Rule Changes NASCAR wants them a bit More Racey

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FlFlash

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NASCAR to implement new rules for less downforce: Trying to reduce downforce and the chance of cars becoming airborne, NASCAR will implement a pair of rules changes for Sprint Cup teams that may also produce more passing. One change will go into effect starting next week at Charlotte Motor Speedway. The side skirts-the body of the car between the wheels-will be higher above the ground, meaning more air will run underneath the car. Currently, the skirts must be 3 to 4.5 inches off the ground on both sides of the car. Starting next week, they must be 4 to 4.5 inches off the ground on the right side and 4.5 to 5 inches on the left side. Teams tested with the shorter side skirts during recent Goodyear tire tests. For tracks 2 miles or larger, NASCAR will use its longer "shark fin"-a panel that runs alongside the rear window and decklid of the car-that has been used at Daytona and Talladega to keep cars from getting airborne. On the short tracks, it will remain a minimum 17 inches long while they must reach all the way from the top of the car to the spoiler on tracks 2 miles or longer. This also will decrease the potential of car liftoff, which could have been an issue at some of the most recently repaved tracks-the 2.5-mile track at Pocono and 2-mile track at Michigan.(Sporting News)(5-12-2012)

From: http://www.jayski.com/cupnews.htm
 
Basically they are trying to get air under the cars in an effort reduce aero push.
 
I agree with what Larry Mac said, they'll figure it out in the wind tunnel. I like the changes though and hope it helps.
 
It seems like everytime Brad wins a race, they rip up, repave or change the rules. It's a conspiracy I tell ya'. ;)
 
racer8 said:
Set the rules at the beginning of the season and leave them alone.
They have made numerous changes in past years to cut costs yet they make mid season changes that are a burden for low budget teams.
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Unfortunately the rules set for the plate race with regard to the cooling system caused several premature engine failures. I don't think that was NASCAR's intention. The future changes are a direct result of NASCAR recognizing their mistake. Nobody wants to go out there and blow up early because they're being aggressive and trying to race with a BS plate package.
 
:cheers:
racer8 said:
Set the rules at the beginning of the season and leave them alone.
They have made numerous changes in past years to cut costs yet they make mid season changes that are a burden for low budget teams.
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Am I just reading these rule changes improperly? I thought these were being made for safety reasons because of what they've learned about the car. Why would anyone be opposed to that?
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Am I just reading these rule changes improperly? I thought these were being made for safety reasons because of what they've learned about the car. Why would anyone be opposed to that?
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People are upset because some people get upset about everything.

The side skirt heights are for competition improvements. The shark fin adjustments are for safety.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Am I just reading these rule changes improperly? I thought these were being made for safety reasons because of what they've learned about the car. Why would anyone be opposed to that?
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Exactly. They're going to hit 215-220mph at Michigan. The smallest little contact could easily send a car in the stands.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I'm hoping against hope that they do something about the cooling restrictions before Daytona comes up this summer.
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I tried to warn them. :D

Keselowski said he didn't feel that the new changes would do much to help the racing. He's hopeful this is just the beginning of reducing the aero dependance. Me too.
 
Truex Jr. says he doesn't feel a big difference with the new aero package. Says the track feels rougher.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Truex Jr. says he doesn't feel a big difference with the new aero package. Says the track feels rougher.
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Probably because he's running softer springs and really into the bumpstops now.

The rule changes where made for safety reasons. After NASCAR learned a few things testing the 2013 car they decided to implement them on the current car. The "Sharkfin" change won't show up until your in yaw and is an understandable change for Safety.
I don't completely understand the side skirt rule? The side skirt clearence is made static so the teams will simply run softer springs to allow enough suspension travel for the skirts to seal on the track at speed. The only tracks that should see a real effect from this rule are the tracks where spring rates are spec'd by the rules.
 
FlFlash said:
I don't completely understand the side skirt rule? The side skirt clearence is made static so the teams will simply run softer springs to allow enough suspension travel for the skirts to seal on the track at speed. The only tracks that should see a real effect from this rule are the tracks where spring rates are spec'd by the rules.
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At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all........teams already seal the splitter to the track. So without a rule change on the splitter specs, or spring and shock rules, the cars sides will sit higher off the track and allow more 'clean' air to pass to the car behind. This MAY result in less aero push and more passing.

Personally, I don't think it's enough, but it's a move in the right direction that NASCAR may modify slowly.
 
FenderBumper said:
At the risk of sounding like a know-it-all........teams already seal the splitter to the track. So without a rule change on the splitter specs, or spring and shock rules, the cars sides will sit higher off the track and allow more 'clean' air to pass to the car behind. This MAY result in less aero push and more passing.

Personally, I don't think it's enough, but it's a move in the right direction that NASCAR may modify slowly.
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Thats just it in order to easily circumvent the new side skirt rule all you have to do is adjust your bumpstop heights and run a softer spring set up and the cars side skirts are right back down on the track sealing the underbody and making downforce. The rule is not going to have much of an effect on anything.
 
FlFlash said:
Thats just it in order to easily circumvent the new side skirt rule all you have to do is adjust your bumpstop heights and run a softer spring set up and the cars side skirts are right back down on the track sealing the underbody and making downforce. The rule is not going to have much of an effect on anything.
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How will that work? Lowering a car a inch using soft springs? A spring that soft is going to have a major effect on handling. What are you going to do about thee front splitter? Then hope you're not under minimum height if they check you post race.
 
The problem is na$car always dives head first into the pool without checking to see if there's water in it. When they reduced the grille opening to break up the tandem did anyone in the room say "hey, it gets real hot here when we run in Juuuuly"?
Thought Goodyear was developing a new tire, taller and narrower, that was going to solve all of the problems of the COT?
 
SST55 said:
How will that work? Lowering a car a inch using soft springs? A spring that soft is going to have a major effect on handling. What are you going to do about thee front splitter? Then hope you're not under minimum height if they check you post race.
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I'm not sure what FlFlash is missing here. In order to lower the side, you have to lower the splitter. Since teams already set the splitter on the ground, there is zero room to lower it further. The relation between splitter and side skirts has changed, NOT the relation of the splitter to the ground.
 
Sorry maybe I've went to far over your heads? I'll try to explain but a teacher I'm not.

It just takes a little time to adjust static ride height and running ride height seperately by useing spring rates and jack bolts, been doing it for years.
At rest there's no downforce pushing or G-force pulling the car down. So at rest you can use a lighter spring with more turns down on the jack bolt or overall longer length to acheive the same ride height you had with a heavier spring and less down turns on the jack bolt or shorter length, thats how we adjust ride height for various spring combos, nothing new.
At speed with the aero downforce and g-force in the corners the lower spring rate will allow more travel and lower your ride height. Once you find the spring ratio/ spring height combo you need to set your ride height static and at speed it's a simple matter to set the bump stops and down travel. Getting it to where the driver likes the "feel" is the trick.
 
I can't post a pic from here but if you go back and look at the Cup cars from the late 80"s early 90's while NASCAR was trying to achieve parity between manufactures by adjusting front spoiler heights and rear spoiler heights you'll see some examples of cars with jacked around spring rates to overcome spoiler height and air dam heights rules. The Gran Prix's where especially jacked around.
 
FlFlash said:
Sorry maybe I've went to far over your heads? I'll try to explain but a teacher I'm not.
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Are you getting snarky with me? That's not good to do when you're confused about the rule. "Teams tested with the shorter side skirts ...".

SHORTER side skirts NOT higher CAR. They aren't moving the CAR height up, they are creating a gap by SHORTENING the side skirts.

The splitter isn't being moved by this rule, so there's no sense in doing all those crazy adjustments to.........put the splitter back on the ground.

I know, I know. I shouldn't be such a know-it-all blah, blah, blah.
 
Forget the splitter for a minute. These guys are now calling for air pressure adjustment down to 1/4 of a pound for better handling. Air pressure is in effect a spring rate, more air, more spring. So what effect can we look forward too if it comes to dropping spring rates say just 100 pounds on all four corners?
 
BobbyFord said:
Nobody wants to go out there and blow up early because they're being aggressive and trying to race with a BS plate package.
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But NA$$CAR, the TV Networks and apparently, the Fans, love it when 10 or 12 cars are destroyed in the Big One! If an engine blows, the engine is replaced costing, what, $80K or so? If an engine stays together long enough for a car to be totaled in a dramatic multi-car tangle, that's what, $250K or so?
The PLATE is what is BS!

FlFlash said:
Sorry maybe I've went to far over your heads? I'll try to explain but a teacher I'm not.
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What you are not getting, Flash, is that the splitter height is NOT changing. A car cannot go any lower when the splitter is on the ground. And when the splitter is on the ground (and can't go any lower) the side skirt, having been shortened, will no longer be as close to the track surface, thereby reducing the "ground effect" effect.

I'm all for eliminating the side skirts and the splitter altogether. Raise the cars up higher, eliminate the bump stops and thereby greatly reduce the dependence on AERO.
 
I've found that some just do not understand and I lack the time to educate them so I move on.

BTW. Check into the various heights before this rule went into effect it may help your understanding.
 
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Don't waste your time Greg. Some people are emotionally incapable of admiting their errors.
 
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