Richard Petty Motorsports to Toyota/TRD?

FLRacingFan

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2) Speaking of Toyota…Was that the King meeting with representatives from auto manufacturer at Richmond? According to multiple sources, Richard Petty Motorsports is contemplating leaving Ford when its contract expires at the end of this year. One sticking point, however, could be engines. TRD currently has the capability to provide eight teams with engines. Although there are only three teams from Joe Gibbs Racing and three from Michael Waltrip Racing exercising that option, who’s to say that either of those operations isn’t considering expansion in the future. Without TRD engines, a partnership with Toyota isn’t nearly as attractive. After having your cars powered by Roush Yates engines, Triad would certainly be a step down.
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http://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/will-goodyear-s-new-tire-pay-off-at-kansas-speedway/
 
Not the best team, but I'd welcome them. The article says TRD can only provide engines for eight teams, but RPM shouldn't have anything to worry about as far as expansion. JGR doesn't look like they'll ever go beyond three full time teams, and MWR just shrunk down to two teams.
 
Wouldn't be surprised to see them make a switch. They've known for a while now that they're at the bottom of the Ford totem pole and I'm not too sure Ford has much interest in RPM either.

After Penske signed with Ford, RPM was kind of left with the scraps so it might be a good move for them to get some more support. They have shown some speed at some tracks, so it could help Toyota as well.
 
I don't understand why TRD can only make engines for 8 teams... is that a rule or something? I mean are they not (I assume they are) a multi billion dollar company? I assume being in NASCAR only helps that. The teams buy the engines so it's not like it would cost TRD more... How hard would it be to make some more engines? :idunno:
 
I think this might be a good move for RPM. I'm all for it.

I wonder what offers Biffle has had? He said he has options. Hmmm?
 
Is it just me, or is there talk of RPM switching manufacturers every.single.year???? If Dodge was still in the sport, they would've been rocking Chargers last year.

I don't think it matters what they do. They are the third best team at Ford right now, they would be third at TRD too. I think they need a better driver in the 43.
 
TooSweet said:
Is it just me, or is there talk of RPM switching manufacturers every.single.year???? If Dodge was still in the sport, they would've been rocking Chargers last year.

I don't think it matters what they do. They are the third best team at Ford right now, they would be third at TRD too. I think they need a better driver in the 43.
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It seems both the 9 and the 43 are a hit or miss. They seems to do good for a couple races then fall off. I don't get it.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
I don't understand why TRD can only make engines for 8 teams... is that a rule or something? I mean are they not (I assume they are) a multi billion dollar company? I assume being in NASCAR only helps that. The teams buy the engines so it's not like it would cost TRD more... How hard would it be to make some more engines? :idunno:
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I'm not sure how it works in NASCAR but IndyCar has a limit as to what engine suppliers Chevy and Honda can charge teams for engine leases, except that limit is well below what it costs to design, develop, and race the engine so the suppliers basically end up subsidizing the teams. It's actually gotten to the point where both Chevy and Honda have been publicly calling for a third supplier to enter the sport since they won't each be able to support half the field for much longer.

Consider that NASCAR's schedule is twice as long and engines are burnt through quicker and you can see how that could be an issue.
 
TooSweet said:
I don't think it matters what they do. They are the third best team at Ford right now, they would be third at TRD too. I think they need a better driver in the 43.
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i agree with this. need to put an effort in finding some talent to just have a top 5 team or at least top 12 driver, no matter what make of cars you race.
 
pudge said:
i agree with this. need to put an effort in finding some talent to just have a top 5 team or at least top 12 driver, no matter what make of cars you race.
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I think if they were at Toyota they would get their engines for free.
 
TooSweet said:
Is it just me, or is there talk of RPM switching manufacturers every.single.year???? If Dodge was still in the sport, they would've been rocking Chargers last year.

I don't think it matters what they do. They are the third best team at Ford right now, they would be third at TRD too. I think they need a better driver in the 43.
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I think it's just a negotiating ploy to get some love from Yates and Ford. If RPM leaves, Yates has to down-size. That's never good. The people you let go end up at the new engine supplier for RPM.

HMS supplies engines for 9 or 10 teams now, so there isn't a '8 only' rule. 4 HMS, 4 SHR, 2 Gnassi and probably some others I can't remember.
 
FenderBumper said:
I think it's just a negotiating ploy to get some love from Yates and Ford. If RPM leaves, Yates has to down-size. That's never good. The people you let go end up at the new engine supplier for RPM.

HMS supplies engines for 9 or 10 teams now, so there isn't a '8 only' rule. 4 HMS, 4 SHR, 2 Gnassi and probably some others I can't remember.
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#51 car
 
Kind of behind on this post, but here we go.....Spencer has been reporting the 8 team capacity at TRD for some time. Eight stretches the resources of the company, but is doable. I believe that 6 is the preferred number. Why is Spencer reporting 8? Because TRD will support MWR and JGR if they both were to go to the maximum 4 cars per team. In essence, they wouldn't say "No" to Coach and "Yes" to Mikey. In reality, JGR will always have room for expansion with TRD to 4 cars--that is priority 1. MWR's role is negotiable as they rely heavily on Toyota for support.

As for the idea of bringing Petty Motorsports into the fold? There is no question that Toyota would want the biggest name in NASCAR as part of the family. We saw that this was crucial with DW, and would bring cartwheels to both upper management in North America and Japan as well. For reasons other than team strength, there would be no question that Toyota would welcome The King. Having said that, I feel that JGR would have to be okay with the move as well. TRD does not want to do anything to piss Coach off. The other thing to note is that with a smaller number of teams, JGR has a degree of exclusivity with TRD. Kind of like an Engine/Engineering Shop that they don't have to pay for (or pay much for). It is common knowledge that communications between JGR and MWR had to be fostered, and had never been automatic. JGR likes to keep their stuff in-house as does any big player. Toyota/TRD has to be careful here--they do not want to jump at the temptation of landing the biggest name in NASCAR, and lose a big dog in the Championship. They will not sacrifice Coach for The King IMO.

Another crucial thing to note is that performance of late will play into this in my mind. TRD would need to show Coach that performance wouldn't drop off with more teams. Performance has sucked lately. This has the potential of flipping the question....Instead of "Will the performance suffer with more teams?", the question might turn to "How can RPM help make all of the teams better?" Tough questions to think about.

Sliced--In terms of building capacity.....TRD pretty much siphons money from Toyota NA, and Toyota NA and Toyota Japan pretty much leave TRD alone. All NA asks for in return is some evidence that participation in NASCAR sells cars. It does. Thirty percent of all Toyota buyers note the NASCAR participation as at least a partial influence in their buying decisions. Toyota NA is happy with that. Toyota Japan is more interested in image. Are we winning? They want a Championship very badly, and they have taken it hard that they don't have one yet. There is pressure. So, TRD pockets are not as deep as guys like Jack Roush think given that TRD and Toyota are really two separate entities. This limits the number of teams that can be supported in addition to the fact that you are looking at a staff of 200-250 in Costa Mesa, and I believe a smaller staff in TRD NC. Do not forget that TRD doesn't just build motors. They also assist teams in chassis building, engineering, race support, etc. That staff of roughly 400 or so is pretty small with all of those responsibilities. The other piece to consider in taking on RPM is TRD's ability to respond to problems such as the massive ones this year in a timely fashion. More teams--longer turn arounds. Again, JGR is crucial here. Any depreciation in the quality of support would be devastating for TRD and Toyota in terms of its relationship with JGR. Once again, in the context of the subpar performance this year, it would be a hard sell to convince Coach that all will be okay unless RPM is bringing something to the table. One last note in terms of what teams are charged for their engines, etc......That question needs to be answered with another question...."How much is it worth to TRD/Toyota to have JGR in the fold?" Words can't express the significance. So, in a nutshell, I'm betting that Coach doesn't worry too much about the engine bill. Mikey probably worries a little more.

So, there it is folks.......
 
Clarification: TRD North Carolina has approximately 50 employees while TRD Costa Mesa employes roughly 200.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
Because it's RPM
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Mid tier team. If they can bring something, I'm good. If they dilute the resources, I am not. I like both drivers, and Ambrose is good for a road course win or two. Amirola has shown promise.
 
Reading on Jayski that a Toyota deal with RPM would NOT be a TRD deal.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I'm not sure how it works in NASCAR but IndyCar has a limit as to what engine suppliers Chevy and Honda can charge teams for engine leases, except that limit is well below what it costs to design, develop, and race the engine so the suppliers basically end up subsidizing the teams. It's actually gotten to the point where both Chevy and Honda have been publicly calling for a third supplier to enter the sport since they won't each be able to support half the field for much longer.

Consider that NASCAR's schedule is twice as long and engines are burnt through quicker and you can see how that could be an issue.
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That's scary. I hope a 3rd or 4th manufacturer bites soon or we might really be phucked.
 
Revman said:
Kind of behind on this post, but here we go.....Spencer has been reporting the 8 team capacity at TRD for some time. Eight stretches the resources of the company, but is doable. I believe that 6 is the preferred number. Why is Spencer reporting 8? Because TRD will support MWR and JGR if they both were to go to the maximum 4 cars per team. In essence, they wouldn't say "No" to Coach and "Yes" to Mikey. In reality, JGR will always have room for expansion with TRD to 4 cars--that is priority 1. MWR's role is negotiable as they rely heavily on Toyota for support.

As for the idea of bringing Petty Motorsports into the fold? There is no question that Toyota would want the biggest name in NASCAR as part of the family. We saw that this was crucial with DW, and would bring cartwheels to both upper management in North America and Japan as well. For reasons other than team strength, there would be no question that Toyota would welcome The King. Having said that, I feel that JGR would have to be okay with the move as well. TRD does not want to do anything to piss Coach off. The other thing to note is that with a smaller number of teams, JGR has a degree of exclusivity with TRD. Kind of like an Engine/Engineering Shop that they don't have to pay for (or pay much for). It is common knowledge that communications between JGR and MWR had to be fostered, and had never been automatic. JGR likes to keep their stuff in-house as does any big player. Toyota/TRD has to be careful here--they do not want to jump at the temptation of landing the biggest name in NASCAR, and lose a big dog in the Championship. They will not sacrifice Coach for The King IMO.

Another crucial thing to note is that performance of late will play into this in my mind. TRD would need to show Coach that performance wouldn't drop off with more teams. Performance has sucked lately. This has the potential of flipping the question....Instead of "Will the performance suffer with more teams?", the question might turn to "How can RPM help make all of the teams better?" Tough questions to think about.

Sliced--In terms of building capacity.....TRD pretty much siphons money from Toyota NA, and Toyota NA and Toyota Japan pretty much leave TRD alone. All NA asks for in return is some evidence that participation in NASCAR sells cars. It does. Thirty percent of all Toyota buyers note the NASCAR participation as at least a partial influence in their buying decisions. Toyota NA is happy with that. Toyota Japan is more interested in image. Are we winning? They want a Championship very badly, and they have taken it hard that they don't have one yet. There is pressure. So, TRD pockets are not as deep as guys like Jack Roush think given that TRD and Toyota are really two separate entities. This limits the number of teams that can be supported in addition to the fact that you are looking at a staff of 200-250 in Costa Mesa, and I believe a smaller staff in TRD NC. Do not forget that TRD doesn't just build motors. They also assist teams in chassis building, engineering, race support, etc. That staff of roughly 400 or so is pretty small with all of those responsibilities. The other piece to consider in taking on RPM is TRD's ability to respond to problems such as the massive ones this year in a timely fashion. More teams--longer turn arounds. Again, JGR is crucial here. Any depreciation in the quality of support would be devastating for TRD and Toyota in terms of its relationship with JGR. Once again, in the context of the subpar performance this year, it would be a hard sell to convince Coach that all will be okay unless RPM is bringing something to the table. One last note in terms of what teams are charged for their engines, etc......That question needs to be answered with another question...."How much is it worth to TRD/Toyota to have JGR in the fold?" Words can't express the significance. So, in a nutshell, I'm betting that Coach doesn't worry too much about the engine bill. Mikey probably worries a little more.

So, there it is folks.......
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You sure do know your turd. Haha
 
DUN24 said:
That's scary. I hope a 3rd or 4th manufacturer bites soon or we might really be phucked.
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IndyCar does that because the series ate itself when it was Champ Car. IndyCar anticipated more manufacturer interest by this point I think, but the problem is that it is still IndyCar, and manufacturers still aren't willing. I can't see Toyota ever biting on that series again given the astronomical costs of the Champ Car days. NASCAR is the place to be. Not completely sure how it works in NASCAR, but I know that the deal Germain and JTG have with RCR involves tiers of service dependent upon the degree of set up support you want, etc. So, I am wondering if the money is in the builder as opposed to the manufacturer. Not sure how it works with Chevy and Ford, but TRD basically siphons money off of Toyota. The return is in the car sales. So, I am guessing that the block, head, etc. package from manufacturer to manufacturer is pretty close in terms of cost, but the expense comes from the builder you are working with. As long as the builders are willing to support satellite teams, it really doesn't matter how many manufacturers you have IMO. Could be wrong here....just kind of brainstorming.
 
Revman said:
IndyCar does that because the series ate itself when it was Champ Car. IndyCar anticipated more manufacturer interest by this point I think, but the problem is that it is still IndyCar, and manufacturers still aren't willing. I can't see Toyota ever biting on that series again given the astronomical costs of the Champ Car days. NASCAR is the place to be. Not completely sure how it works in NASCAR, but I know that the deal Germain and JTG have with RCR involves tiers of service dependent upon the degree of set up support you want, etc. So, I am wondering if the money is in the builder as opposed to the manufacturer. Not sure how it works with Chevy and Ford, but TRD basically siphons money off of Toyota. The return is in the car sales. So, I am guessing that the block, head, etc. package from manufacturer to manufacturer is pretty close in terms of cost, but the expense comes from the builder you are working with. As long as the builders are willing to support satellite teams, it really doesn't matter how many manufacturers you have IMO. Could be wrong here....just kind of brainstorming.
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As far as manufacturers and teams, I'm sure there is a lot of "I'll rub your back if you back mine" and that is the same as TRD to Toyota.

I would love to see Toyota in open wheel. As a NASCAR fan, don't really care for toyota.. As far as the west coast rest of me though... I ****** love Toyota.

Yota bombers are the ****. You can throw a stock 4 banger 88 toyota hilux pick-up sideways through the dirt at 70 all day and then jump a 60 foot table top and then drive it 2+ hours home from the desert and drive it to work on Monday. They.Are.The.****.
 
DUN24 said:
As far as manufacturers and teams, I'm sure there is a lot of "I'll rub your back if you back mine" and that is the same as TRD to Toyota.

I would love to see Toyota in open wheel. As a NASCAR fan, don't really care for toyota.. As far as the west coast rest of me though... I ******* love Toyota.

Yota bombers are the ****. You can throw a stock 4 banger 88 toyota hilux pick-up sideways through the dirt at 70 all day and then jump a 60 foot table top and then drive it 2+ hours home from the desert and drive it to work on Monday. They.Are.The.****.
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TRD is about rubbing Toyota's back if I understand you correctly. When they want funding, they go to Toyota's Board of Directors just like any other department in the Toyota Corporate structure. The difficult part is that TRD asks for a lot to support its teams, and the return is somewhat ambiguous in terms of the return on sales. The word is that 30% of all buyers cite some NASCAR interest as a reason for buying. It is this number that TRD hangs its hat on in terms of justification for the money Toyota Corporate grants. There is a ton of money going TRD's way for 30% of the buyers giving a ****. Corporate is good with that, however. The other thing to consider is that TRD sometimes is treated like a third wheel with its teams--particularly JGR. When things go to ****, it's TRD's fault. When things are good, it's JGR and kind of TRD. TRD is in a very difficult spot. Closer to its teams than a manufacturer, yet more distant than a builder in the eyes of some at JGR. TRD's goal is to get JGR a Championship, and then who the hell cares is most responsible--it's win, win. This Championship is absolutely crucial to Toyota NA and Toyota Japan. The prestige would be immense, and it wouldn't hurt that 30% number I wouldn't think.
 
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