Rule changes for 2020

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by Mike Crayne, Oct 1, 2019.

  1. Mike Crayne

    Mike Crayne Team Owner

    Cost cutting even more.

    • The current extended parts freeze will remain in place through 2020 (teams are not permitted to design any new parts for the current car).
    • Each car number will be permitted to have a maximum of 12 certified chassis at any given time. In addition, each organization will be permitted to have a maximum of 10 unique chassis designs.
    • Teams must compete in a minimum of eight events with a long block sealed engine and at least eight with a short block sealed engine (this year teams had to run three long block sealed engines and 12 short block sealed engines.)
    • Each team will be allowed three roster spots regardless of number of vehicles in the organization. In addition, a maximum of 10 road crew personnel will be allowed on each roster.
    • Organizations will be permitted a total of 150 wind tunnel testing hours per calendar year.
    Kiante, Turtle84, AuzGrams and 2 others like this.
  2. Hawaii808

    Hawaii808 Team Owner

    Next year:

    Chassis: 12 "Active" allowed per number. 4 allowed as "inactive" for future use. Total of 10 unique designs allowed.
    (That's a hell of a lot of cars. HMS alone could have as many as 60 cars around)

    Wind Tunnel time is limited to 150 hours per year.
    (Per number or team? My guess is per number)

    Engines: "Teams must compete in a minimum of eight events with a full long-block sealed engine and at least eight events with a short-block sealed engine. Previous rules dictated three full long-block seals and 13 short-block sealed engines."
    (Fewer calls to "burn it down" in 2020 I guess).

    Parts "Freeze" currently in effect until the Gen 7 car debuts.
    (We got inventory to use up!).

    My thought is it's all about reducing costs, but you can count on the top tier team$ using every available cha$$i$ and engine allowed.
    Turtle84 likes this.
  3. Acs

    Acs Team Owner

    I would have liked to have seen a tweak to the short track/road course aero package but overall these are good changes that will save teams $$$
    StandOnIt likes this.
  4. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

  5. hidesert cowboy

    hidesert cowboy Team Owner

    I would like to have seen the full 750 hp used at pocono and darlington, aka the short track package.
  6. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    Good rules, IMO. The chassis limit and wind tunnel limit are two new mechanisms of cost containment. The specific limits imposed seem pretty liberal to me, but it's important to see if this works and what the enforcement issues are. The limits will be tightened further in coming years, I suspect. There has been talk of ~6 chassis per car number with Gen 7 spec chassis!

    The manpower limit and multi-use engine rule are tweaks of prior cost containment mechanisms. I absolutely expect further moves to extend mileage between engine rebuilds in future years. Good stuff, IMO.
    Mike Crayne and Turtle84 like this.
  7. Switchback

    Switchback Team Owner

    How are they going to enforce all this?
    Charlie Spencer likes this.
  8. Taco

    Taco Team Owner

    Some organizations will have 300 hours in the tunnel.
  9. MRM

    MRM Team Owner

    That's what I was thinking.
  10. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Certification. If its not stamped by NASCAR you wont run it, chassis or motor. Wind tunnel time will be tracked thru NASCAR.
    Turtle84 likes this.
  11. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    You should see how many they have now! ;)
  12. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Pinkie swears.
    jws926 and Turtle84 like this.
  13. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Team Owner

    I like the limited chassis rule. Let the teams do some of their own design work on that end, just limit them to the number they can manufacture per season
  14. Switchback

    Switchback Team Owner

    How are they going to track wind tunnel time for a team that owns there own?
    Whiskyb and Turtle84 like this.
  15. Kiante

    Kiante Team Owner

    It might be similar to the FIA's methodology of keeping track of wind-tunnel time in this article, there is a formula used to keep track of wind-tunnel time:
    Keep track of how much time, how much data is used, etc.

    Page 2 is the older formula used from 15-17. Page 3 displays an up to date formula, my bad wrong page.
  16. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Staffed by NASCAR
    Speedbowl14 likes this.
  17. Whiskyb

    Whiskyb Team Owner

    It seems there are only 4 approved wind tunnels. Not sure if any of the ones listed belong to teams, most likely the Penske one does
  18. Turtle84

    Turtle84 gained a step

    Build your own secret wind tunnel and dominate.
    JohnHill likes this.
  19. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

  20. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Team Owner

    If a team owns a wind tunnel I think its pretty hard for NASCAR to say, "yeah well that thing that you spent millions on, you can't really use it that much anymore"
  21. Ventisca

    Ventisca Team Owner

    Cat and mouse games as the Teams work with and around the new rules.

    It would be even better if we could see the games being played while NASCAR attempts to police and enforce their rules.
  22. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    Is Ganassi's coast-down tunnel on the clock?
    Mike Crayne likes this.
  23. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Which teams own tunnels?
  24. machinistman3

    machinistman3 Team Owner

    Don’t worry they’ll work on the honor system.
    Speedbowl14 likes this.
  25. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    Looks like they are trying to cut out the manufacturer wind tunnel testing for next year. As I have read it, the Manufacturers buy up the wind tunnel time and dole it out to the teams. Wind tunnel testing can run upwards of $8000 an hour.
  26. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    Last edited: Oct 2, 2019
    Charlie Spencer and Speedbowl14 like this.
  27. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Those of you wondering how it will be policed, it will be and the ramifications of trying to circumvent those rules will be on par with running an oversized engine, soaked tires and hot fuel. Devastating to say the least.
  28. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    A lot of this was requested by the owners so they dont have a problem with it.
  29. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Fixed that for you
  30. wi_racefan

    wi_racefan Team Owner

    Unfortunately most of these cost saving rule changes just end up being now I have more money to spend elsewhere

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    JohnHill likes this.
  31. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    The vast majority of teams aren't thinking that I would believe and the large teams and OEM's have budgets that need to be approved
  32. Turtle84

    Turtle84 gained a step

    150 hours at $8K per hour is 1.2 million a year. Why not ban wind tunnel testing? Since cutting cost is main priority.
    Charlie Spencer and LewTheShoe like this.
  33. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    This is why they invented manufacturers.

    Have they been mentioned anywhere regarding reporting and compliance?
  34. ReturnTrip

    ReturnTrip Team Owner

    Stop making sense. They need to spend money making a 3400lb turd with 550hp aerodynamic with a 10 inch spoiler out back.
  35. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    That same car was called the "Twisted Sister" and it made Nascar a fortune and built the fan base
    to its highest. It was the modern car and CEO Brian that made it collapse.
    All the fans that keep clamoring for more speed forget that slow speeds at short tracks also built the huge fan base.
  36. ReturnTrip

    ReturnTrip Team Owner

    I'm thinking this is the final year or two for major wind tunnel testing before spec bodies squash the need for it.
    Team Penske likes this.
  37. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    dream on
  38. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    number or hours in the wind tunnel = how fast they run

    LewTheShoe likes this.
  39. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    Here is the reason, it isn't Nascar but the team owners, money also it looks like


    Even if not everyone agrees on the changes to the racing product for intermediate tracks, everyone seems to agree that the high downforce has had a significant negative effect on short tracks and road courses.

    The reason NASCAR didn’t order a reduction in downforce for short tracks and road courses for 2020 is the same reason why it didn’t for 2019: team owners.

    The team owners did not want to develop two aero packages simultaneously, in addition to two different engine packages.
    LewTheShoe and gnomesayin like this.
  40. hidesert cowboy

    hidesert cowboy Team Owner

    I think the short track and road course rules are fine. I think they should also use those rules at darlington and pocono. The iroc package ie the low hp,package Also doesn’t race well on more abrasive 1.5 mile tracks either

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