Put the Busch carbs on Cup cars

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Eagle1

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FOX.com

DW to Darby: Cup needs Busch carburetor, tire rules

Darrell Waltrip / AllWaltrip.com
Posted: 13 hours ago
As far as I have seen, NASCAR still hasn't reaped the benefits of better racing from its tire and spoiler changes in the Cup Series, and I think Nextel Cup Series director John Darby needs to look to the Busch Series for some solutions.

I still say they need to take away power. If they look at the Busch cars, as well as the trucks, where they run the 390 carburetor, that one change alone would make a big difference for better racing. It cuts down the amount of RPM's you can turn and slows you down on the straightaway because the engine runs out of air. You've got to drive harder. I keep hearing people say the new package puts racing back in the hands of the drivers. Well, take away the horsepower, put a smaller carburetor on there, and it'll be in the hands of the driver because he'll have to hustle like crazy.

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Oh, yes indeed, Cassie. A big conniption fit all over the garage.

But something has to be done to slow then down. I can't see ISC spending any money to re-configure Daytona and Talladega.
 
Oh, I know that, and I don't really care. As long as they're all equally slowed down, things aren't going to be much different than they are now.

And seeing as I forgot how to spell conniption, I think I lost more of my brain than I thought on my trip. ;) Oh, my head... LOL

Cassie
 
More BS from DW.

EVERY single suggestion he makes is regarding SLOWING the cars down. Just because HE is afraid to wheel the cars at today's speeds, he thinks NASCAR should throw them down. That's why he is the booth. He couldn't deal with the speed anymore.

He needs to stick to the booth and keep his mouth shut on changes to the sport.

If you slow them ALL down the same amount, what is the difference? Look what happened at Dega and Daytona..
 
Slow 'em down by taking HP away? Might as well put plates on them. :D If you just put a smaller carb on top of the same engine then all you are doing is restricting the air flow to the engine...........pretty much what a plate does. Now, if DW is talking about putting a different engine under the smaller carb, then what do you get? A Busch engine? But, since DW spoke the words I guess it must be good.........huh?

I'm with zevious........DW needs to learn to keep his trap shut about "what NASCAR needs to do". He's a commentator.........no longer a Cup driver. Come to think of it, he ain't much of a commentator either. :blink:
 
He's a commentator.........no longer a Cup driver. Come to think of it, he ain't much of a commentator either.
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Whats the differnce between a cup and bush car?

Compression, Carb size,

So if you put a bush carb it would change the comperssion so basicly they would be driving bush cars on sunday also. So i don't fell like they need to go that route.
 
Originally posted by DE_Wrangler_2@Apr 9 2004, 10:00 PM
I'm with zevious........DW needs to learn to keep his trap shut about "what NASCAR needs to do". He's a commentator.........no longer a Cup driver. Come to think of it, he ain't much of a commentator either. :blink:
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I like DW, might be one of the olny ppl that do. :lol:

But i don't think he knows what he is talking about on this, (look at my above post)
 
Compression ratio in both Cup and Bush cars is limited to 12.5:1 last I knew.

Cup runs a 785 cfm carb and Bush is restricted to a 390 cfm.
Swapping just the carbs would result in a bunch of blown up engines. Things like camshafts, valve timing, ignition curves, possibly piston dome shape, intake and exhaust manifolds, cooling systems, even gear ratios in the transmissions and differentials, amongst others, would all need to be worked with in order to get optimium horsepower, torque and engine life.

Granted, the Bush engines are there to work off from, but that series doesn't run quite the distance of the Cup events.

There are some very easy ways to limit horsepower which could also reduce costs to the teams, but neither NASCAR nor the teams want to take those steps.
 
Thanks boB..............I was pretty sure there was a lot more to it than simply throwing on a smaller carb. I'm not an expert by any means on engines, but I know you make what appears to be a simple change and you often wind up with many other changes to accommodate that one change.........it's never as simple as it appears. :D That is why I wish DW would keep his mouth shut..........he's no expert on engines either. But since he's a driver many of us take his word for it because he's a driver. A driver is only a part of a successful team........and, to be honest, not anywhere near the most important part of a team at that. :) But, all us expert fans are so anti-plate we jump on anything to bolster our hatred of NASCAR for doing what they think is best to slow the cars down..............and, we forget, that NASCAR does employ some real experts to attempt to solve these problems. :)
 
Yeah..........but then you have the whining a crying about one make having an advantage over another. :) One year it's Childress, then next it's Roush, then Ganassi, then Gibbs, then Bill Davis, then Robert Yates, then Evernham............ect, ad nausea!! Everyone screamed "common templates".........well we more or less got 'em!! Now we want it back to "stock". Man, are we a fickle lot!! :D :D
 
Originally posted by zevious@Apr 9 2004, 08:41 PM
More BS from DW.

EVERY single suggestion he makes is regarding SLOWING the cars down. Just because HE is afraid to wheel the cars at today's speeds, he thinks NASCAR should throw them down. That's why he is the booth. He couldn't deal with the speed anymore.

He needs to stick to the booth and keep his mouth shut on changes to the sport.

If you slow them ALL down the same amount, what is the difference? Look what happened at Dega and Daytona..
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Jaws and his inability to keep up with "that red Thunderbird" are the reason we have restrictor plates today. Don't y'all give me that Bobby Allison in the fence noise either, that had so little to do with it as to be laughable. Jaws said in the 80s that he was scared to go as fast as they were going. He was a coward and a moron then, and he's a coward and a moron now. If he endorsed the consumption of oxygen as a good idea, I'd oppose it.
 
Originally posted by EatMorePossum+Apr 10 2004, 08:39 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EatMorePossum @ Apr 10 2004, 08:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--zevious@Apr 9 2004, 08:41 PM
More BS from DW.

EVERY single suggestion he makes is regarding SLOWING the cars down. Just because HE is afraid to wheel the cars at today's speeds, he thinks NASCAR should throw them down. That's why he is the booth. He couldn't deal with the speed anymore.

He needs to stick to the booth and keep his mouth shut on changes to the sport.

If you slow them ALL down the same amount, what is the difference? Look what happened at Dega and Daytona..
Click to expand...
Jaws and his inability to keep up with "that red Thunderbird" are the reason we have restrictor plates today. Don't y'all give me that Bobby Allison in the fence noise either, that had so little to do with it as to be laughable. Jaws said in the 80s that he was scared to go as fast as they were going. He was a coward and a moron then, and he's a coward and a moron now. If he endorsed the consumption of oxygen as a good idea, I'd oppose it. [/b][/quote]
Is that why you hate Mikey so much? Hey, I don't like Geoffery Bodine.........but I also don't let that dislike carry over to his brother Todd. :wacko:
 
No, I've despised Mike since he came on the circuit for comlpetely different reasons.
 
Originally posted by Lap3Forever@Apr 10 2004, 03:21 PM
Whats the differnce between a cup and bush car?

Compression, Carb size,

So if you put a bush carb it would change the comperssion so basicly they would be driving bush cars on sunday also. So i don't fell like they need to go that route.
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The last I knew The bush cars are less weight, less comp ratio (9x1 ?)Less ratio fits carb which is smaller. Some engine work is different.
Someone said stk bodies. Good idea, if someone has the advantage them mfgs need to change. Make it better.
 
There are a lot of ways to slow cars (if needed?). Killing the engine shouldn't be one of them. Cheapest and best way to do this is by narrowing the tires. Simple isn't it?
 
Originally posted by EJL+Apr 11 2004, 10:14 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (EJL @ Apr 11 2004, 10:14 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Lap3Forever@Apr 10 2004, 03:21 PM
Whats the differnce between a cup and bush car?

Compression, Carb size,

So if you put a bush carb it would change the comperssion so basicly they would be driving bush cars on sunday also. So i don't fell like they need to go that route.
Click to expand...
The last I knew The bush cars are less weight, less comp ratio (9x1 ?)Less ratio fits carb which is smaller. Some engine work is different.
Someone said stk bodies. Good idea, if someone has the advantage them mfgs need to change. Make it better. [/b][/quote]
I also said they need to use stock bodys, :)
 
Originally posted by EJL@Apr 11 2004, 10:20 AM
There are a lot of ways to slow cars (if needed?). Killing the engine shouldn't be one of them. Cheapest and best way to do this is by narrowing the tires. Simple isn't it?
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I've always thought that narrower tires would be the best way to slow cars down, especially at the big tracks. Cutting horsepower without reducing corner speeds amounts to the same effect as a restrictor plate. If you narrowed the tires by 1/2"-1" from the current 10" wide specs, that would slow corner speeds and make the racing better - and reduce the need for a restrictor plate.
 
Aww yes, we'll simply change the tires.

In that today's NASCAR race cars depend on the spring-rate characteristics of the tires as a large part of the basic handling set-up all that would require would be different springs and shocks, different camber settings which could very well require different control arm lengths to maintain the proper camber curve which probably would change the rollcenters which.....

Well, I think you should get the idea here.

Everything which sounds so simple effects so many other things that suddenly we're rebuilding cars and chassis at more cost which is the thing we're trying to control.

The whole idea of racing is to attempt to go as fast as you possibly can while avoiding all those other fools on the same piece of real estate who are attempting to go faster than you are capable of going.
If you still have complete control over your car and are not scaring yourself and everyone around you, you simply ain't going fast enough.
And going fast has never been cheap!! (Nor conducive to a long and healthy life, either!)

But it's so damn much fun!!! lol :bounce:
 
boB you said it better than I ever could. :D If all these suggestions were really all that simple, I'm sure it's been explored by real experts......not us arm chair ones who just plain don't like NASCAR for whatever reason. :) Simple solutions to complicated problems seldom work........and when they they do work, they are almost never satisfactory. I have the simplest solution of all to the plates..........toss them in some of that Georgia clay! :D But that ain't gonna work either......airborne race cars don't corner very well at all!! :( But it would solve the tire wear problem!! :D
 
Originally posted by boB@Apr 12 2004, 09:09 AM
Aww yes, we'll simply change the tires.

In that today's NASCAR race cars depend on the spring-rate characteristics of the tires as a large part of the basic handling set-up all that would require would be different springs and shocks, different camber settings which could very well require different control arm lengths to maintain the proper camber curve which probably would change the rollcenters which.....

Well, I think you should get the idea here.

Everything which sounds so simple effects so many other things that suddenly we're rebuilding cars and chassis at more cost which is the thing we're trying to control.

The whole idea of racing is to attempt to go as fast as you possibly can while avoiding all those other fools on the same piece of real estate who are attempting to go faster than you are capable of going.
If you still have complete control over your car and are not scaring yourself and everyone around you, you simply ain't going fast enough.
And going fast has never been cheap!! (Nor conducive to a long and healthy life, either!)

But it's so damn much fun!!! lol :bounce:
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Don't a lot of these things get changed from race to race already? Or would the changes be more involved than the setup changes that teams talk about?
 
no more windtunnel testing make them run a short track car at Daga and daytona, no tape on the nose and lay back the spoiler to oh say 35 to 40 degrees that would slow them down and cut cost at thesametime, windtunnel time ain't cheap.
by the way if you get caught in the windtunnel your out for the rest of the year
 
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