Rate the Race...Dover II

A

Awesome_Bill

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Ya know, theres nothing more that i hate then a fuel race. I'll give todays a 2, for the "saving fuel" battle there at the end. But it just seems odd that it went from 10 laps short to 7, and then 6 caution laps are enough for a burnout and a victory lap, not to mention theres no way he could have saved any under green. A little suspicious if you ask me....
 
Not much action till the very end....

Give it a 6.

NASCAR is truly ruining stock car racing with it's common template stuff. Even the short track races are snoozers.

As for Ryan's mileage. How they get that kind of power AND that kind of mileage out of the engine is beyond me.
 
I don't think this was really a fuel race, and hate that JR is in hospital, but it was sure better than the snoozer yesterday. I'll give it a 6 :)
 
I only watched the last half of it, I'd give it a 5.
 
I prob. would have said something like a 7 but now I give it a 2. :( Dangit I missed it at the end :angry:
 
3.5

It's good that Ryan wins, but for someone to go 106 laps without pitting. That's just I cant really find the words to describe that, it seems unbelievable.

Good run for Harvick, that's why this gets the added 3.
 
yeah good job for Harvick, still not a fan of his but good job.
 
1.5 Anothe fuel mileage yawner. Either there is something fishy about Ryan's tank or Borland is a liar. I hope Borland lies. How do you make that much horsepower and get that much gas mileage? How big is that 22 gallon tank?

Before anyone gets all upset, I'm just asking , nor trying to start a war.
 
8. Lot of different leaders for a lot of different reasons, plus Newman coming back the way he did....and, so far so good re. the elimination of racing back to the caution.
 
7

Only saw the last half, but the duel really had my heart pumping...

Can't wait to hear Jr.'s diagnosis....
 
Originally posted by nascarwoman@Sep 21 2003, 04:43 PM
How do you make that much horsepower and get that much gas mileage? How big is that 22 gallon tank?
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One would have to know what is inside the engine to know for sure, but folks willing to expriment with valve seat angles, rotation of the valve bowl, runner cross section and floor, along with different approaches to valve timing can get very interesting results.
 
Missed the last 50 laps.... :mellow: Im kinda glad that Newman got it, but if they did do something fishy then I take that back.
 
Ryan Newman is a automotive Engineer If anybody can strech the fuel milige he could. But I still find it hard to belive even he could strech it 10 to 15 laps.
 
10 - 15 laps is a "little" ways for how much fuel they "didnt" have.
 
Originally posted by Gollum@Sep 21 2003, 10:01 PM
Ryan Newman is a automotive Engineer If anybody can strech the fuel milige he could. But I still find it hard to belive even he could strech it 10 to 15 laps.
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Well Gollum, its kinda hard to strech the fuel when your battling side by side with Mayfield, who had no worries about fuel. So in that respect, he wasn't saving a drop of fuel from the final yellow. I must say that something was for sure "odd" about that car. Heck he even had enough for a burnout and a victory lap!
 
Originally posted by Awesome_Bill@Sep 21 2003, 05:41 PM
Well Gollum, its kinda hard to strech the fuel when your battling side by side with Mayfield, who had no worries about fuel. So in that respect, he wasn't saving a drop of fuel from the final yellow. I must say that something was for sure "odd" about that car. Heck he even had enough for a burnout and a victory lap!
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*shaking head*...you think nascar supsects anything?
 
Originally posted by Windsor377+Sep 21 2003, 04:54 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Windsor377 @ Sep 21 2003, 04:54 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--nascarwoman@Sep 21 2003, 04:43 PM
How do you make that much horsepower and get that much gas mileage?&nbsp; How big is that 22 gallon tank?
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One would have to know what is inside the engine to know for sure, but folks willing to expriment with valve seat angles, rotation of the valve bowl, runner cross section and floor, along with different approaches to valve timing can get very interesting results. [/b][/quote]
Ok, I can see where creativity and a willingness to take a chance could pay dividends. But, is doing all the things you mentioned legal, or does it push the grey area.

I understood most of what you said. But, could you explain...." runner cross section and floor". I'm not to good with motors and engineering. Thanks Windsor. :huh:
 
The runner cross section is how big the port is or isn't in cross sectional area. Also rememebr there is a length for the runner and the cross sectional area will vary a bit from face opening to the orifice at the valve.

The floor of the runner can be manipulated to help the air turn down into the direction of the valve, often at the expense of total air flow. In the end, it may work wonders with the low and mid range lift of a flat tappet cam and help prevent intake flow from migrating over towards the open exhaust valve during overlap period...which would reduce fuel waste...makes sense?

P.S. as long as you do not weld up the port in order to alter or create a port shape, you are in the green. Also, you are ok as long as you do not alter the valve locations, angles, cants (if any).
 
Yea, I think I got it. So, another question. If you do this, what is the risk that you can break something and have the engine go away. Is this something all teams do, or is Penske that far ahead of the curve. Also, if this is new engineering, could this be why Ryan runs better than Rusty. 'Cuz Rusty doesn't want to take the chance and try it?
One final question.....are you one of those engineer folks or did you learn all this neat stuff by working on your own cars?
 
Originally posted by Awesome_Bill+Sep 21 2003, 10:41 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Awesome_Bill @ Sep 21 2003, 10:41 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin--Gollum@Sep 21 2003, 10:01 PM
Ryan Newman is a automotive Engineer If anybody can strech the fuel milige he could. But I still find it hard to belive even he could strech it 10 to 15 laps.
Click to expand...
Well Gollum, its kinda hard to strech the fuel when your battling side by side with Mayfield, who had no worries about fuel. So in that respect, he wasn't saving a drop of fuel from the final yellow. I must say that something was for sure "odd" about that car. Heck he even had enough for a burnout and a victory lap! [/b][/quote]
Oh I agree. That's why I said I find it hard to belive he could do it.
 
As long as you leave enough material around the port, you wont hurt longevity. Where you may hurt things is in the valve timing. When trying to keep the valve on it's seat for a long as possible (builds torque and mpg), but still feed the cylinder at high rpm (builds hp), you can cause a lot of stress on the valve train if you don't manage the transition points very well (getting on and off the base, going onto and off the nose).

For your other question, a little of both. I took a lot of engineering classes while still in school many years ago for the intent of making cars go fast. I've also spent a lot of time working with my own stuff, but making sure I knew why things worked the way they did before I tried something.
 
Windsor. I am not a automotive spec. and didn't understant one word of that. But it sounded good so I'll buy it. :lol:
 
From my veiw in section 205 race was typical Dover.BORING. Also the give the lap back thing is stupid. Ask Newman he won by it and still doesn't think it's fair. Milage or tinkering it makes for a boring race. Of course this seems to be where it's going. I don't like it but I'll still be there.


:(
 
Originally posted by nascarwoman@Sep 21 2003, 09:03 PM
Is this something all teams do, or is Penske that far ahead of the curve. Also, if this is new engineering, could this be why Ryan runs better than Rusty. 'Cuz Rusty doesn't want to take the chance and try it?
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Sorry, I missed this before. Unfortunately, you would have to be behind the Penske shop walls to answer either of these questions. Most folks are always working every possible angle, also some folks just out right have their philosophy and wont deviate. Can't really answer if Penske is far ahead of everyone else in general terms, but maybe they've found a combination others have un-covered just yet.
 
I have to give it an 8 because it was more exciting to be there in person. The race seemed to go by too fast for me.
 
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