severe penalties against Gibbs

kelloggs5TLfan

kelloggs5TLfan

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http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/bg/08/20/jlogano.tstewart.jgr.penalties/index.html
By Official Release
August 20, 2008
11:29 AM EDT



DAYTONA BEACH, Fla. -- NASCAR announced on Wednesday that the Nos. 18 and 20 teams in the Nationwide Series have been penalized due to rule violations discovered by NASCAR inspectors prior to post-race testing on the chassis dynamometer Aug. 16 at Michigan.

Both the Nos. 18 and 20 cars were found to be in violation of:

• Section 12-4-A (actions detrimental to stock car racing); 8-9 (competitive analysis -- from time to time, NASCAR may determine, in the interest of competition, that it is necessary or appropriate to undertake an analysis of the performance capabilities of a car, car part, component or equipment. The Competitor shall take whatever steps are requested by NASCAR Officials for this purpose. NASCAR also has the right to seal or impound cars, car parts, components and/or equipment for this purpose);

• Section 12-4-Q (1): (car, car parts, components and/or equipment used that do not conform to NASCAR rules, detailed in Section 20A of the 2008 NASCAR Rule Book, or has not been approved by NASCAR prior to the event, or is not required for the normal functional operation of the race car, or has been altered to detract from or compromise its integrity or effectiveness, whether operational or not);

• Section 12-4-K: (when NASCAR Officials mandate inspection during the Event, if any car, car parts, components, and/or equipment which have been used in the Event are taken from the racing premises without permission of a NASCAR Official, or are tampered with by any member of the team or anyone associated with the team: Magnetic spacer attached under the gas pedal with the intent of compromising the chassis dynamometer test).

Both of the drivers -- Joey Logano of the No. 18 and Tony Stewart of the No. 20 -- have been penalized with the loss of 150 championship driver points and placed on probation until Dec. 31. Joe Gibbs, owner of both of the cars, has likewise been penalized 150 championship owner points for each of those entries.

Both crew chiefs -- Jason Ratcliff of the No. 18 and Dave Rogers of the No. 20 -- have been fined $50,000 and indefinitely suspended.

From the No. 18 team, car chief Dorian Thorsen, engine tuner Michael Johnson, and crew member Toby Bigelow have been placed on indefinite suspension.

From the No. 20 team, car chief Richard Bray and engine tuner Dan Bajek have been indefinitely suspended.

In addition, the entire Nos. 18 and 20 Nationwide Series teams have been placed on NASCAR probation until Dec. 31.
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Penalties
Owner Joe Gibbs loss of 150 owner points for Nos. 18 and 20 cars
Driver Joey Logano loss of 150 driver points, probation until Dec. 31
Driver Tony Stewart loss of 150 driver points, probation until Dec. 31
No. 18 crew chief Jason Ratcliff fined $50,000 and indefinitely suspended
No. 20 crew chief Dave Rogers fined $50,000 and indefinitely suspended
No. 18 car chief Dorian Thorsen placed on indefinite suspension
No. 18 engine tuner Michael Johnson placed on indefinite suspension
No. 18 crew member Toby Bigelow placed on indefinite suspension
No. 20 car chief Richard Bray placed on indefinite suspension
No. 20 engine tuner Dan Bajek placed on indefinite suspension
No. 18 team probation until Dec. 31
No. 20 team probation until Dec. 31

• Related: JGR faces penalties after Nationwide post inspection
 
kelloggs5TLfan said:
http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/headlines/bg/08/20/jlogano.tstewart.jgr.penalties/index.html
By Official Release
August 20, 2008
11:29 AM EDT





Penalties
Owner Joe Gibbs loss of 150 owner points for Nos. 18 and 20 cars
Driver Joey Logano loss of 150 driver points, probation until Dec. 31
Driver Tony Stewart loss of 150 driver points, probation until Dec. 31
No. 18 crew chief Jason Ratcliff fined $50,000 and indefinitely suspended
No. 20 crew chief Dave Rogers fined $50,000 and indefinitely suspended
No. 18 car chief Dorian Thorsen placed on indefinite suspension
No. 18 engine tuner Michael Johnson placed on indefinite suspension
No. 18 crew member Toby Bigelow placed on indefinite suspension
No. 20 car chief Richard Bray placed on indefinite suspension
No. 20 engine tuner Dan Bajek placed on indefinite suspension
No. 18 team probation until Dec. 31
No. 20 team probation until Dec. 31

• Related: JGR faces penalties after Nationwide post inspection
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Dam! All those indefinate suspensions really jump out at ya!
 
VaDirt said:
Dam! All those indefinate suspensions really jump out at ya!
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I think Gibbs should have been told not to bring the 18 and 20 to Bristol. This would get the sponsors attention and its thru a potential loss of sponsor money that this type of cheating will be stopped. And this was cheating at its core. It wasn't to gain an advantage on the track but to try and influence Nascar in their decisions on horsepower. That goes to the heart of Nascar.
Now if they want to remove the rules and let them drive what they bring thats an entirely different matter. But someone had to do a lot of engineering to determine the proper thickness of the magnetic shim to reduce the HP to a certain number.
 
welp, i think needless to say, nascar wasnt too happy.

i agree, the word indefinite sure does jump at ya.
 
Statement from Joe Gibbs on NASCAR penalties
Wednesday, Aug. 20, 2008
Text of a statement from Joe Gibbs regarding NASCAR penalties issued to Joe Gibbs Racing's Nos. 18 and 20 Nationwide Series teams:

"First, we want to apologize to NASCAR, all of our partners, all of our families at JGR, and all of our fans for the unfortunate incident that took place this past weekend in Michigan with our two Nationwide teams. A poor decision was made by some key members of our organization, and 100 percent of the blame rests with us.

"In 17 years we have never had any representative of Joe Gibbs Racing knowingly act outside of NASCAR's rules, and that is something we consider essential to how we operate on a daily basis. What we have determined is that these individuals involved used extremely poor judgment in attempting to alter the results of NASCAR's dyno test following Saturday's Nationwide Series race in Michigan. Although in no way was anything done that might have altered the race outcome, these JGR employees attempted to circumvent the NASCAR rule book and that is unacceptable.

"We take full responsibility and accept the penalties NASCAR has levied against us today. We had come to the conclusion that we would add to any NASCAR imposed penalties with the minimum being suspension for the remainder of the season for those involved, including our two Nationwide Series crew chiefs. There will also be an additional monetary fine beyond the amount announced by NASCAR earlier today, which will be the responsibility of those involved.

"We are, however, disappointed that NASCAR chose to place our drivers on probation, as they had no knowledge or involvement of this incident.

"On behalf of everyone at Joe Gibbs Racing, we apologize again for this most unfortunate situation."
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The "loss of points" part is BS.
The drivers did not have anything to do with it and it was not during competition.
Communism.
 
I don't understand why the penalties are so stiff.

Why is this SO different from any other incident of cheating?

:confused:
 
It wasn't cheating on the track so why hose the drivers off and take away points? :confused:

They should just fine the hell out of them and suspend those involved.
 
zevious said:
I don't understand why the penalties are so stiff.

Why is this SO different from any other incident of cheating?

:confused:
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Easy answer. This magnet-shim deal was a retaliatory instance because of NASCAR making a rule penalizing Toyota for winning.
 
Did'nt the magnet shim have to put on there by the driver? NO ONE is allowed to touch the cars after the race and those shims was'nt on there during the race so the drivers had to put those shims on during the cool down lap.
 
steveluvs3 said:
Did'nt the magnet shim have to put on there by the driver? NO ONE is allowed to touch the cars after the race and those shims was'nt on there during the race so the drivers had to put those shims on during the cool down lap.
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NO, It was not the drivers who did this. A team member was basically caught doing it. (Probably the 7th guy listed on the suspension list and I believe from the 18 Nationwide car) He was supposedly retrieving the helmet and gloves. The fact that he took so long doing it was what made Nascar investigate.
 
barelypure said:
But someone had to do a lot of engineering to determine the proper thickness of the magnetic shim to reduce the HP to a certain number.
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Not really.

Put it on a dyno, press the gas pedal until the dyno reads their magic number and, viola, done. You have determined the proper thickness of the magnetic spacer in no time.
 
zevious said:
NO, It was not the drivers who did this. A team member was basically caught doing it. (Probably the 7th guy listed on the suspension list and I believe from the 18 Nationwide car) He was supposedly retrieving the helmet and gloves. The fact that he took so long doing it was what made Nascar investigate.
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We're working on a story on it at RacingForTheWin.com.

The drivers did not do it. Another team member did. The drivers were placed on probation as was the rest of the "team." Drivers are part of the team.

The points were docked from the drivers just like points were docked from the Hendrick drivers at infineon last year and the Haas teams this year. NASCAR has been pretty consistent on this, or, er, um, well, as consistent as NASCAR can be. ;)
 
lets see if NASCAR can get some balls and suspend a cup crew chief indefinitly the next time somebody tries something like this on a cup car.

The only cup suspensions like that i can think of are drug related (Hmiel).
 
basscatcher89 said:
lets see if NASCAR can get some balls and suspend a cup crew chief indefinitly the next time somebody tries something like this on a cup car.

The only cup suspensions like that i can think of are drug related (Hmiel).
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Shane Hmiel was Busch, as was Kevin Grubb. Aaron Fike was a CTS driver (who, btw, has not been permanently banned from NASCAR like Hmiel).
 
I believe Hmiel was starting to run some cup when he got busted. And I think Hmiel is as good as gone permanently because they said it was his second time being busted by NASCAR for drugs.
 
barelypure said:
I think Gibbs should have been told not to bring the 18 and 20 to Bristol. This would get the sponsors attention and its thru a potential loss of sponsor money that this type of cheating will be stopped. And this was cheating at its core. It wasn't to gain an advantage on the track but to try and influence Nascar in their decisions on horsepower. That goes to the heart of Nascar.
Now if they want to remove the rules and let them drive what they bring thats an entirely different matter. But someone had to do a lot of engineering to determine the proper thickness of the magnetic shim to reduce the HP to a certain number.
Click to expand...

I was thinking the same thing , unless it was a matter of trial and error as to how far the pedal needed to go to achieve th right amount of HP.
 
Ok now think about this....and we were talking about this at work the other day....why penalize or should i say take away HP from Toyota in the first place? They engineered a more potent engine, let the other teams catch up to them with their on inovations and try to get theirs up to snuff. This entire incident would of never happened if Nascar hadn't taken away the horses from Toyota in the first place. Now Gibbs has egg on his face, his entire Nationwide operation is in trouble, what next? I though racing was all about going faster than the other guy? How you going to do this if your cars are all equal, this whole thing stinks if you ask me and Nascar is to blame.:(
 
JD was just on the Nationwide prerace show doing his contrite song and dance. This has all the elements of a good Watergate-style mystery... "Who knew what and when?"
 
Mopardh9 said:
Ok now think about this....and we were talking about this at work the other day....why penalize or should i say take away HP from Toyota in the first place? They engineered a more potent engine, let the other teams catch up to them with their on inovations and try to get theirs up to snuff. This entire incident would of never happened if Nascar hadn't taken away the horses from Toyota in the first place. Now Gibbs has egg on his face, his entire Nationwide operation is in trouble, what next? I though racing was all about going faster than the other guy? How you going to do this if your cars are all equal, this whole thing stinks if you ask me and Nascar is to blame.:(
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Once Nascar started down the road of rules restricting what they could and couldn't do, years ago, that's a hard door to close. If Gibbs could show that the shims were in place during the race then no penalty but if the shims went on after the race then that was something they planned. It is outside the rules they all agreed to play under so getting slapped down may make an example to others. But, yeah they need to do the same to Cup.
 
barelypure said:
Once Nascar started down the road of rules restricting what they could and couldn't do, years ago, that's a hard door to close. If Gibbs could show that the shims were in place during the race then no penalty but if the shims went on after the race then that was something they planned. It is outside the rules they all agreed to play under so getting slapped down may make an example to others. But, yeah they need to do the same to Cup.
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I think you guys missed my point, why after the intial HP dyno test , which was before Gateway i believe, did Toyota have to give up the 15 or so HP? So their engines had more, so what, like i said if they wanted everything equal Nascar should start dealing out the engines in crates to the teams!:mad:
 
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