poll

What should the punishment be if the No. 99 car had a competitive advantage?

  • Total voters
    22
  • Poll closed .
tkj24

tkj24

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This poll from SI. Just wanted to see what everyone thought. I voted for 25-point deduction.
 
majestyx said:
Fine and points deduction as in previous incidences. JMHO
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Of course a fine will go with the point deductions. I say if he gets 25 points it will be 25,000 and if it is 100 the fine will be 100,000.
 
I voted 25 points and think they also should get a $25000 fine in this instance.
 
I think i counted 5 posts where you say that you voted for the 25 point fine yet the poll only shows 4 votes.......who forgot to vote. :)
 
Hey, I like this new poll in that I can see how everyone voted. Hmmmm, this sounds like a union vote. Where's the secret ballot? Anyway, I didn't vote and it isn't because I didn't want anyone to see how I voted. I didn't vote because I didn't see what I would like to see happen. And what is that you may ask? NOTHING! I'm getting sick and tired of these petty little eighth inch here, quarter inch there and who's getting rich with all this? NASCAR and of course, all those who are involved. If Carl's car had an advantage, then why not penalize his teammate Biffle. Afterall, it was clear to everyone there and anyone who was watching that the Biff was faster than Carl, but because he started so far back, he just didn't have enough laps left to catch him. But faster he was and by quite a bit. Also included in that bunch is another teammate, Matt Kenseth. Afterall, those two battled back and forth for the lead almost all day long. Clearly, Matt had the same settup as Carl but he lost his engine and that cost him the win. Whose next? Mark Martin, a former teammate who now drives one of them Chebies. He also clearly was better than Carl, but also had to make up too much distance to overtake the back flipper and as such, used up his tires, but that doesn't mean that his team wasn't cheating too. And then there's Marky's new homey teammate, Dale Jr. Where'd he finish? Ah, right up there in the top five. Need I say more?

If they are going to penalize team Edwards, and that they will, they should then fine the whole field because they were doing everything they could up to the letter and probably a bit more, just to not only place as high as they could, but just to make the race.

Oh, and let's not forget about the little fracas with the beloved Kyle and the youngster Hamlin. Did the little Denny really think that he could take the son of the King? I mean really!
 
buckaroo said:
Hey, I like this new poll in that I can see how everyone voted. Hmmmm, this sounds like a union vote. Where's the secret ballot? Anyway, I didn't vote and it isn't because I didn't want anyone to see how I voted. I didn't vote because I didn't see what I would like to see happen. And what is that you may ask? NOTHING! I'm getting sick and tired of these petty little eighth inch here, quarter inch there and who's getting rich with all this? NASCAR and of course, all those who are involved. If Carl's car had an advantage, then why not penalize his teammate Biffle. Afterall, it was clear to everyone there and anyone who was watching that the Biff was faster than Carl, but because he started so far back, he just didn't have enough laps left to catch him. But faster he was and by quite a bit. Also included in that bunch is another teammate, Matt Kenseth. Afterall, those two battled back and forth for the lead almost all day long. Clearly, Matt had the same settup as Carl but he lost his engine and that cost him the win. Whose next? Mark Martin, a former teammate who now drives one of them Chebies. He also clearly was better than Carl, but also had to make up too much distance to overtake the back flipper and as such, used up his tires, but that doesn't mean that his team wasn't cheating too. And then there's Marky's new homey teammate, Dale Jr. Where'd he finish? Ah, right up there in the top five. Need I say more?

If they are going to penalize team Edwards, and that they will, they should then fine the whole field because they were doing everything they could up to the letter and probably a bit more, just to not only place as high as they could, but just to make the race.

Oh, and let's not forget about the little fracas with the beloved Kyle and the youngster Hamlin. Did the little Denny really think that he could take the son of the King? I mean really!
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Just trying something new.
 
Give em time

I'd say lets give NASCAR time to look over the evidence before turning into a linch mob. I agree with the statement that was made that if the right side was lowered it didn't help any. Why would they want to cheat to make it a disadvantage?
 
I voted 25 pts. I think the fines are stupid. $25000 to these guys is nothing. But points hurt.
 
I agree, wait to take any action until the investigation is over. I doubt they will find anything. If so, fine and points will most likely be the penalty.
 
I voted for 100 points, but only because 50 points wasn't an option. To me, 25 point penalties are not going to deter anyone from cheating in the future. Think about it. If you know your car is not fast enough on a particular weekend to even finish in the top 10 without some serious luck, but cheating can certainly get you to the front and maybe even get you a win, why would you not do it if you knew 25 points is the likely penalty if you are caught? You probably gained at least 25 points by cheating.
 
what about biffle bumping into him after the race, actually something like this has happened to Carl before. when he was racing trucks i think it was in 2004, on lap 2 of a race another driver got into him and Carl bouced off the wall. surprisingly Carl came back to win the race, and the truck was found to be too low, but because of the lap 2 incident, it messed up the frame and made it lower, therefore deemed as a racing incident.
 
Carl mentioned that Greg bumped him at the end for congratulations. I voted for the 25 pts., but that was because there wasn't a combo fine and pts. option. That being said, the way the question is worded, I almost didn't vote at all since with the car being low in the back, it gave him NO competitive edge. If anything, it made him slower.
 
I agree with B.O.

Whats to keep them from intentionally lowering the car and if they win getting the teammate to give them a big BUMP so they can blame it on the teammate????
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
Either put the rule and penalty in ink and enforce it across the board or erase it from the rule book.
Sure there can be mitigating circumstances like when Carl hit the wall but usually a laser level can tell if the frame is bent that much. And Biffle bumping him afterwards wouldn't, shouldn't have bent the frame.
 
I think they'll take points, but then, how often has this happened to Gordon or Johnson and they got off with a fine?

It SHOULD be 100 points because it's the Chase. They, actually, should take the win away, accident or not. It's the Chase, they need to show they're serious about keeping it fair. If a driver wins off an illegal advantadge, no matter how it happens, that win and all points should be revoked.
 
Having your car lower is not an advantage. You want your car as high as possible to put more air on the wing go give you more down force. That's why the rule is a bad rule and should be done away with for being too low in the back.
 
Not to argue, but

isn't the problem with the cot not enough front downforce? If that is true wouldn't taking some of the REAR downforce out of the car make it turn better?
Betsy:rolleyes:
 
Edwards dinged 25 points in wake of Dover infraction
By NASCAR
September 25, 2007
04:42 PM EDT

type size: + -DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Carl Edwards, winner of Sunday's Nextel Cup Series race at Dover International Speedway, has been penalized 25 driver championship points due to rule violations found in post-race inspection.

Revised Standings

Pos. Driver Points

1. Jeff Gordon 5,340
2. Tony Stewart 5,338
3. Jimmie Johnson 5,336
4. Kyle Busch 5,330
5. Clint Bowyer 5,322
6. Carl Edwards 5,312
7. Martin Truex Jr. 5,294
8. Jeff Burton 5,265
9. Kevin Harvick 5,225
10. Matt Kenseth 5,224
11. Kurt Busch 5,189
12. Denny Hamlin 5,182
The loss of points dropped Edwards from third in the Chase standings to sixth, 28 points behind leader Jeff Gordon.

The No. 99 Ford driven by Edwards was found to be too low in the right rear area, which violated Sections 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components and/or equipment not conforming to NASCAR rules); and 20-12.8.1C (failed to meet minimum rear car heights) of NASCAR Car of Tomorrow Technical Bulletin No. 3, dated April 10, 2007.

In addition, those infractions have resulted in a $25,000 fine for Edwards' crew chief Bob Osborne, plus a penalty of 25 car owner championship points for Roush Fenway Racing. Osborne also has been placed on probation until Dec. 31.

"The only thing I can think of is at the end of the race, Greg came up and gave me a couple of love taps to say 'good job, good race' and hopefully they find that that bent the tail of the car down a little bit," Edwards said after the race. "There are some braces bent under the decklid so hopefully that's what it is."

A similar infraction occurred at New Hampshire in July, when the cars of Johnny Sauter and Kyle Busch failed to meet minimum height requirements. NASCAR took away 25 points apiece and fined each crew chief $25,000.
 
Betsy said:
isn't the problem with the cot not enough front downforce? If that is true wouldn't taking some of the REAR downforce out of the car make it turn better?
Betsy:rolleyes:
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I'm just parroting what Biffle and some of the other driver's have said. Since I've never driven a COT, or a COY for that matter, I don't know. But, following your thinking with a lack of front down force if you lessen the down force on the rear you might start to lose the feel of the track at the higher speeds.
 
barelypure said:
Having your car lower is not an advantage. You want your car as high as possible to put more air on the wing go give you more down force. That's why the rule is a bad rule and should be done away with for being too low in the back.
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Nose Low and Ass Up. Lower in the back will hurt you, but lower on the front will give you more downforce.
 
kat2220 said:
Edwards dinged 25 points in wake of Dover infraction
By NASCAR
September 25, 2007
04:42 PM EDT

type size: + -DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- Carl Edwards, winner of Sunday's Nextel Cup Series race at Dover International Speedway, has been penalized 25 driver championship points due to rule violations found in post-race inspection.

Revised Standings

Pos. Driver Points

1. Jeff Gordon 5,340
2. Tony Stewart 5,338
3. Jimmie Johnson 5,336
4. Kyle Busch 5,330
5. Clint Bowyer 5,322
6. Carl Edwards 5,312
7. Martin Truex Jr. 5,294
8. Jeff Burton 5,265
9. Kevin Harvick 5,225
10. Matt Kenseth 5,224
11. Kurt Busch 5,189
12. Denny Hamlin 5,182
The loss of points dropped Edwards from third in the Chase standings to sixth, 28 points behind leader Jeff Gordon.

The No. 99 Ford driven by Edwards was found to be too low in the right rear area, which violated Sections 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 12-4-Q (car, car parts, components and/or equipment not conforming to NASCAR rules); and 20-12.8.1C (failed to meet minimum rear car heights) of NASCAR Car of Tomorrow Technical Bulletin No. 3, dated April 10, 2007.

In addition, those infractions have resulted in a $25,000 fine for Edwards' crew chief Bob Osborne, plus a penalty of 25 car owner championship points for Roush Fenway Racing. Osborne also has been placed on probation until Dec. 31.

"The only thing I can think of is at the end of the race, Greg came up and gave me a couple of love taps to say 'good job, good race' and hopefully they find that that bent the tail of the car down a little bit," Edwards said after the race. "There are some braces bent under the decklid so hopefully that's what it is."

A similar infraction occurred at New Hampshire in July, when the cars of Johnny Sauter and Kyle Busch failed to meet minimum height requirements. NASCAR took away 25 points apiece and fined each crew chief $25,000.
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That was a really light penalty. Roush can't say they're going harder on him than Hendrick now. They got off easy there.
 
If the#99 was found to be in violation then he deserves a penalty that's consistant with the rest.

We are, however, talking about a penalty for having what is basically considered to be a competitive disadvantage.

What's the difference bewteen 1st and 2nd place points? It may have been in Edwards best interest to pull over for Biffle thereby avoiding the bump and being docked points.
 
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