too many tickets, that is the bottom line. People want to see the pack racing and that "big one" happen. The drivers don't , the seasoned veteran fan doesn't, but to the casual fan that Nascar is trying to reel in, plate racing is exciting.
 
Maybe so but they should be warned that a real good lawyer armed with the knowledge of what "other" things could be done to accomplish lowering the speed on the plate tracks will OWN NASCAR if and when another death occurs caused by the plates themselves.
I really liked the ARCA answer to plates.
Betsy
 
yea, i know arca runs plates still, but dont they hand out the ignitios straight from mallory with 78 chips in them (or is it 87?)?
 
Mopardh9 said:
I don't know how many times we have talked about getting rid of the plates on this forum, probably too many. The simple fact remains....Nascar won't get rid of the plates because it sells too many tickets, that is the bottom line. People want to see the pack racing and that "big one" happen. The drivers don't , the seasoned veteran fan doesn't, but to the casual fan that Nascar is trying to reel in, plate racing is exciting.
I have to agree with you on most of that, but I wonder how long you have to be a fan to be seasoned? I always felt that I was a seasoned fan as long as I've been a fan of this sport, but I find the races at both Daytona and Taladega most exciting. Yeah, I know how dangerous it is. Yeah I've seen drivers die (I was at Daytona in 2001) and yeah, this will go on forever, but I still enjoy watching these guys going around that track as fast as they do, as close as they are.

For those of you who just absolutely hate plate racing, just wait another week and they will be over for a while.

Betsy, if what you say is true, then Teresa Earnhardt should own NASCAR. Remember, no one is forced to drive these cars anywhere. They choose to do it. Tony, Jeff, Jr or any of them can step down and sit in the crowd at any time.
 
If plates caused accidents, all but two tracks would be accident free, right?
 
Patrick9999 said:
If plates caused accidents, all but two tracks would be accident free, right?


Thats not what we aresaying...name another race track besides dega and daytona that have cars run as fast as they do as close as they do...and when they wreck which track takes out the most cars?
 
Betsy said:
Maybe so but they should be warned that a real good lawyer armed with the knowledge of what "other" things could be done to accomplish lowering the speed on the plate tracks will OWN NASCAR if and when another death occurs caused by the plates themselves.
I really liked the ARCA answer to plates.
Betsy

That's one of the most rediculous things I've ever read.
Two words Betsy, "waiver sheet".
Drivers aren't supposed to go on the track without signing it.
 
Steve
If they cannot participate without signing the "waiver sheet" Everyone will sign it just to get on the track.. That good lawyer mentioned above will have the jury disregard it entirely.
About like the "waiver sheet" you have to agree with every time you load a new program on your computer..
NOBODY can sign away their life. It is assumed by the teams that NASCAR has done EVERYTHING possible to ensure safety.
Betsy
 
I'm not so sure the unseasoned fans are really the ones keeping the plates...

I'm not a veteran fan by a long shot (5 yrs now) and I've never really liked the plate races, simply b/c the cars ARE so close. I get a headache watching drivers go from 2nd to 15th and back again in 2 laps...

Somehow we need to let the cars separate themselves on the track so the fastest cars can be seen as such.
 
Plate racing makes for dangerous racing. So does bump drafting. I think that NASCAR needs to review their plate policy which could also eliminate the possibility of bump drafting. That would make for more exciting racing and less chance of the "Big One".
 
The team limit 'rule' thing suddenly died---for all practical purposes.

Makes me wonder if there was a concentrated effort on the parts of owners/sponsors to convince France his idea was not a good one.

Now, I know NASCAR is the ballgame---you don't like the rules, pack up and go home----but it seems to me if most of the teams/sponsors got together and made an ultimatim---fix the plate fiasco or we don't show up-----and give them a year----betcha a dollar the plates would disappear. :beerbang:

It is just too dangerous----and costly, to keep wrecking fifteen or more cars every race---and I, for one, am NOT watching to see the Big One!!!! Matter of fact, I often turn off the race after the Big One-----seems most of my favorites have been in them. :(
 
This Buds For Me said:
Thats not what we aresaying...name another race track besides dega and daytona that have cars run as fast as they do as close as they do...and when they wreck which track takes out the most cars?

I understand what you're saying but the wrecks are still going to happen and if they take out this many cars at 200mph, what will hapen at 220...230 or beyond? I realize that the cars wont be in such large packs but they'll run into a lot more traffic.

If fans are attending races to see spectacular crashes, take the plates of 'em and see what a crash looks like.

As for Tony Stewart's comments about the #3, that crash wasn't a result of plates or bump drafting and anyone who watched that race knows exactly what happened.

I guess my frustration is not with plates but with drivers who simply refuse to take responsilbilty for what they cause.
 
Handymac said:
The team limit 'rule' thing suddenly died---for all practical purposes.
:(
Not the way I understood Brian France on Trackside the other night. He stated that it was still going forward.
 
I think i favor the side that likes the bumper fix as the solution. Something does need to be done as I agree with tony, it is simply too dangerous now.
 
Betsy said:
Steve
If they cannot participate without signing the "waiver sheet" Everyone will sign it just to get on the track.. That good lawyer mentioned above will have the jury disregard it entirely.
About like the "waiver sheet" you have to agree with every time you load a new program on your computer..
NOBODY can sign away their life. It is assumed by the teams that NASCAR has done EVERYTHING possible to ensure safety.
Betsy


You mean KNOWING it's dangerous they want to participate so much they'll sign a "waiver sheet"?

Isn't that the purpose of a "waiver sheet", competitors ackowledging the dangers facing them if "they" choose to participate?

You really think a lawyer can get a jury to ignore the fact EVERYONE that follows this sport, much less participates in it knows and that it is very dangerous and one could be seriously hurt or killed if "THEY" choose to participate?

You really must lay off those mind altering drugs.
 
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