Question about the 358 cu in rule

[Betsy]

Wasn't it lil E that once had an engine that was a bit over the 358? And the appeals board ruled that 358 POINT something or other wasn't 359 and therefore threw out the fine?
Somewhere in my old memory is where this came from.
The .17 over from a blown engine seems a little out of line for the size of fine to me. And no I am not a fan of theirs.
Betsy

 

[Eagle1]

I dont know the answer to your question Betsy, bit I agree about the penalty being extremely excessive for that

The thing is I believe in order for NASCAR to set the precedent for other teams, but the appeals board can over turn and lesson the penalty if they see fit. I'm hoping they do.

 

[Joniki]

I think you are right Betsy. I have heard Long's engine got a bit warm and when they refreshed it the head gasket was too thick hence the .17 infraction.

 

[Camp65]

It is a fine line when they set this stuff up on the cubic inches and compression ratio. This is why these engines are "blue printed" to get the exact tolerances. When you over heat these things it can change things around. A team like Carl Long may try and short cut things because they have too. Last time I checked a freshen up on one of these engines it was north of $8K and that is not taking into account that the engine was overheated and maybe had some cylinder head damage. For around $8K and or may be higher you will get new pistons rings, valve springs, bearings and likely the camshaft is junk. Now the big teams replace practically everything because the budget allows. Carls budget does not allow this. If it did he would not be down 40 horsepower. He does the best with what he has as do all the small teams.

Too make it simple (IF this was the case with Longs and this is just speculation at best)...to thick of a head gasket increases the cylinder volume. Too thin and the compression goes up and that is another issue. We are talking about thousandths of an inch. There also is a minimum cubic inch rule of 350ci. Back in 1988 if I remember correctly Rusty Wallace won a bunch of races in a row in the run up to the championship that Bill Elliot won. Come too find out Wallaces Pontiacs where only running around 300ci and maybe less. The smaller cubic inches required less air flow he actually made more power and got better gas mileage. NASCAR did not like this and implemented the 350 minimum in 1989.

In now way would I ever think Carl Long did this intentionally. It is a shame.

Why so much fine? NASCAR said a few years back these penaltys would increase every time too make sure they keep the competitors attention.

I was working on a Cup car at Daytona back in 1998 and when they "whistled" (compression check) the engine it was at 12.1 compression...12.0 is the maximum allowed. This was the engine going into the car after qualifying and would be run in the 125s on thursday. This same engine had been used in January at the test down there. The officals determined that due to some slight carbon build up from the previous time on the engine this is what caused the problem. Now in now way where they going to allow that car on the track with that engine. We put a 0.015 thicker head gasket on. This dropped the the compression to 11.8 and brought the cubes up to 357.6 No big fines back then. NASCAR would actually work with you as long as it was not blatant. As I said in a previous post a small team will leave some room on this as not to go over.

 

[Camp65]

As far as the Earnhardt Jr. deal went I do not think they had allowed the cool down time so the fine was tossed. The rule is below.

Engine displacement may be increased or decreased by changing the
cylinder bore diameter and/or the crankshaft stroke length. The cylinder bore
diameter must not exceed 4.185 inches.
The total cubic inch displacement must not be less than the minimum
engine size of 350.000 cubic inch displacement or greater than the maximum
engine size of 358.000 cubic inch displacement.
The formula for determining the cubic inch displacement is as follows: Bore
x Bore x Stroke x .7854 equals the cubic inch displacement of each cylinder.
The cubic inch displacement of each cylinder added together will determine
the total cubic inch displacement of the engine. Unless otherwise permitted
by race Officials, a maximum cooling down time of two (2) hours from the
official completion time of the Race will be permitted prior to measuring the
total cubic inch displacement.
B. Compression Ratio
For all Events, the maximum allowable compression ratio permitted on any
cylinder will be 12.0 to 1 on all engines. When calculating the compression
ratio, an allowance of one (1) cubic centimeter will be added to the volume for
the area around the top of the piston down to the top of the piston ring that
will be sealed with grease.
The procedure for calculating the compression ratio is as follows: Bore x
Bore x Stroke x .7854 x 16.387 equals the Cylinder Volume of a cylinder at
Bottom Dead Center (BDC) in cubic centimeters. The Cylinder Head Pour
Volume minus (-) the known volume of the cylinder head plate plus (+) Head
Gasket Volume plus (+) 1.00 cc for sealing the piston ring plus (+) the Cylinder
Block Volume minus (-) the known volume of the block plate equals (=)
Chamber Volume.
Compression Ratio = Cylinder Volume plus (+) Chamber Volume
Chamber Volume

 

[dpkimmel2001]

Wasn't it lil E that once had an engine that was a bit over the 358? And the appeals board ruled that 358 POINT something or other wasn't 359 and therefore threw out the fine?

As far as the Earnhardt Jr. deal went I do not think they had allowed the cool down time so the fine was tossed.

Could you post a link to the story on the Earnhardt Engine penalty? I don't remember this story. Thanks.

 

[Camp65]

Never was a actual fine or penalty that I recall so I apologize for using "fine" in my recollection. It was over size when first checked and after the cool down period it was fine. Another one of those deals that the media reported and it got blown out of proportion.